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Kolb fly's like a J3 Cub?

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clearprop

Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 4

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:01 pm Post subject: Kolb fly's like a J3 Cub?

I'm trying to figure out how to get instruction in a Kolb aircraft. No one seems to have one for instructional use. Ideally I'm trying to fly a Firestar. I read in one of the threads here that the J3 Cub has similar flying characteristics as the Kolb. Any truth to this? There is a fellow in town who gives dual instruction in his Cub. I guess if I can master the J3 Cub I can fly a Kolb???

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lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:19 pm Post subject: Re: Kolb fly's like a J3 Cub?

 	  clearprop wrote: 	
		  I'm trying to figure out how to get instruction in a Kolb aircraft. No one seems to have one for instructional use. Ideally I'm trying to fly a Firestar. I read in one of the threads here that the J3 Cub has similar flying characteristics as the Kolb. Any truth to this? There is a fellow in town who gives dual instruction in his Cub. I guess if I can master the J3 Cub I can fly a Kolb??? 	




Possibly, but even the cub will probably still handle like an airliner compared to the Firestar 



Seriously, I don't know as I've never flown in a cub. But I can say my FS II flies most like my old quicksilver than anything else I've flown. Basically once I got used to the tailwheel handling on the ground, I more or less jumped in it and went flying due to its similarity to the quicksilver.



The biggest problem will be the flare. Kolbs are like most UL-like planes; they roundout and flare a lot lower to the ground than the average front-engined tractor. They're much lower inertia as well, so the energy budget is very different than in bigger planes. 



My original UL instructor had about 1000 hours in a cub and, while he said it flew somewhat like an ultralight, it wasn't quite the same.....



So I'd keep looking around until you find an actual Kolb to train in....



LS

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_________________
LS
Titan II SS

APilot(at)webtv.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:27 pm Post subject: Kolb fly's like a J3 Cub?

The Century of Fllight simulator's J-3 Cub is almost exactly comparable

to my Mark III Classic in speed, rate of climb, glide and wheel

landings.  It does not do slips like my Classic and the full stall

landings do not bend the gear.  It is good practice and a whole lot

cheaper than renting a J-3.  In the beginning, I taxied mine about 6

hours over the roughest terrain that I could find to see what was going

to fall off of the engine. It was a good thing to do because a couple

things did break under vibration.  During that time, I got very familiar

with ground handling, including forced ground loops.  Once relaxed and

in control, the flying part is easy. And the landing part is easy when a

wheel landing is used using a touch down speed which is the same as a

high speed taxi speed.

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planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 11:54 pm Post subject: Re: Kolb fly's like a J3 Cub?

I was flying a Piper PA-12 for my Tailwheel endorsement....



One day , it was "down" for maintainace , So I took my flight in a J3



 I would say that it would be a great plane to transition to a Kolb



Gotta Fly...

Mike & "Jaz" in MN , Firestar II / 503 / N381PM

.

.

.

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aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:08 am Post subject: Kolb fly's like a J3 Cub?

Having flown both ,they are some what similar . The main differences from 

memory being the MK111 will get off the ground much faster and climb out at 

a steeper angle.On landing the cub will not drop off speed as fast as the 

kolb so will roll much further. A lot more inertia .They are both a delight 

to fly. Stall speeds are similar. They behave different in a stall. 

Approaches in the cub will be flatter and lower on finals. You can bleed 

speed off much faster in a low inertia aircraft. The cub is much better that 

the kolb in turbulence and has a higher cruise speed. Now to explain these 

differences a bit more . I have 300+ hrs in the kolb and only about 3 in the 

cub. There are things that I would do in the kolb that I would not try in 

the cub but if the hours were reversed who knows.Also an Aronca champ is 

similar to both . I have about 60 hrs in one of those and it is also a 

delight.

Please bear in mind the MK111 I fly is powered by a 503 so is light. I read 

here about things like ground loops ,bending landing gear and cross wind 

landings. I cant say I have experienced any of these problems with the Kolb. 

it behaves very well .I have very little experience with tricycle 

undercarriages,probably no more than 50 landing cycles so maybe that's why.

In the part of the world I fly in the MK111 is a legal ultra light and can 

carry a passenger if the pilot is passenger rated. The cub is not and 

requires a full PPL

the Aronca I mentioned is a scale Ultralight  . Single seater with a 447 .

The biggest and main difference is the inertia ,always be aware of it ,and 

do not let your hand stray far from the throttle when ever you are close to 

the ground.

Any flight experience is better than being on the ground so grab a ride and 

fly any type you can its all good experience.You will not be disappointed 

with the MK111



  Tony

        MK111   NewZealand

---

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Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:51 am Post subject: Re: Kolb fly's like a J3 Cub?

Clearprop,



What kind of dual training you will need to prepare for flying a Firestar depends largely on what you have been flying recently.  If you have not flown at all, then you need to get competent training before soloing anything.



I've flown a PA-11 which is much like a J-3 Cub with more power (90 hp) but soloed from the front seat. I've flown two early model Firestars. If you can master a Cub, including ground handling in strong cross-winds, you should have no problem transitioning to the Firestar. They are not the same but close enough that if you do the slow flight and simulated approach work at safe altitude on your first flight in the Firestar, after J-3 training, then you should be ready to handle the Firestar during landing. 



The Cub with an instructor along for ballast will be roughly twice the weight of a Firestar flown solo, so the momentum during flare is the biggest difference you will notice, as others have said. Other differences worth noting: Lighter wing loading will make the FS more susceptible to thermals and gusts. Lower angle of attack in three point stance (FS) makes graceful full stall landings in a FS a little tough but are fairly easy in a Cub, so wheel landings are recommended in the FS with standard main gear configuration. Cub is more  susceptible to ground loops but they are still possible in a FS, so don't let it get ahead of you in x-winds on the ground. Nose over in a FS is easier with standard gear legs so advancing the throttle in the FS during take-off should be smooth and not too fast, especially with long grass or very soft runway surfaces. For the same reason, the FS brakes should be applied smoothly and gently.



Get used to the differences in calm or nearly calm conditions, and you should be good to go.

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Buffalo, NY (9G0)

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Steve Boetto

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 364

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:23 am Post subject: Kolb fly's like a J3 Cub?

John,

  

 I had about 12 hours in a cub on floats before I flew my 

 Firefly on floats. The biggest difference is going to be in the flair. The  Cub holds off and bleeds airspeed for a bit as you let it settle in. The Firefly  does not. After only 10 minutes in a Quicksilver on floats and I got the  picture.  If the Cub is all you have then go for it but as you are learning  the Kolb use power on your landings to compensate for the difference. In the  Firefly with a 447 it is about 4000rpm.

  

  

 steve

 do not archive



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vincenic1(at)embarqmail.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:14 pm Post subject: Kolb fly's like a J3 Cub?

John,



I took instruction in a J3 before flying my Firestar  II  the first 

time.  I thought it worked out very well as a model for flying the Firestar.



Vince Nicely



clearprop wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



I'm trying to figure out how to get instruction in a Kolb aircraft. No one seems to have one for instructional use. Ideally I'm trying to fly a Firestar. I read in one of the threads here that the J3 Cub has similar flying characteristics as the Kolb. Any truth to this? There is a fellow in town who gives dual instruction in his Cub. I guess if I can master the J3 Cub I can fly a Kolb???





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