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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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 Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:38 pm Post subject: XC machine |
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Dave McNeill, I could be resembling the same remark and as you all know, I am not about to shy away from Safety discussions on an aviation forum.
I love Scott’s posts and look forward to many more. Hope RV-10 builders are more passionate about open discussion than motorcycle dudes.
Just call me cynical that after more than 20 years as a pilot examiner the FAA still clings to a concept (Not acknowledged here) that Peer Pressure and Opinion has the most direct effect on changing pilot behavior to the benefit of future generations. As one who created a series of Safety Seminars to improve the gene pool, it became clear that the safe pilots often attend and the unsafe pilot’s tend to avoid participation and any effort to reach out to them. Offering opinions should always be encouraged.
After several years with accident investigations, I clung to (and will continue to cling to) the perverted but accurate phrase “The tree of life is self pruning”. “Hope springs eternal”. I watched on the sideline as literally scores of Lancair IV builders abandoned years of passion, effort and thousands of dollars as a few but measurable renegades crashed planes, maimed and killed themselves and others. They still suffer with the insurance industries efforts to maintain profitability without risk adjustments. Only the surviving gene pool pays future insurance rates set by those who go before them. RV-10 builders deserve to benefit from the lessons of others.
Wellness is underrated and someday rates will transfer the rightful burden to the correct insured’s who don’t follow sound principles. We are soon to have 100 flying and hopefully insured when the fly.
Now are there only a few of you who believe low fuel levels on landing make sense in the quest for a record? It appears I have lost another close aviation friend, Steve Fossett, today in his pursuit of yet another world record – the land speed record in Scott’s backyard.
Can you tell my frustration. Flame away. Not looking for support. Just more pilots with some common sense on an RV-10 reflector with over 1,000 readers.
John Cox
From: David McNeill [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 6:11 PM
To: John W. Cox
Subject: XC machine
Sounds like I am being called a flame thrower. Would you launch VFR (as a VFR pilot, my guess) into the last 10% of fuel and plan an arrival at 2AM? Just because he arrived safely does not mean it was a safe operation in my opinion. Every thing had to be right for it to work?
[quote][b]
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scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.co
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:21 pm Post subject: XC machine |
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John, Steve Fossett isn't lost yet is he? I have only read that he is missing. Apparently flying a Decathlon at the time. I sure hope they find him alive as well.
John, I have an question about insurance though and I'm hoping you can help me with them. What were main reasons for the increase in insurance rates over the past 5-7 years?
I understand that pressurized aircraft saw some of the highest increases. I also understand that many private pilots flying pressurized planes are required to attend Flight Safety training every year.
Another gentlemen just sold his Meridian at my airport. He said his insurance was $12,000 per year plus the cost of Flight Safety training for about a week. (Don't know what that costs)
Was this caused by an increase in accidents or due to poor piloting? I ask because I have a very hard time believing that pilots over the past 5-7 years are worse than pilots in the 10 years preceding it.
Also, I recently talked to an RV-6 owner here in Utah who was going to buy a completed RV-10 but didn't because he was required to have 250 hours total time and 20 hours of transition training, yet
he had no problems getting insurance for an RV-6A with under 100 hours total time. (This makes zero sense) When I started building in 2003 my initial quotes at the beginning of 2005 were 150 hours total and 1 hour of transition
training. By the time I had finished they wanted 200 hours and 10 hours, now it is 250 hours and 20 hours. There have been no accidents yet they continue to increase requirements and cost. It is data like this that makes me think that
our rates are not tied to other RV-10 owners but to the 4 place high performance market. Do you think that is right?
I hope my rates continue to go down as our fleet is shown to be the safest 4 place. 
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:00 am Post subject: XC machine |
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I hope there is nobody on the forum “who believe low fuel levels on landing make sense in the quest for a record”. Safe fuel levels on landing when traveling cross-country are strictly followed here and I hope by the rest of those flying, not just in RV-10’s. The ability to monitor fuel flow (and total burned) as well as having accurate fuel level senders and a pilot with almost 500 hours in the RV-10 and two people onboard doing nothing but monitoring weather and nearby airports within gliding distance makes for a very safe flight in a very efficient airplane.
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
From: John W. Cox [mailto:johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 10:38 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: XC machine
Dave McNeill, I could be resembling the same remark and as you all know, I am not about to shy away from Safety discussions on an aviation forum.
I love Scott’s posts and look forward to many more. Hope RV-10 builders are more passionate about open discussion than motorcycle dudes.
