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Broken Mag wire

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jeff(at)rmmm.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:10 am Post subject: Broken Mag wire

Hi Guys,

I just was about to go flying this morning to test a few changes I've 

made as my bird has not been cooling in this heat well. As I did the 

run-up the right mag didn't drop any RPM's but the right did as it 

should. My temps started climbing again so I went right back to the 

hanger. The engine didn't want to shut down so I had to starve it of 

fuel.  I pulled off the cowl right away and as I examined the mag 

connections one of the wires just snapped off only about an inch from 

the mag's side of the connection. The wire was very brittle and I'm 

kind of surprised it's not of better quality. Has this happened to 

anyone else and has anyone been able to fix it without ordering a new 

mag itself?

Jeff R.

A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 85 hours and still having cooling issues.

garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:36 am Post subject: Broken Mag wire

Jeff,  I've had the "mag" wires break at least  5 times in the 7 years / 500 hours I've been flying my 914.  There is alot  of vibration on the ignition modules which I suppose causes the breaks.   Although, the wire insulation and the wires themselves seem to be of inferior  quality.  I've spliced them together so many times, I'm down to a 1/4 inch  stub exiting the ignition module.  The next break and I'll be out of luck  and will have to purchase a new module.  Last time I checked they cost  about $700 each.  Ouch!  I have no suggestions on how to keep "junk"  from breaking.  Good luck.........it happens to all 914's.

  

 Garry Stout

  

 [quote]   ---

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:43 am Post subject: Broken Mag wire

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Jeff,

 If the mag wire was not supported well at the crimp connector, due to  the crimping process and or soldering, and the continuous flexing of the wire,  it will fail due to fatique.  If it failed between the connector and the  mag box, that is a new one to me.  The ones I see are from the mag  wires installed by the owner going to the mag connector.  Those are cheap  and easy connections to replace.  The older engines and new engines have  different style connectors so be sure to get the right one.  

  

 If in fact it is a broken factory installed wire, send out pictures to your  Rotax dealer and request a product deficiency report.  They have pdf files  on line and in the owners manual.  If you can info everyone I would  appreciate that, as this should be corrected via an AD.

  

 Bud Yerly

 Custom Flight Creations 

 customflightcreations.com

 ---

rehn(at)rockisland.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:09 am Post subject: Broken Mag wire

Hi Jeff  

 This happens due to all the vibrations and the wires fatiguing and finally break. The best solution is to tie wrap as much as you can to limit the wires from moving around. I think the newer wiring system is superior and addressed this problem. I’ve had pretty good luck by keeping the wires tight and inspect often to insure things are staying tight. Good luck.  

Jerry  

   

         

  

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JEFF ROBERTS

 Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:09 AM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Broken Mag wire  

  

   

Hi Guys,

 I just was about to go flying this morning to test a few changes I've made as my bird has not been cooling in this heat well. As I did the run-up the right mag didn't drop any RPM's but the right did as it should. My temps started climbing again so I went right back to the hanger. The engine didn't want to shut down so I had to starve it of fuel. I pulled off the cowl right away and as I examined the mag connections one of the wires just snapped off only about an inch from the mag's side of the connection. The wire was very brittle and I'm kind of surprised it's not of better quality. Has this happened to anyone else and has anyone been able to fix it without ordering a new mag itself?

 <?fontfamily><?param Helvetica>Jeff R.

 A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 85 hours and still having cooling issues.

 <?/fontfamily>

 <?pre><?b><?font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier =============== Features Subscriptions page, Photoshare, and href="http://www.matronics.com/navigator?europa-list">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<?/a> the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com<?/a> ===========

 

   <?/b><?/font><?/pre><?/body><?/html>

        [quote][b]

topglock(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:31 pm Post subject: Broken Mag wire

Jeff,

 

 Fix the wire with solder, if you can, then tie them down at several places.  Any reinforcement that you can add to the bundle will help...

 

 Jeff - Baby Blue

 308 hours

 

 Garry wrote: [quote]            Jeff,  I've had the "mag" wires break at least 5 times in the 7 years / 500 hours I've been flying my 914.  There is alot of vibration on the ignition modules which I suppose causes the breaks.  Although, the wire insulation and the wires themselves seem to be of inferior quality.  I've spliced them together so many times, I'm down to a 1/4 inch stub exiting the ignition module.  The next break and I'll be out of luck and will have to purchase a new module.  Last time I checked they cost about $700 each.  Ouch!  I have no suggestions on how to keep "junk" from breaking.  Good luck.........it happens to all 914's.

