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henry.voris
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 116
Location: Pueo Field, Kula, Maui
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 Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:56 am Post subject: Acme Gravity Catapult |
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"... mountain flying and flight over open water usually are beyond the scope of private pilot training." (Jeppesen) In Hawaii if you're not over the open ocean or mountains... You're still on the runway. Some of us don't get that.
Pueo Field has been carved out of a sloping forest 2,700 ft. up the side of Haleakala (10,000 ft.). It uses the "Air America" lay out... take-off downhill (runway 29), land uphill (runway 11). I've paced out 350 ft. of lumpy hillside runway, 50ft. wide at the bottom down to 30 ft. at the top. The trees that surround it are about 40 ft tall, but no worries, this is Maui... so come the rainy season and with a little fertilizer and we'll have 'em up to the regulation "50 foot obstacle at end of runway" faster than you can spell FAA...
I rolled Five-Charlee-Bravo to the "launch-pad" at the top of the runway. And found the slope was too steep for the brakes to hold the plane. If I can't park, I sure can't run her up and warm up the engine.
Shortly, there arrived a package from The Acme Gravity Catapult Co. (Beware of coyotes bearing gifts...). First, I dug out shallow pits for the main gear. This stopped the plane from rolling with the engine off... Next I drove a fence post three feet aft of the rudder. Hooking a blue nylon strap to the post, I looped the other end of the strap through a carabineer hooked to the tail wheel and jammed the loop with a large metal pin. Next, I tied a white nylon line to the pin, then ran the line back to the fence post, around a pulley, and then forward to the cockpit via a piece of PVC pipe nailed to the ground. (Thank-you Mr.Goldberg)
On the third pull the mighty 447 roared to life, I strapped on the plane and ran my checks... When I was ready to launch, I yanked the line to activate the catapult... nothing (#(at)$%*$#&*&#%). Second yank, the pin slipped the loop and we trundled downhill. As we passed between two avocado trees I pour on the fuel, pull the stick back to the stops and on the second bounce we leapt into the sky. Shortest fixed wing take off for me, ever. (100 Ft.)
PLEASE BE NOTIFIED... THERE ARE NO MORE REFRENCES TO THE ACME GRAVITY CATAPULT... JUST A LONG WINDED DISCRIPTION OF A SHORT FLIGHT... IF I WERE YOU, I'D SKIP IT & GO DIRECT TO THE PHOTOS.
We climb, turn 180 to fly uphill, then turn back down to make a low pass over the field for the benefit of my adoring fans...
About a mile below Pueo Field I see a long section of dirt road leading from a quarry at the bottom of the Hawaiian Home Lands. We make two low passes and note it as an emergency field.
We continue down to Puu Kale (1,400 ft.) a broad red cinder cone jutting from the side of the mountain. We fly down next to the lip and start around, keeping it a couple of hundred feet off our right wing. Three quarters of the way around and we have come around to the north side of the cone. And are facing the summit of the mountain again. The tree tops start to rise to meet us, I give her some power to climb and continue around the cone.(By now it was after 09:00... the sun has been roasting the top of the mountain, heating the air close to the surface. As the heated air moves up and away, air from the ocean and lowlands rushes uphill to fill the void. Above my head, at 7,000 clouds were forming as the rising airmass cooled.) I feel the plane being yanked upward. The cinder cone is still abeam, but it's getting smaller... I am unable to stay close to it, as we're being swept uphill, past it. The VSI is pointing straight up and looking worried... (Several factor were at work here, first I was climbing to avoid the rising mountain... Second, the uphill moving airmass was being accelerated as curved around the flank the cinder cone.) As we reached the uphill side of the cone we steepened the bank, continuing to climb we turned 270 to fly back to Pueo Field.
We had found the UP escalator and it was fun... I worry about stumbling onto the DOWN escalator...
I should explain that I am an extremely short time pilot. I last flew nine months ago, in Arizona. This is the first flight for my plane in Hawaii. This is the first time Pueo Field has been used for something other than Pueos hunting mice and growing avocados. The field is in a hole in the trees and maybe 350 ft. long, so to land... Ya gotta be right on the numbers...
