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craig(at)ustek.com
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 Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:49 am Post subject: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash |
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http://video.wgntv.com/global/video/popup/pop_player.asp?clipid1=1720795&at1=News&vt1=v&h1=Two+killed+in+Chicago+suburb+plane+crash&d1=25000&redirUrl=http://www.wgntv.com&activePane=info&LaunchPageAdTag=homepage&playerVersion=1&hostPageUrl=http%3A//video.wgntv.com/global/video/popup/pop_playerLaunch.asp%3Fclipid1%3D1720795%26at1%3DNews%26vt1%3Dv%26h1%3DTwo+killed+in+Chicago+suburb+plane+crash%26d1%3D25000%26redirUrl%3Dhttp%3A//www.wgntv.com%26activePane%3Dinfo%26LaunchPageAdTag%3Dhomepage&rnd=25740720
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Baker
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 10:16 AM
To: Yak List
Subject: Illinois 52 crash
I don't know anything more about this. Does anyone?
Roger
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
CRYSTAL LAKE, Ill. -- A plane crashed Monday in the northwest Chicago suburb of Crystal Lake, McHenry County officials said.
The single-engine plane reportedly nose-dived right after takeoff, NBC 5 reported. The Yak-52, which was first built in the 1970s crashed near Lake In The Hills airport.
Crystal Lake officials said the plane went down in a vacant field near Ackman and Randall roads. McHenry County officials said the county conservation district owns the land
Witnesses on the scene said at least one person was killed and another person was transported to Good Shepherd Hospital in Barrington. However, a hospital spokeswoman said the hospital doesn't have any patients from a plane crash.
McHenry County police remain on the scene investigating the crash.
Stay with NBC 5 for the latest news and updates on this developing story.
[quote]
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talew(at)bellsouth.net
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:17 am Post subject: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash |
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The pilots name was reported this morning by the Chicago Tribune as Steve Hildebrand. He is a member of RPA.
Terry Lewis
[quote] ---
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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:46 am Post subject: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash |
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This is the second fatal A/C crash I have heard of today. One from the RPA and the other a Bonanza. Not a good day for aviating!
Fly safe and make sure the bird along with yourselves are ready to aviate!
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 11:16 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash
The pilots name was reported this morning by the Chicago Tribune as Steve Hildebrand. He is a member of RPA.
Terry Lewis
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Mark Scrivener
Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 10
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:21 am Post subject: Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash |
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My condolences to the families. Very sad.
The news report (which could be inaccurate) says the plane banked hard left after takeoff and dove. This sounds somewhat consistent with engine failure as you would have lots of left rudder in, so when the power stopped (assuming you were too astonished to take your foot out) you would find yourself turning left.
Looking at the pic of the airplane in the video you can see a large buckle in the fuse just below the canopy. They must have impacted pretty hard. I wonder if trees prevented making a safe landing?
RECOMENDED READING: several months back the AOPA had an article on engine failures during takeoff. The big take away was the stall happens very fast - you are slow, heavy, and high AOA. To avoid the stall you have to aggressively push the nose down. The article recommended simulating these emergencies at high altitude . Apparently in a 172 the stall came in just a few seconds after removing power. Engine fails, pilot goes "oh S&!t, what just happened?" Right after he gets past the denial and starts going through the mental check list "nose forward, fuel, mags, etc, the plane is already in a stall.
Remember - complacancy kills.
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MarkWDavis
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 104
Location: Syracuse, KS
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:48 am Post subject: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash |
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Steve Fossett is also missing south of Reno in a Citabria. No hits on an ELT yet according to Fox News.
Mark Davis
N44YK
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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:53 am Post subject: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash |
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Having experienced two engine failures on TO. You are dead on! I highly
recommend 20 or so hours in a glider to round out your flight experience. I
strongly suspect I could have been a mort without it. Fly the airplane first
and manage the emergency second. That means getting the nose down the
heartbeat that all does not appear well. I fly with some nose down trim to
help with that instinct all the time.
Doc
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HawkerPilot2015
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash |
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| Quote: | | To avoid the stall you have to aggressively push the nose down. |
I completely disagree with this statement. This will get you in deep shit quick and also eat up some precious altitude! I would rather release some back pressure (not jam the stick forward...remember you can stall at any speed) and start looking for a place to put her down....STRAIGHT AHEAD (depending on your ALT) if at possible. Turns will kill you!
The -50 will fly a very low airspeeds while maintaing a ton of control authority.
I would highly recommend everyone taking an upset training course! Best money I have ever spent on training and learned way more than I thought I would!
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dontmesswtexas(at)yahoo.c
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:46 pm Post subject: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash |
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First I would like to offer my condolences to both familes. As Bob Hoover says, you fly it all the way to the crash...