    

   Garry Stout

    

    	  Quote: 	
		       ----- Original Message ----- 

     From:     JEFF ROBERTS (jeff(at)rmmm.net) 

     To:     europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com) 

     Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 11:08 AM

     Subject: Broken Mag wire

     

     

 Hi Guys,

 I just was about to go flying this morning to test a few changes I've made as my bird has not been cooling in this heat well. As I did the run-up the right mag didn't drop any RPM's but the right did as it should. My temps started climbing again so I went right back to the hanger. The engine didn't want to shut down so I had to starve it of fuel. I pulled off the cowl right away and as I examined the mag connections one of the wires just snapped off only about an inch from the mag's side of the connection. The wire was very brittle and I'm kind of surprised it's not of better quality. Has this happened to anyone else and has anyone been able to fix it without ordering a new mag itself?

 Jeff R.

 A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 85 hours and still having cooling issues.

 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List the Web http://forums.matronics.com ===========

   



 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

 href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com







  	
 [b]

rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:40 pm Post subject: Broken Mag wire

"I have no suggestions on how to keep "junk" from breaking.  Good

luck.........it happens to all 914's."



I have not yet viabrated the ignition modules on my 914 to see if I can

break the wires, but I am hoping the viabration dampening that Rotax

incorporated (I think is retrofittable to older engines) helps.



Ron P.

jeff(at)rmmm.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: Broken Mag wire

Thanks Bud and all else!

I have fixed the wire by soldering on a 6 inch or so pig tail of high 

quality aircraft wire then crimped them to the Mag wires going to the 

switch. I did away with the rotax connectors and per all your advices 

tie wrapped them securely so there are no lose wires. All works well.

On my cooling issues it's just a mater of too high of pressure in the 

lower cowl not letting the upper air from the top intakes down through. 

Until now the lower NACA was just shooting air into the lower cowl with 

no direction causing the this high pressure. John Hurst told me some 

time ago the demonstrator was set up this way and it was fine. This 

overheating never showed until this hot Tennessee heat wave hit. Again 

I believe I'll have it solved. I have glassed in the lower NACA to 

receive a 2 inch scat tube. This I will run to the upper part of the 

cowl. I hope it eliminates the high, lower cowl pressure and increases 

the top air pressure to force more air cooling down through the 

cylinders.  I should have it all fixed in time for next weekend's 

fly-in at Rough River.

I am looking forward to seeing old friends and some new ones. It's 

amazing how many people we all have become friends with over this forum 

and this is a chance to finally put faces to them.

If there are any Europa flyers or builders that have not committed to 

coming this weekend to Rough River KY. I would encourage you to do so.  

Weather permitting of course.

Best Regards,



Jeff R.

A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 90 hours and climbing.

On Aug 22, 2007, at 12:41 PM, ALAN YERLY wrote:



[quote] Jeff,

 If the mag wire was not supported well at the crimp connector, due to 

 the crimping process and or soldering, and the continuous flexing of 

 the wire, it will fail due to fatique.  If it failed between the 

 connector and the mag box, that is a new one to me.  The ones I see 

 are from the mag wires installed by the owner going to the mag 

 connector.  Those are cheap and easy connections to replace.  The 

 older engines and new engines have different style connectors so be 

 sure to get the right one. 

  

 If in fact it is a broken factory installed wire, send out pictures to 

 your Rotax dealer and request a product deficiency report.  They have 

 pdf files on line and in the owners manual.  If you can info everyone 

 I would appreciate that, as this should be corrected via an AD.

  

 Bud Yerly

 Custom Flight Creations

 customflightcreations.com

 ---

sidsel.svein(at)oslo.onli
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 11:03 pm Post subject: Broken Mag wire

Jeff,



I hope the fix you describe will solve the cooling issue.



When I did the firewall-forward work, Andy Draper (at that time eith EA2004) 

recommended that I closed the lower NACA - it should never have been there 

for the 912/912S installations, he said, only for the 914's turbo.  As I 

recall our conversation, his point was that all this additional air coming 

in at a place where it does not do any good for 912/912S, competes with the 

cooling air coming in through the cowl front openings in getting out again. 

In other words, the more places you let air in, the less air actually comes 

in through each inlet when the outlet area is not increased.  The NACA 

therefore effectively reduces the air flow through the cowl front, which is 

the air flow intended to cool the cylinders.



Your fix should therefore improve things, I believe.



 	  Quote: 	
		  From what I can read between the lines, you don't have the Rotax glassfibre 

cooling shroud over the cylinders and its (third) opening in the cowl front?
	




As air in = air out, I trust you have already ensured that you have maximum 

possible outlet area aft/below, without reducing the air flow through the 

coolers?