The first two attempts are too low... so low that the view of the runway disappears behind the trees. I give her fuel to keep us outta the tree tops. The runway reappears just before we are over it. But now we're too fast and not properly lined up. Full throttle and we go around. On the third pass we approach high enough to see the field and line up. But I am unable to properly control my descent speed and we pick up too much speed to stuff it into the short field.
Full power again, as we climb out I can see the neighbors are starting to cover their pot plants... A little further down, I notice some guys hauling out an old airplane decoy from the cargo cult days... Three passes and it's a cute little yellow airplane, after that we become a nuisance... We leave the area, towards the south west.
To the north, alternate field #1 (abandoned cropdusters field in the sugarcane) is under a dark rain squall sweeping in from the north shore. To the south, at alternate field #2 (drag strip using a remnant of a runway from the WWII Puu Nene NAS) the wind is kicking up huge red dust devils. But directly below is that quarry road.
We drop down and make another pass... It all looks good. We fly out, turn 180 and line up on the road. The landing is average, not a thing of great beauty, but no damage... Rolling out I see the road continues uphill a half a mile. I give her some more fuel and we drive up the hill. The road ends at a T intersection that forms a ledge on the side of the slope. I shut off the engine. My cell phone is ringing...
The site super gave me a ride up to the highway. There I met my pals, who came with my truck and trailer. We packed her up and hauled her back to Pueo Field. I returned with a case of beer and dropped it at the super's office.
I know I gotta practice every aspect of airmanship... To land at Pueo Field I have to find some where to run some touch-n-goes, and get better control of my descent speeds... Any advice on short field, uphill, in the trees landings would be appreciated...
Everyone on this list knows... It can be a long time between that moment you decide you are going to "get a plane and fly", and that moment when you climb in your plane and fly away... I'm not worried that I don't fly as well as I will someday. I was just having a blast flying...
PHOTOS:
FireFly.JPG... Over Pueo Field. Just above the plane you can see a line of white posts ascending a ridge... They are a line of large wind chargers... they are 16/17 miles away. There are 25 of them and they supply the island with 10% of our electric needs.
Launch Pad.JPG... White PVC for Acme Gravity Catapult can be seen on the ground.
Acme Gravity Catapult.JPG... Nuf said...
Henry
FireFly Five-Charlee-Bravo
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Henry
Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Acme Gravity Catapult |
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Henry,
I can feel your pain, not being one of the best landing guys around. Generally no problem, but not pretty either. What I have found to be the best solution to best landing (smoothest) and shortest landing is to fly a variation of the GA pattern. A variation because you are not quite that high, but the rest is the same. Try about 600 feet high with the spot that you want to touch down 45 degrees behind you, throttle back the power completely, establish your glide, (50-60, whichever you use) make your turns holding that speed, ( If you are landing uphill keep more speed) and let it sink to the field. If you find you are too high or low, go around and adjust your pattern until you arrive at the right spot. For some reason unknown to me, if I have to use power to get to where I want, the landings are rougher, and the roll out is further. Keep your eyes up the runway, not the spot that you are going to touch down, hard to do, but worth it.
I would suggest that you do your practice at a more forgiving spot and develope some time at practice before you do the other field. It doesn't sound all that swell to me.
Larry C
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jindoguy(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:02 pm Post subject: Acme Gravity Catapult |
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Henry, A man who knows how to grease the skids of life is a class act. Taking a case to the super's office, Bravo.
I've only been to Maui once and I made sure I drove up Haleakala. The bad part was that it was the day after Hurricane Iwa and the local hang glider outfit wouldn't go up or rent me a glider to go without them. That was 25 years ago this November. Time flies. Fly safe.
Rick
do not archive
On 8/29/07, henry.voris <henry_voris(at)yahoo.com (henry_voris(at)yahoo.com)> wrote: | Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "henry.voris" <henry_voris(at)yahoo.com (henry_voris(at)yahoo.com)>
"... mountain flying and flight over open water usually are beyond the scope of private pilot training." (Jeppesen) In Hawaii if you're not over the open ocean or mountains... You're still on the runway. Some of us don't get that.
