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IGSO 540 Lyc ?

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asgroup(at)tampabay.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:20 pm Post subject: IGSO 540 Lyc ?

All,



I posted some messages earlier this year about shopping for a  

Commander (a newbee), and got some great comments, which I appreciate.



Now, I've found an attractive plane with the IGSO 540s on them and am  

concerned about the cost of operating, maintenance and OH costs.



Can anyone comment, goods and bads?

Larry Olson

St. Pete

On Aug 8, 2007, at 3:56 PM, Bill Bow wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Well, it is finished.  As of Monday I became an ex-Commander  

 owner.  I wish my 500A had been what it was represented as when I  

 bought it as I would still own it today.



 I had written up a long diatribe, venting my anger and disgust with  

 a few of those involved in the Commander community.  However, I  

 have decided it would be counterproductive, and nobody really gives  

 a s---- anyway.  I have made a lot of good friends on this list  

 some that I will probably never meet. I do believe there are a lot  

 more good guys here than “gold diggers”.



 I will always remember the supportive words of one person on this  

 list “Commander ownership is not for everybody”.



 Well, it’s not for me.



 Cheers,



 Bill Bow



 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List _- 

 ============================================================

moe(at)rosspistons.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:37 am Post subject: IGSO 540 Lyc ?

Hi Larry,



Regarding the IGSO 540 Lycoming engines:



After flying about 800 hours in my 6800F(p) with these engines, here are a

few comments:



They are the most expensive six cylinder engines to overhaul that Lycoming

makes. Also, they are the shortest TBO.  Figure about 1,200 hours if flown

properly.  Figure between $ 42,000.00 and $ 60,000.00 each for a good major.

Do a quality overhaul with NEW cylinders.  At the same time be sure to have

the gear boxes completely rebuilt. The above figures should include a gear

drive rebuild.  If the engines are B1A engines with the 12 ignition coils

mounted up on top, Continental has an STC to convert them to conventional

mags.  This will be a much more trouble free system, and less expensive than

replace all of the low and high tension leads on the 12 coil set up.

Lycoming no longer has the leads available.



As far as driving a plane with these engines, a very special technique must

be learned.  Treat them right and they will do a good job for you.  380 HP

per wing is a wonderful thing, and the "cool factor" can't be beat.  As an

example for special driving, 1. never push the propeller levers foreword

when descending to land.  Your GUMPS check becomes a GUMS check.  If you

push foreword on the propeller levers you will kill the planetary gears in

short order.  Never idle or taxi at below 1,200 RPM (1,500 preferred).  If

you do the Simmonds injection system will surge and you can hear the gear

boxes rattling.  Again this destroys them. In most cases (in most planes) do

not use take off power to take off.  Unless it is a short track, and the air

is thin, or you are really heavy, the top of the green arc on both the RPM

and Manifold Pressure will still give you more power than any one else has,

and will extend the life of the engines big time.



If you seek instruction (this sounds "tacky") go fly with someone who has

paid the bills out of his (or her) own pocket for about 600 or more hours.

These engines require very special handling. Given the special handling

things will be just great!  



Having said all of the above, one additional comment should be made.  Some

time ago, I had an engine out on take off, 500 feet agl, fairly heavy, at

night.  After going to take off power on the good engine, and getting the

inoperative engine's propeller feathered, it pretty much became a non event.

With a smaller and weaker engine the results could have been quite

different. 



Personally, I would not swap my IGSO 540's for all of the Continentals that

you could stack in front of me. 



Moe Mills

N680RR

680F(p)



--

John Vormbaum

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 273
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:03 am Post subject: IGSO 540 Lyc ?

Wow Moe, nicely said! I think that about covers it....



/John



Moe - Ross Racing Pistons wrote:

[quote] 



 Hi Larry,



 Regarding the IGSO 540 Lycoming engines:



 After flying about 800 hours in my 6800F(p) with these engines, here are a

 few comments:



 They are the most expensive six cylinder engines to overhaul that Lycoming

 makes. Also, they are the shortest TBO.  Figure about 1,200 hours if flown

 properly.  Figure between $ 42,000.00 and $ 60,000.00 each for a good major.

 Do a quality overhaul with NEW cylinders.  At the same time be sure to have

 the gear boxes completely rebuilt. The above figures should include a gear

 drive rebuild.  If the engines are B1A engines with the 12 ignition coils

 mounted up on top, Continental has an STC to convert them to conventional

 mags.  This will be a much more trouble free system, and less expensive than

 replace all of the low and high tension leads on the 12 coil set up.

 Lycoming no longer has the leads available.