Lynn
Tim Gagnon <NiftyYak50(at)fuse.net> wrote:
[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon"
| Quote: | To avoid the stall you have to aggressively push the nose down.
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I completely disagree with this statement. This will get you in deep shit quick and also eat up some precious altitude! I would rather release some back pressure (not jam the stick forward...remember you can stall at any speed) and start looking for a place to put her down....STRAIGHT AHEAD (depending on your ALT) if at possible. Turns will kill you!
The -50 will fly a very low airspeeds while maintaing a ton of control authority.
I would highly recommend everyone taking an [quote][b]
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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:06 pm Post subject: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash |
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Tim,
You are correct for the 50, she will fly at 60 knots but not the 52. At
nearly 1/2 ton more in wt., you need to get the nose down. You cannot make a
180 back to the field in a 52 at or below 700 ft. A 1000 ft is closer to
getting you there. The "deuce" has a glide ratio of a rock! You have to
convert PE to KE by dropping the nose so you have to convert altitude to
airspeed.
Doc
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HawkerPilot2015
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash |
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Doc,
Lowering the nose is key...not slamming the stick forward. In a lot of the airplanes I have flown from jets to props, a slight chnage in AOA will help tons. A big change in AOA, either way, will normally get you in trouble.
By the way, this discussion has NOTHING to do with what happened in IL...no one knows yet so I will not even begin to speculate. I too, offer up my prayers to the family.
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Mark Scrivener
Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 10
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash |
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Tim,
Agreed, we have no idea what happened in IL. But what we do know is enough to remind us that loss of power on takeoff can be one of the more deadly emergencies. (This is not to say they lost power, just the accident profile begs the question).
"Aggressively" pushing the nose over was the wording I recalled from the AOPA article - which was based on a 172. Obviously "aggressive" is a subjective term, and different aircraft will require different reaction times. However, the point is airspeed can bleed quickly in this situation, and lowering the nose to obtain best glide must be done promptly.
Again, my thoughts and prayers are with the families. Hopefully the NTSB report will shed further light on what went wrong and how others can avoid this fate.
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HawkerPilot2015
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:20 pm Post subject: Re: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash |
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AOA can be controlled smoothly in most airplanes. In the jet that I fly, when we do stall in the sim, we do not lower the nose at all..just push the levers up. In the Extra-300, same thing. Yak-50...same same. These airplanes have some excess power. A C-172 is a typical GA pig..it needs more power to begin with.
Get to your best glide speed as soon and as SMOOTHLY as you can. Do it to abruptly, and I think you create a new set of problems. I see new hire FO's horse the airplane around all the time...big inputs mean big corrections..big corrections can lead to bigger corrections the opposite way....and it becomes cyclic.
Another tip, is when you fly, look around for places to set her down in and around the airport in the event the engine takes a nap. The -50 uses little runway so straight ahead on my field works fine (depending on alit). I now climb out steeper for altitude that I can trade for AS if I need it. I am trying to keep my patterns tight and come off the perch at idle. (But idle is NOT the same as a windmilling prop). I have escape routes in the event something goes wrong. When you are flying into a new field, look around while you are in the pattern...or come in a 500 or 1000 feet above pattern ALT and do some airport FAM.
These motors are bullet proof but not immune to simple and fatal failures. Take care of them and they will take care of you. When they talk to you...listen!
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brian-1927(at)lloyd.com
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:42 pm Post subject: Video report on the Illinois 52 crash |
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On Sep 4, 2007, at 1:24 PM, Tim Gagnon wrote:
| Quote: |
> To avoid the stall you have to aggressively push the nose down.
I completely disagree with this statement. This will get you in
deep shit quick and also eat up some precious altitude! I would
rather release some back pressure (not jam the stick
forward...remember you can stall at any speed) and start looking
for a place to put her down....STRAIGHT AHEAD (depending on your
ALT) if at possible. Turns will kill you!
|
You just have to go out and try it and see what it is really like.
Get some altitude, put the airplane in take-off configuration, and
yank the power. At altitude it is not dangerous and actually
experiencing what the airplane does is about 1,000,000x better than
listening to others tell you about it.
Personally I find that it is very natural to maintain an approximate
AoA when the power goes away. It isn't a push -- it is more of an
"unload". But none of what I say means a thing until you go try it
out yourself.
| Quote: |
The -50 will fly a very low airspeeds while maintaing a ton of
control authority.
|
Any airplane will fly at any airspeed if you stay under critical AoA.
| Quote: | I would highly recommend everyone taking an upset training course!
Best money I have ever spent on training and learned way more than
I thought I would!
|
I agree with this 100%. I would also do a whole spin sequence with a
qualified instructor in type.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
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