Pueo Field has been carved out of a sloping forest 2,700 ft. up the side of Haleakala (10,000 ft.). It uses the "Air America" lay out... take-off downhill (runway 29), land uphill (runway 11). I've paced out 350 ft. of lumpy hillside runway, 50ft. wide at the bottom down to 30 ft. at the top. The trees that surround it are about 40 ft tall, but no worries, this is Maui... so come the rainy season and with a little fertilizer and we'll have 'em up to the regulation "50 foot obstacle at end of runway" faster than you can spell FAA...
I rolled Five-Charlee-Bravo to the "launch-pad" at the top of the runway. And found the slope was too steep for the brakes to hold the plane. If I can't park, I sure can't run her up and warm up the engine.
Shortly, there arrived a package from The Acme Gravity Catapult Co. (Beware of coyotes bearing gifts...). First, I dug out shallow pits for the main gear. This stopped the plane from rolling with the engine off... Next I drove a fence post three feet aft of the rudder. Hooking a blue nylon strap to the post, I looped the other end of the strap through a carabineer hooked to the tail wheel and jammed the loop with a large metal pin. Next, I tied a white nylon line to the pin, then ran the line back to the fence post, around a pulley, and then forward to the cockpit via a piece of PVC pipe nailed to the ground. (Thank-you Mr.Goldberg)
On the third pull the mighty 447 roared to life, I strapped on the plane and ran my checks... When I was ready to launch, I yanked the line to activate the catapult... nothing (#(at)$%*$#&*&#%). Second yank, the pin slipped the loop and we trundled downhill. As we passed between two avocado trees I pour on the fuel, pull the stick back to the stops and on the second bounce we leapt into the sky. Shortest fixed wing take off for me, ever. (100 Ft.)
PLEASE BE NOTIFIED... THERE ARE NO MORE REFRENCES TO THE ACME GRAVITY CATAPULT... JUST A LONG WINDED DISCRIPTION OF A SHORT FLIGHT... IF I WERE YOU, I'D SKIP IT & GO DIRECT TO THE PHOTOS.
We climb, turn 180 to fly uphill, then turn back down to make a low pass over the field for the benefit of my adoring fans...
About a mile below Pueo Field I see a long section of dirt road leading from a quarry at the bottom of the Hawaiian Home Lands. We make two low passes and note it as an emergency field.
We continue down to Puu Kale (1,400 ft.) a broad red cinder cone jutting from the side of the mountain. We fly down next to the lip and start around, keeping it a couple of hundred feet off our right wing. Three quarters of the way around and we have come around to the north side of the cone. And are facing the summit of the mountain again. The tree tops start to rise to meet us, I give her some power to climb and continue around the cone.(By now it was after 09:00... the sun has been roasting the top of the mountain, heating the air close to the surface. As the heated air moves up and away, air from the ocean and lowlands rushes uphill to fill the void. Above my head, at 7,000 clouds were forming as the rising airmass cooled.) I feel the plane being yanked upward. The cinder cone is still abeam, but it's getting smaller... I am unable to stay close to it, as we're being swept uphill, past it. The VSI is pointing straight up and looking worried... (Several factor were at wo!
rk here, first I was climbing to avoid the rising mountain... Second, the uphill moving airmass was being accelerated as curved around the flank the cinder cone.) As we reached the uphill side of the cone we steepened the bank, continuing to climb we turned 270 to fly back to Pueo Field.
We had found the UP escalator and it was fun... I worry about stumbling onto the DOWN escalator...
I should explain that I am an extremely short time pilot. I last flew nine months ago, in Arizona. This is the first flight for my plane in Hawaii. This is the first time Pueo Field has been used for something other than Pueos hunting mice and growing avocados. The field is in a hole in the trees and maybe 350 ft. long, so to land... Ya gotta be right on the numbers...
The first two attempts are too low... so low that the view of the runway disappears behind the trees. I give her fuel to keep us outta the tree tops. The runway reappears just before we are over it. But now we're too fast and not properly lined up. Full throttle and we go around. On the third pass we approach high enough to see the field and line up. But I am unable to properly control my descent speed and we pick up too much speed to stuff it into the short field.
Full power again, as we climb out I can see the neighbors are starting to cover their pot plants... A little further down, I notice some guys hauling out an old airplane decoy from the cargo cult days... Three passes and it's a cute little yellow airplane, after that we become a nuisance... We leave the area, towards the south west.