 As far as driving a plane with these engines, a very special technique must

 be learned.  Treat them right and they will do a good job for you.  380 HP

 per wing is a wonderful thing, and the "cool factor" can't be beat.  As an

 example for special driving, 1. never push the propeller levers foreword

 when descending to land.  Your GUMPS check becomes a GUMS check.  If you

 push foreword on the propeller levers you will kill the planetary gears in

 short order.  Never idle or taxi at below 1,200 RPM (1,500 preferred).  If

 you do the Simmonds injection system will surge and you can hear the gear

 boxes rattling.  Again this destroys them. In most cases (in most planes) do

 not use take off power to take off.  Unless it is a short track, and the air

 is thin, or you are really heavy, the top of the green arc on both the RPM

 and Manifold Pressure will still give you more power than any one else has,

 and will extend the life of the engines big time.



 If you seek instruction (this sounds "tacky") go fly with someone who has

 paid the bills out of his (or her) own pocket for about 600 or more hours.

 These engines require very special handling. Given the special handling

 things will be just great!  



 Having said all of the above, one additional comment should be made.  Some

 time ago, I had an engine out on take off, 500 feet agl, fairly heavy, at

 night.  After going to take off power on the good engine, and getting the

 inoperative engine's propeller feathered, it pretty much became a non event.

 With a smaller and weaker engine the results could have been quite

 different. 



 Personally, I would not swap my IGSO 540's for all of the Continentals that

 you could stack in front of me. 



 Moe Mills

 N680RR

 680F(p)



 --

N560WM(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:34 am Post subject: IGSO 540 Lyc ?

I agree, I do the same on my 560F and would not change  them

  

 AB



AOL.com.

  [quote][b]

asgroup(at)tampabay.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:29 am Post subject: IGSO 540 Lyc ?

Moe,



Thanks much. What kind of performance do you plan on? Speed, fuel  

consumption, range? Also, do you operate them lean of peak?



Larry Olson

St. Pete

On Aug 24, 2007, at 10:41 AM, Moe - Ross Racing Pistons wrote:



[quote] 

 <moe(at)rosspistons.com>



 Hi Larry,



 Regarding the IGSO 540 Lycoming engines:



 After flying about 800 hours in my 6800F(p) with these engines,  

 here are a

 few comments:



 They are the most expensive six cylinder engines to overhaul that  

 Lycoming

 makes. Also, they are the shortest TBO.  Figure about 1,200 hours  

 if flown

 properly.  Figure between $ 42,000.00 and $ 60,000.00 each for a  

 good major.

 Do a quality overhaul with NEW cylinders.  At the same time be sure  

 to have

 the gear boxes completely rebuilt. The above figures should include  

 a gear

 drive rebuild.  If the engines are B1A engines with the 12 ignition  

 coils

 mounted up on top, Continental has an STC to convert them to  

 conventional

 mags.  This will be a much more trouble free system, and less  

 expensive than

 replace all of the low and high tension leads on the 12 coil set up.

 Lycoming no longer has the leads available.



 As far as driving a plane with these engines, a very special  

 technique must

 be learned.  Treat them right and they will do a good job for you.   

 380 HP

 per wing is a wonderful thing, and the "cool factor" can't be  

 beat.  As an

 example for special driving, 1. never push the propeller levers  

 foreword

 when descending to land.  Your GUMPS check becomes a GUMS check.   

 If you

 push foreword on the propeller levers you will kill the planetary  

 gears in

 short order.  Never idle or taxi at below 1,200 RPM (1,500  

 preferred).  If

 you do the Simmonds injection system will surge and you can hear  

 the gear

 boxes rattling.  Again this destroys them. In most cases (in most  

 planes) do

 not use take off power to take off.  Unless it is a short track,  

 and the air

 is thin, or you are really heavy, the top of the green arc on both  

 the RPM

 and Manifold Pressure will still give you more power than any one  

 else has,

 and will extend the life of the engines big time.



 If you seek instruction (this sounds "tacky") go fly with someone  

 who has

 paid the bills out of his (or her) own pocket for about 600 or more  

 hours.

 These engines require very special handling. Given the special  

 handling

 things will be just great!



 Having said all of the above, one additional comment should be  

 made.  Some

 time ago, I had an engine out on take off, 500 feet agl, fairly  

 heavy, at

 night.  After going to take off power on the good engine, and  

 getting the

 inoperative engine's propeller feathered, it pretty much became a  

 non event.

 With a smaller and weaker engine the results could have been quite

 different.



 Personally, I would not swap my IGSO 540's for all of the  

 Continentals that

 you could stack in front of me.



 Moe Mills

 N680RR

 680F(p)



 --

moe(at)rosspistons.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:10 am Post subject: IGSO 540 Lyc ?

Larry,



I generally run full rich during climb out and decent.  Generally, the plane

seems to like about 15,000 through 17,999 altitudes.  After leveling off at

altitude, lean to 100'F. lean of peak.  At that point the engine is running

so lean that it can't hurt its self about 60 to 65% of total power or about

240 HP per side. Don't forget to go back to full rich before descending and

be careful of the manifold pressure when descending as the pressure can come

up pretty quick as the air gets thicker and it is very easy to over boost

the engines.  Also be careful on the ground when you advance the throttles,

as you can over boost the engines big time! 