Regards,

Svein

LN-SKJ



Jeff wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   On my cooling issues it's just a mater of too high of pressure in the 

 lower cowl not letting the upper air from the top intakes down through. 

 Until now the lower NACA was just shooting air into the lower cowl with no 

 direction causing the this high pressure. John Hurst told me some time ago 

 the demonstrator was set up this way and it was fine. This overheating 

 never showed until this hot Tennessee heat wave hit. Again I believe I'll 

 have it solved. I have glassed in the lower NACA to receive a 2 inch scat 

 tube. This I will run to the upper part of the cowl. I hope it eliminates 

 the high, lower cowl pressure and increases the top air pressure to force 

 more air cooling down through the cylinders.  I should have it all fixed 

 in time for next weekend's fly-in at Rough River.

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:51 pm Post subject: Broken Mag wire

Jeff

The thing to remember above all else is that ALL the cooling air should

go throught the radiators or the cylinder fins. Mainly the radiators.

(Not much heat comes through the cylinder walls, its all generated in

the head and the top of the pistons. So it heats the oil and the coolant.)

You should seal all the gaps round the radiators.

If you compare the area between the fins with the size of the gaps

around the rads, then consider the dragginess of the finning its not

surprising too much air leaks past and does no cooling at all.

Have a look at the cooling air inlet on this Long EZ, this efficiently

cools a 160 hp Lycosaurus and only needs about 8 square inches a side to

cool all four cylinders. The key is pressure recovery and good sealing.

High pressure to force the air through the fins and nowhere else.

The other pik is the first Europa fly in at rough river, October 06!

Wonderful weekend, except the Kentucky beer isn't much good, neither is

Kentucky wine. Kentucky bourbon is OK but they aren't aloud to sell it

to you!}}



Graham



Sidsel & Svein Johnsen wrote:



  > 

<sidsel.svein(at)oslo.online.no>

  >

  > Jeff,

  >

  > I hope the fix you describe will solve the cooling issue.

  >

  > When I did the firewall-forward work, Andy Draper (at that time eith

EA2004) recommended that I closed the lower NACA - it should never have

been there for the 912/912S installations, he said, only for the 914's

turbo.  As I recall our conversation, his point was that all this

additional air coming in at a place where it does not do any good for

912/912S, competes with the cooling air coming in through the cowl front

openings in getting out again. As air in = air out, I trust you have

already ensured that you have maximum possible outlet area aft/below,

without reducing the air flow through the coolers?

  >

  > Regards,

  > Svein

  > LN-SKJ

  >

  > Jeff wrote:

  >

  >> On my cooling issues it's just a mater of too high of pressure in

the lower cowl not letting the upper air from the top intakes down through.



Sidsel & Svein Johnsen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <sidsel.svein(at)oslo.online.no>

 

 Jeff,

 

 I hope the fix you describe will solve the cooling issue.

 

 When I did the firewall-forward work, Andy Draper (at that time eith 

 EA2004) recommended that I closed the lower NACA - it should never have 

 been there for the 912/912S installations, he said, only for the 914's 

 turbo.  As I recall our conversation, his point was that all this 

 additional air coming in at a place where it does not do any good for 

 912/912S, competes with the cooling air coming in through the cowl front 

 openings in getting out again. In other words, the more places you let 

 air in, the less air actually comes in through each inlet when the 

 outlet area is not increased.  The NACA therefore effectively reduces 

 the air flow through the cowl front, which is the air flow intended to 

 cool the cylinders.

 

 Your fix should therefore improve things, I believe.

 

> From what I can read between the lines, you don't have the Rotax 

> glassfibre 

 

 cooling shroud over the cylinders and its (third) opening in the cowl 

 front?

 

 As air in = air out, I trust you have already ensured that you have 

 maximum possible outlet area aft/below, without reducing the air flow 

 through the coolers?

 

 Regards,

 Svein

 LN-SKJ

 

 Jeff wrote:

 

> On my cooling issues it's just a mater of too high of pressure in the 

> lower cowl not letting the upper air from the top intakes down 

> through. Until now the lower NACA was just shooting air into the lower 

> cowl with no direction causing the this high pressure. John Hurst told 

> me some time ago the demonstrator was set up this way and it was fine. 

> This overheating never showed until this hot Tennessee heat wave hit. 