To the north, alternate field #1 (abandoned cropdusters field in the sugarcane) is under a dark rain squall sweeping in from the north shore. To the south, at alternate field #2 (drag strip using a remnant of a runway from the WWII Puu Nene NAS) the wind is kicking up huge red dust devils. But directly below is that quarry road.
We drop down and make another pass... It all looks good. We fly out, turn 180 and line up on the road. The landing is average, not a thing of great beauty, but no damage.. Rolling out I see the road continues uphill a half a mile. I give her some more fuel and we drive up the hill. The road ends at a T intersection that forms a ledge on the side of the slope. I shut off the engine. My cell phone is ringing...
The site super gave me a ride up to the highway. There I met my pals, who came with my truck and trailer. We packed her up and hauled her back to Pueo Field. I returned with a case of beer and dropped it at the super's office.
I know I gotta practice every aspect of airmanship... To land at Pueo Field I have to find some where to run some touch-n-goes, and get better control of my descent speeds... Any advice on short field, uphill, in the trees landings would be appreciated...
Everyone on this list knows... It can be a long time between that moment you decide you are going to "get a plane and fly", and that moment when you climb in your plane and fly away... I'm not worried that I don't fly as well as I will someday. I was just having a blast flying...
PHOTOS:
FireFly.JPG... Over Pueo Field. Just above the plane you can see a line of white posts ascending a ridge... They are a line of large wind chargers... they are 16/17 miles away. There are 25 of them and they supply the island with 10% of our electric needs.
Launch Pad.JPG... White PVC for Acme Gravity Catapult can be seen on the ground.
Acme Gravity Catapult.JPG... Nuf said...
Henry
FireFly Five-Charlee-Bravo
--------
Henry
Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo
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takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport. [quote][b]
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henry.voris
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 116
Location: Pueo Field, Kula, Maui
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: Acme Gravity Catapult |
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Larry,
Thanks for the good advice... I'll follow it and review it before I fly again.
A GA type of approach worked very well for me when I picked up the plane in Arizona. Of course 4,300 ft of paved runway in a flat desert made the whole business of landing a lot less stressful.
BTW Great photo of the Owyhee Canyon...
Rick,
I figured they had the beer coming... Dropping in on people outta the blue invites people to embarrass them selves with rude behavior... But these guys were cool about it.
The beer was such a hit I'm gonna carry a case of cold ones next time I fly, so no matter where I come down I can start handing 'em out...
Henry
FireFly Five-Charlee-Bravo
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Henry
Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo
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possums(at)bellsouth.net
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:19 pm Post subject: Acme Gravity Catapult |
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At 03:56 PM 8/29/2007, you wrote:
| Quote: |
"... mountain flying and flight over open water usually are beyond
the scope of private pilot training." (Jeppesen) In Hawaii if you're
not over the open ocean or mountains... You're still on the runway.
Some of us don't get that.
I know I gotta practice every aspect of airmanship... To
land at Pueo Field I have to find some where to run some
touch-n-goes, and get better control of my descent speeds... Any
advice on short field, uphill, in the trees landings would be appreciated...
Henry
FireFly Five-Charlee-Bravo
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Good job.
Possum material.
Here's a guy on google:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid 249666480592775533&q=%22short+field%22&total 1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=5
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Dave Bigelow
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 103
Location: Kamuela, Hawaii
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:21 am Post subject: Re: Acme Gravity Catapult |
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| Quote: | Pueo Field has been carved out of a sloping forest 2,700 ft. up the side of Haleakala (10,000 ft.). It uses the "Air America" lay out... take-off downhill (runway 29), land uphill (runway 11). I've paced out 350 ft. of lumpy hillside runway, 50ft. wide at the bottom down to 30 ft. at the top. The trees that surround it are about 40 ft tall, but no worries, this is Maui... so come the rainy season and with a little fertilizer and we'll have 'em up to the regulation "50 foot obstacle at end of runway" faster than you can spell FAA...
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Henry, sure enjoyed the account of your Pueo Field adventure.