The Simmons injection system will keep the engines with about the right

fuel/ air mixture going up and coming down.



What type of plane are you considering?



If you would like to talk some time call me at 31o.536.0100.  Be sure to

tell our receptionist that you are "from the airport" or you may get the old

"he is currently not here and we don't expect him back for a few years"

routine.



Regards,



Moe    



--

rsrandazzo(at)precisionma
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:50 am Post subject: IGSO 540 Lyc ?

Moe-



Can I send our secretary's for training with yours?



Robert Randazzo





--

CloudCraft(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:51 pm Post subject: IGSO 540 Lyc ?

Isn't this email net terrific?  You can actually get information built upon experience here.

  

 Thanks, Moe.

  

 Wing Commander Gordon



AOL.com.

  [quote][b]

moe(at)rosspistons.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:31 pm Post subject: IGSO 540 Lyc ?

Wing Commander Gordon,  

   

After reading your words of wit and wisdom for quite some time now, it seemed only fitting that I should finally write something other than my usual request for free technical information.  

   

Best regards,  

   

Moe  

         

  

From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of CloudCraft(at)aol.com

 Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 5:51 PM

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: IGSO 540 Lyc ?  

  

     

[b]Isn't this email net terrific?  You can actually get information built upon experience here.[/b]  

    

   

    

[b]Thanks, Moe.[/b]  

    

   

    

[b]Wing Commander Gordon[/b]  

  



 

     

AOL.com.  

   	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4

        [quote][b]

yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:52 pm Post subject: IGSO 540 Lyc ?

REALLY WELL SAID, GREAT ADVICE.  THANKS MOE!!!  jb

 

 

 --

dongirod

Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 140

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:41 pm Post subject: IGSO 540 Lyc ?

Moe;



Sounds like a man after my own heart.  'Tacky' advice or not, I agree!   I 

do believe in 'babying' my Commander and it's engines.  Believe if I take 

care of them, they will take care of me.  And nobody looks after your money 

like you do.  Totally opposite of "drive it like you stole it".  My 560E 

turned FIFTY this year, so need to treat it with lots of TLC.



Even when it wasn't mine, I tried to treat them gently, think that has 

something to do with why in 20K hrs flying I have never lost an engine or 

had an emergency.  Always saved them for the simulator.  Tomorrow that could 

all change, but am a big believer in a gentle hand.



Don





[quote] 

 <moe(at)rosspistons.com>



 Hi Larry,



 Regarding the IGSO 540 Lycoming engines:



 After flying about 800 hours in my 6800F(p) with these engines, here are a

 few comments:



 They are the most expensive six cylinder engines to overhaul that Lycoming

 makes. Also, they are the shortest TBO.  Figure about 1,200 hours if flown

 properly.  Figure between $ 42,000.00 and $ 60,000.00 each for a good 

 major.

 Do a quality overhaul with NEW cylinders.  At the same time be sure to 

 have

 the gear boxes completely rebuilt. The above figures should include a gear

 drive rebuild.  If the engines are B1A engines with the 12 ignition coils

 mounted up on top, Continental has an STC to convert them to conventional

 mags.  This will be a much more trouble free system, and less expensive 

 than

 replace all of the low and high tension leads on the 12 coil set up.

 Lycoming no longer has the leads available.



 As far as driving a plane with these engines, a very special technique 

 must

 be learned.  Treat them right and they will do a good job for you.  380 HP

 per wing is a wonderful thing, and the "cool factor" can't be beat.  As an

 example for special driving, 1. never push the propeller levers foreword

 when descending to land.  Your GUMPS check becomes a GUMS check.  If you

 push foreword on the propeller levers you will kill the planetary gears in

 short order.  Never idle or taxi at below 1,200 RPM (1,500 preferred).  If

 you do the Simmonds injection system will surge and you can hear the gear

 boxes rattling.  Again this destroys them. In most cases (in most planes) 

 do

 not use take off power to take off.  Unless it is a short track, and the 

 air

 is thin, or you are really heavy, the top of the green arc on both the RPM

 and Manifold Pressure will still give you more power than any one else 

 has,

 and will extend the life of the engines big time.



 If you seek instruction (this sounds "tacky") go fly with someone who has

 paid the bills out of his (or her) own pocket for about 600 or more hours.

 These engines require very special handling. Given the special handling

 things will be just great!



 Having said all of the above, one additional comment should be made.  Some

 time ago, I had an engine out on take off, 500 feet agl, fairly heavy, at

 night.  After going to take off power on the good engine, and getting the

 inoperative engine's propeller feathered, it pretty much became a non 

 event.

 With a smaller and weaker engine the results could have been quite

 different.



 Personally, I would not swap my IGSO 540's for all of the Continentals 

 that

 you could stack in front of me.



 Moe Mills

 N680RR

 680F(p)



 --

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