> Again I believe I'll have it solved. I have glassed in the lower NACA 

> to receive a 2 inch scat tube. This I will run to the upper part of 

> the cowl. I hope it eliminates the high, lower cowl pressure and 

> increases the top air pressure to force more air cooling down through 

> the cylinders.  I should have it all fixed in time for next weekend's 

> fly-in at Rough River.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


	


-- 

Graham Singleton



Tel: +441629820187

Mob: +447739582005

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jeff(at)rmmm.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:45 pm Post subject: Broken Mag wire

On Aug 27, 2007, at 6:48 PM, Graham Singleton wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Wonderful weekend, except the Kentucky beer isn't much good, neither is

 Kentucky wine. Kentucky bourbon is OK but they aren't aloud to sell it

 to you!}}



Gram,
	


You are right, the Kentucky anything cannot compete with the Tennessee 

whisky. Anytime you want to make the treck over I'll be glad to 

introduce you to the best drink on the planet... a good ol Lynchburg 

lemonade.

Thanks,

Jeff R.

A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 90 hours and climbing slowly.

terrys(at)cisco.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:20 am Post subject: Broken Mag wire

There is one more thing that needs cooling air, the muffler, there is a

lot of heat dumped into the cowl at the muffler.  Cooling air needs to

be directed past the cylinders and then around the muffler to keep from

melting things under the cowl.



Regards,

Terry Seaver

A135 / N135TD

--

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:13 pm Post subject: Broken Mag wire

Terry

you are right. I didn't make my point clearly enough. The important 

thing is to achieve a good pressure difference between the upstream and 

downstream sides of the radiators. Cooling the muffler is also important 

but has to be treated as a separate issue. It's not practical to get a 

single stream of air to do all three efficiently under all conditions.

Graham



Terry Seaver (terrys) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 There is one more thing that needs cooling air, the muffler, there is a

 lot of heat dumped into the cowl at the muffler.  Cooling air needs to

 be directed past the cylinders and then around the muffler to keep from

 melting things under the cowl.

 

 Regards,

 Terry Seaver

 A135 / N135TD

 Jeff

 The thing to remember above all else is that ALL the cooling air should

 go throught the radiators or the cylinder fins. Mainly the radiators.

 (Not much heat comes through the cylinder walls, its all generated in

 the head and the top of the pistons. So it heats the oil and the

 coolant.) You should seal all the gaps round the radiators.

 

 Graham

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:50 pm Post subject: Broken Mag wire

Jeff

and if you treck over here I'll introduce you to good old Staffordshire 

beer. (just about equal to Slovakian beer, the real Budweiser! )

Graham



JEFF ROBERTS wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 

 On Aug 27, 2007, at 6:48 PM, Graham Singleton wrote:

 

>

> Wonderful weekend, except the Kentucky beer isn't much good, neither is

> Kentucky wine. Kentucky bourbon is OK but they aren't aloud to sell it

> to you!}}

hurstkr(at)redzone.com.au
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject: Broken Mag wire

 	  Quote: 	
		   and if you treck over here I'll introduce you to good old

Staffordshire 
	


beer. (just about equal to Slovakian beer, the real Budweiser! )

Graham



It's got nothing on our XXXX (pronounced Fourex) Graham,  XXXX will make

a sparrow fight an Emu ! !



Cheers

Kingsley



Do not archive

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:38 am Post subject: Broken Mag wire

Kingsley ole mate

that's a matter of a pinion or two! btw four ex- what?

Graham



Kingsley Hurst wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Staffordshire 

 beer. (just about equal to Slovakian beer, the real Budweiser! )

 Graham

 

 It's got nothing on our XXXX (pronounced Fourex) Graham,  XXXX will make

 a sparrow fight an Emu ! !

 

 Cheers

 Kingsley

hurstkr(at)redzone.com.au
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:29 pm Post subject: Broken Mag wire

 	  Quote: 	
		   Kingsley ole mate

that's a matter of a pinion or two! btw four ex- what?
	




Bitter ale mate, bitter ale.

I'll introduce it to you when you come over next time.



Cheers

K



Do not archive

karelvranken(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:43 pm Post subject: Broken Mag wire

Jeff,

Your are wright. During the Italian tour I not only could give a face to a 

well known name; thanks to the forum, but it also was an occasion to have a 

lot of fun.

To say it as once was said: never I flew so much with so many and never we 

were eating so much with so few. Drinking as I tought was a habit, but the 

heavenly nectars we sipped were numinous and numerous. This is for me the 

occasion to thank David Joyce for his excellent organisation, his unique 

feeling for good restaurants and his exceptionel nose for the best wines in 

the world. Last but not least, the sympathy and friendship that I (nearly 

deaf grandfather) received from the other strangers; David Corbett, 

Allisdair Milne, Jeanne and Richard Iddon, and our all Checz Ottokar were 

adorable. At the same time the message will say to those friends that I came 

home in good weather conditions and in good health.

Best regards,

Karel Vranken # 447 Mono F-PKRL now already 93 hours.



---

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