I'd suggest you find a more forgiving strip to build your proficiency in the Firefly. You stand a good chance of bending your ship operating out of Pueo Field unless you are well practiced in all aspects of flying your new ship. I also operate from a very short mountain strip on the Big Island where I take off down hill and land up hill. I trailered the Firestar to the Waimea airport and did a lot of pattern work before I attempted to fly from my pasture strip. Even after that, it still is pretty exciting and leaves no room for error.
How about the old Puu Nene strip? Can you trailer down there and spend a couple of sessions practicing?
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Dave Bigelow
Kamuela, Hawaii
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David Lucas
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Europe. based Amsterdam NL
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Acme Gravity Catapult |
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Hello Henry, Way back in the dim distant past (circa 1970’s) I used to do a lot of jungle flying in Papua New Guinea (PNG) including some into short / steep mountain strips, some up to 15% slope. This was in C 206’s etc but the info can be adapted to Kolb’s I’m sure.
First thing I recall is that all your normal cues for situation awareness, perspective and judgement are all different. The horizon is not a distant flattish line with surrounding countryside basically flat or gentle undulations. Instead it’s replaced by slopes and curves and contours and valleys etc. Really upsets the judgement. I think you have found that out already, having to do two go-rounds from your approach attempts, and congratulations for not pressing on and landing elsewhere.
Good airmanship !
When you are on your normal descent profile to a ‘standard’ level-ish strip you have a picture in your mind of how the perspective of the strip should look and you make your corrections against this datum. Now if you tip up the ground to a significant up-slope, such as your strip, the natural tendency is maintain that same view out the window. The only way this can be done is if your approach is flatter by the same amount that the strip is steep. This is courting trouble, because whilst things look
‘normal’ you tend to have other parameters normal too, like power setting (I’m not sure if you use some power on the approach or not) But you’ll end up flying more or less level (because it looks right), but with reduced power (cause if feels right) as if you’re descending (but your not), so the speed will drop off quickly and you’re setting yourself up for a stall-spin accident. I think that’s how you got to this statement;
"The first two attempts are too low... so low that the view of the runway disappears behind the trees"
What you should see is an “I’m Too High / Space Shuttle Approach†perspective . . . but your not because the view will be your normal descent profile plus the steep strip profile. The two added together give this result. It’s really deceptive until you get used to it. We had to be checked into these sort of strips at least 5 take off and landings with a check pilot before released to do it yourself.
Your aiming point should be the same, as I recall, so I’m not sure what Larry ment with his advice to keep your eyes further up the runway. You still have to touch down at the start of the strip so that’s what you’ve got to keep your eye on. Perhaps Larry could elucidate on that statement. Perhaps he ment the flare manoeuvre where you definitely have to be aware of the extra pitch up required which would require looking further up the strip (see next paragraph), but at that point, not during the pre-flare approach.
Then in the flare instead of just flaring to a level attitude you have to continue to pitch up to a slight climb equivalent to the strip slope, otherwise your touch-down will be (ahem) positive. This extra flaring in turn takes more energy requiring either a little power instead of closing the throttle or extra airspeed to store the required energy for the manoeuvre.
After touchdown you then have to increase power, up to full throttle, just to get up to the top of the strip.
When you park, if you haven’t got a level place, park sideways to the slope. There are several wrecks of the side of PNG airstrips that prove the undeniable fact; Gravity will always win ! One example being a Royal Australian Air Force De Havilland Caribou that was to costly to recover after the said event, so they stripped it of all useful bits and left it to the locals. Some local natives moved in to their ‘new house’. Much better that mud huts ! Roomier too !
So there’s a few thoughts from the dim distant past. Hope it’s of some use. Is there anywhere you can get some practice on a longer, but still sloped strip without too many obstacles to worry about before you try yours ?
By the way, loved the analogy to Coyote’s and (obviously) Road Runner. I’ve already got a picture of you in my minds eye about to launch off 
Have Fun & Fly Safe !
David.
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:20 am Post subject: Acme Gravity Catapult |
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Your aiming point should be the same, as I recall, so Iâ?Tm not sure what
Larry ment with his advice to keep your eyes further up the runway. You
still have to touch down at the start of the strip so thatâ?Ts what youâ?Tve
got to keep your eye on. Perhaps Larry could elucidate on that statement.
Perhaps he ment the flare manoeuvre where you definitely have to be aware of
the extra pitch up required which would require looking further up the strip
(see next paragraph), but at that point, not during the pre-flare approach.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am afraid its all guesswork to those who cannot see just what the strip
looks like on the ground. However my statement was intended to point out
that looking at the ground with your direct straight on vision will not give
you the depth perception that using your peripheral vision will. You will
most always flare too soon and then things will get a lot more exciting
quickly. None of us can tell him the perfect fool proof way to land in that
situation, he is going to have to find it for himself. These are all merely
suggestion and should be ignored if they don't fit the situation. Perhaps I
was foolish to have made any suggestion at all.
Larry C
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:42 am Post subject: Acme Gravity Catapult |
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None of us can tell him the perfect fool proof way to land in that
| Quote: | situation, he is going to have to find it for himself. > Larry C
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Hi Larry:
I'll buy that.
Landing a 206 in New Guinea probably does not compare with a FF in Hawaii,
or any other place.
I remember some one getting wrapped around the axle because us Kolb pilots
did not buy his 747 style approach in a FS. There comes a time when Kolbs
and big ass airplanes have very little in common. If you have been flying
big airplanes most of your flying career, this will be hard to understand.
If you have been flying Kolbs most of your flying career, it is much easier
to understand and accept.
To land in that little up hill strip the first time, I think I would prepare
something like this. Find me a nice dirt road. Mark it off same usable
length as the mountain strip. Whether it is up hill, down hill, or level,
would not matter. Length is what matters. Fly that landing until I could
pin it every time with room to spare. Then tackle the mountain strip.
Unless the air was really turbulent, or had a tailwind, should be a piece of
cake, especially landing uphill. The way all Kolbs react to elevator input,
overcoming the uphill strip should be pretty easy. However, anytime we put
tall trees at the end of the strip, plus trees on the approach end, it tends
to intimidate me. Easy to try and rush things. Sometimes, most of the
time, Kolbs and other airplanes, do not want to be rushed. 
Anyhow, I think that is the way I would approach it, if I "had" to land in
that strip. If I did not have to land in that strip, I'd find me another
home.
I have been flying out of a 750' strip with poor approach and departure for
23 years. Actually, I have about 600' useable. Any shorter than that and I
would be looking for another home.
Take care,
john h
mkIII
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hauck's holler
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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:55 am Post subject: Acme Gravity Catapult |
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Just curious - I assume you have landed the MKIII or other light Kolbs on
steep uphill slopes?
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
DNA
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Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:27 am Post subject: Acme Gravity Catapult |
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| Quote: | Just curious - I assume you have landed the MKIII or other light Kolbs on
steep uphill slopes?
Richard Pike
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Richard P:
Not sure if the above is addressed to me or not. Your comment didn't
indicate.
If it is, yes I have landed on some extremely steep uphill airstrips.
Also landed on some extremely steep downhill slopes.
One of the best uphill slopes is landing to the west at Homer Kolb's strip.
I'll dig out some photos, if I can find them, that show this end of the
strip. The difficult part of that approach is losing a lot of altitude over
the trees and down over the lake. Another way to do it is fly between the
house and the trees, turn right and west to land up slope.
Those that have flown Homer's airstrip will be very familiar with what I am
trying to describe here.
Take care,
john h
mkIII
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:05 am Post subject: Acme Gravity Catapult |
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>> Just curious - I assume you have landed the MKIII or other light Kolbs
on
| Quote: | > steep uphill slopes?
>
> Richard Pike
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Richard P:
Forgot about Larry C's airstrip. We do a lot of upslope and downslope take
offs and landings on the south end of his strip by the house. Here is a
photo I like of one landing there. John Williamson took these.
john h
mkIII
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MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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George Alexander
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 245
Location: SW Florida
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Acme Gravity Catapult |
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Don't have the slope in the picture, but this is what John means "...fly between the house and the trees, turn right and west...." In this picture, he was getting ready to roll out of the turn (in Homer's Firestar).
Taken at the gathering at Homer's place on June 16, 2007. More to come.....
| John Hauck wrote: |
<<<<SNIP>>>>
One of the best uphill slopes is landing to the west at Homer Kolb's strip.
I'll dig out some photos, if I can find them, that show this end of the
strip. The difficult part of that approach is losing a lot of altitude over
the trees and down over the lake. Another way to do it is fly between the
house and the trees, turn right and west to land up slope.
<<<<SNIP>>>>
|
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George Alexander
FS II R503
E-LSA N709FS
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:01 pm Post subject: Acme Gravity Catapult |
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> Don't have the slope in the picture, but this is what John means "...fly
between the house and the trees, turn right and west...." In this picture,
he was getting ready to roll out of the turn (in Homer's Firestar).
| Quote: |
Taken at the gathering at Homer's place on June 16, 2007. More to
come.....
|
Thanks, George A:
Not an easy maneuver coming through there when the wind is blowing a pretty
good clip.
If you can get the airplane down pretty close to the pond, the hill is so
steep you can slow right down and turn right to go to the hanger.
I don't know what Richard P was scratching for, unless he thought I was
running my mouth without having experienced what I was talking about. I try
not to do that. Reserve the BS for the experts.
Richard has an intimidating strip at his place. I have flown in and out of
it in his mkIII with him flying, but I have not actually shot a landing or
done a T/O from there. It is like an obstacle course, over the high tension
transmission lines and towers, then across the fence, then up the hill until
you hit the tree and stop. Just what Kolbs are designed and built for.
john h
mkIII
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:38 pm Post subject: Acme Gravity Catapult |
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I was just surprised that in your earlier post today to Larry C, you did not
mention the need to possibly maintain or add some throttle to "fly uphill"
at touchdown. Having seen more than one U/L pilot make an approach to some
of our various local uphill strips with the throttle closed, and then not
have enough energy or thrust to be able to match the slope angle just prior
to flare, and with a resulting "extra-firm" arrival, I expected you to bring
that out. The rest of your instructions were complete and detailed, so it
just struck me as odd that you didn't mention that. Seemed out of character
for you, so I was trying to figure out why. No big deal.
There is a local guy named Bill Williams that lives about 15 miles north of
here, and his strip is only about 250' long, but is at almost a 30 degree
angle. Talk about a big dose of throttle on short final... Wow. I need to
make a video.
PS: I like the part about "until you hit the tree and stop." So far, I
haven't had to do that. So far...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
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Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 2:57 am Post subject: Re: Acme Gravity Catapult |
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Speaking of hilly runways...
I don't recall where I got this photo but it worth a quick look. Not certain where this was taken but believe I remember it might have been somewhere in Paupau New Guinea.
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Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
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henry.voris
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 116
Location: Pueo Field, Kula, Maui
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:54 am Post subject: Re: Acme Gravity Catapult |
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Possum
Thanks for the Video...
Your river flying video has been an inspiration for me.
Dave B.
I'm trying to get the keys to the drag strip (old Puu NeNe NAS)... I have cane roads and other places worked out for "emergency" landings. But you can get away with that only a few times... And what I need is a place where I can legally run touch-n-goes. More and more of the cane roads have gates now...
And to paraphrase something wise I read on this list... I should have second thoughts about landing somewhere I'm not prepared to stay.
For me to use a real airfield means I have to trailer her to Hana. More than just a day trip... And as you know, generally we only get a few hours of flying time each day...
The plan for now is to fly out of Pueo Field... Go somewhere and practice approaches and landings. Come back to Pueo and give it three attempts before radioing my pals and telling them where to pick me up. (They tell me to paint a red sun on the wing of the yellow plane that flies away but doesn't come back...)
When I saw your video I was jealous of your treeless expanse of grassland...
David
Bush piloting in PNG... WOW... I mean it. In the '70s my family lived in Kalimantan... We had our fair share of inhospitable real estate covered with jungle and the not infrequent band of blowgun toting, "reformed" from headhunting, penis gourd guys. But they all considered PNG to be a rough neighborhood.
You pegged my problem with the low approach. Yup perception is a problem when the entire landscape is rising as you approach it... I'm sure the Space Shuttle approach is the way to go. Thanks for the great advice...
Larry,
You said, "...looking at the ground with your direct straight on vision will not give you the depth perception that using your peripheral vision will. You will most always flare too soon and then things will get a lot more exciting quickly." Sounds like one of my landings... I'll take the hint.
Also you are right on about the importance of flying a tight pattern, rather than just flying around and trying to land... I think the 600 ft. AGL approach should give me the space shuttle view. I used 400 ft. in Arizona and always needed more fuel to make the field.
John H.,
I take your point about Kolb’s flying different from aircraft with some mass... Luckily I'm such a short time pilot that most of my bad habits have been developed in the FireFly...
You're right, I gotta fine a good place to practice, and set it up with marks on the ground so I really know the distances involved...
Great photos... Great long distance flying... Thanks for sharing...
Richard,
Thanks for the advice on fuel at touchdown... I have enough trouble with "extra-firm" arrivals...
Thom,
Thanks for the photo... That field is a bit steeper than mine... But I do like the "ski jump" feature. I'm going to start putting one in Pueo Field today.
George,
Thanks for the photo.
BTW... Your pages on Kolb Trailers was a great help when I had my trailer built... Thanks.
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Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo
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David Lucas
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Europe. based Amsterdam NL
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:47 am Post subject: Re: Acme Gravity Catapult - revisited |
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Greetings Henry !
Was just reading an article in the April issue of ' Kit Planes' which reminded me of your post on Kolb List Aug ' 07, re operations out of your short sloped strip on the slopes of Haleakala, Hawaii. Now you've probably got it ' pinned down' by now but this article may be of interest to you anyway. It's a simple DIY glide-slope guidance device that virtually anyone could build and might just be worth your trouble to investigate.
It's actually based on the 'Inner Glideslope Indicator System' that the space shuttle uses as it transitions from its (something like) 18 degree glide/plummet after re-entry into the final approach phase profile, and that, in turn, was based or developed from the system the navy uses for carrier landings, so the system has quite some heritage. It just needs to be adapted to Kolb approach profiles to work.
It's basically a ' ball and bar' arrangement where something like a round trash can lid painted a bright colour is mounted on a pole to the side of the strip just ahead of and adjacent to the touch down point and facing towards, and thus visible from, the approach area. A little further back (about 24 ft mentioned in this article) and mounted lower than the aforementioned trash can lid, another really high tech device, like a piece of corrugated roofing iron, also painted a bright but contrasting colour, is mounted horizontally and at a calculated level somewhat lower than the trash can lid in such a way that when the said trash can lid and the corrugated iron bar are in alignment as you are on approach, then it equates to the desired approach gradient to the touch down point and thus helps overcomes the false allusions of sloped terrain that is also in your vision. If, on approach, the trash can lid appears above the corrugated roofing iron then your ' too low' on profile and if it's below the roofing iron your ' too high'. Fine tuning is done by simply moving the trash can lid up or down the pole a little bit to suit your desired approach profile.
If you've got access to a copy of Kit Planes it might be worth the read anyway.
David.
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jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:34 am Post subject: Acme Gravity Catapult |
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At 04:47 AM 4/18/08 -0700, you wrote:
| Quote: |
It's basically a ' ball and bar' arrangement where something like a round trash can lid painted a bright colour is mounted on a pole to the side of the strip just ahead of and
|
..................
David
Elegant and neat. I my do this to get down over some unmarked power lines at the
end of my undeveloped home strip.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Do not archive
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henry.voris
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 116
Location: Pueo Field, Kula, Maui
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: Acme Gravity Catapult |
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David,
Thanks for the heads up on the April Kit Plane... I'll trot down to the bookstore tonight and pick it up.
I wish I could say that I have perfected my landings, but I find the shorter the field the higher the pucker factor...
Also, now, my mother needs my help, so for the past two months I've been staying with her in Honolulu. I am able to get back to Maui for only two days, every two weeks. During this period I haven't even seen my beloved FireFly, more or less fly it.
The ferry has started to run again, so I may bring the plane to Oahu and fly here. If so I'll have to swap out the 10 gallon tank and maybe off the brakes and larger wheels, to at least look like I comply with part 103... I'll be using a real airport and I fear polyester on the ramp. Back on Maui I fly out of the Hawaiian Homelands where polyester in any form means lunch... The term is "long hog"...
Thanks again for the tip... If I build one of those gizmo's I'll write up something and post it to "the list"...
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Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo
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