Just call me cynical that after more than 20 years as a pilot examiner the FAA still clings to a concept (Not acknowledged here) that Peer Pressure and Opinion has the most direct effect on changing pilot behavior to the benefit of future generations. As one who created a series of Safety Seminars to improve the gene pool, it became clear that the safe pilots often attend and the unsafe pilot’s tend to avoid participation and any effort to reach out to them. Offering opinions should always be encouraged.
After several years with accident investigations, I clung to (and will continue to cling to) the perverted but accurate phrase “The tree of life is self pruning”. “Hope springs eternal”. I watched on the sideline as literally scores of Lancair IV builders abandoned years of passion, effort and thousands of dollars as a few but measurable renegades crashed planes, maimed and killed themselves and others. They still suffer with the insurance industries efforts to maintain profitability without risk adjustments. Only the surviving gene pool pays future insurance rates set by those who go before them. RV-10 builders deserve to benefit from the lessons of others.
Wellness is underrated and someday rates will transfer the rightful burden to the correct insured’s who don’t follow sound principles. We are soon to have 100 flying and hopefully insured when the fly.
Now are there only a few of you who believe low fuel levels on landing make sense in the quest for a record? It appears I have lost another close aviation friend, Steve Fossett, today in his pursuit of yet another world record – the land speed record in Scott’s backyard.
Can you tell my frustration. Flame away. Not looking for support. Just more pilots with some common sense on an RV-10 reflector with over 1,000 readers.
John Cox
From: David McNeill [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 6:11 PM
To: John W. Cox
Subject: XC machine
Sounds like I am being called a flame thrower. Would you launch VFR (as a VFR pilot, my guess) into the last 10% of fuel and plan an arrival at 2AM? Just because he arrived safely does not mean it was a safe operation in my opinion. Every thing had to be right for it to work? [quote] [b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:24 am Post subject: XC machine |
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The correlation on insurance rate increases were and continue to be a direct result of exorbitant settlements by the surviving family members of “harmed” parties brought about by teams of aggressive professionals in a judicial system gone amuck. Tort reform is sorely needed. Dialog about attorneys is only fodder for cocktail jokes. The pain is just not great enough yet to pilots yet. Anyone out their follow the results of the late Governor Carnahan and what his widow ‘s professional advisors did after that pilot error incident? Millions upon millions claimed against every component used in the aircraft. The report showed pilot error.
Anyone remember the settlement against Lycoming on the crankshaft lawsuit in Texas? That was treble damages in the tens of millions. The price of litigation is understandably spread to those who can pay. The individuals who buy the product after the tort system equitably distributes the wealth foot the bill. Now should the professional every get more than 10% many get 40%.
Every year the age of pilots jumps faster than the calendar pages turn. Every year the cost of aviation makes it harder to continue. Thank heavens for kit builders or only a handful could afford the new half million dollar entry aircraft being charged for liability costs. Even the new Lancair Evolution is going to cost $1,000,000 for a kit built. Boy do I think the RV-10 is a great deal.
In the case of kit builders of Lancair IV, not all were pressurized. Almost every incident which became classified as a fatal accident had stratospheric claims of aircraft value. Just a month ago here in Oregon the pilot delivering it for Pre Purchase inspection and selling it for just under one half million. Way too many of those accidents were the loss of life of both the pilot and additional members onboard. 4 is a lot worse than one or two. Just last week another went down in Cameron Park, CA with six bodies in a four passenger aircraft. You’re the one’s that will pay for that excursion. It has been found that lots of money, chasing professional builders of kit aircraft often mate with low time pilots for the purchase of complex aircraft. It is not unanticipated the unintended conclusion which come together with concentric circles collide on the lap of every pilot. Now it is coming to the attention of insurance actuaries. In an effort to bring sanity to aviation, many high ticket aircraft insurers began requiring professional pilot training specific to Manufacturer, Make and Model. An instrument rating backed by regular competency became expected. More hours leads them to believe there is less chance of a repeat of claims. The Lancair guys regularly review the accident reports for patterns. We should not assume that RV-10s are exempt from the same considerations.
More and more low time pilots fly highly complex aircraft without adequate and frequent High Performance Training. Transition Training is not the same as Factory sponsored High Performance Training. It is time many builders responded to Deems request to begin a sound curriculum, solicit the best instruction and lobby responsible insurance companies to participate and help underwrite a pool of proactive builders. The last thing we need is fewer underwriters and more professional tort specialists trying to redirect personal wealth as the other 700 builders try to join the ranks of the first 100 that are flying.
My crystal ball says – Private Pilot 500 hours+, IFR ticket with 100 hours logged actual and 50 hours per year of currency in Make and Model with successful completion of High Performance Procedures annually. In the next five years that could grow to 1000+, IFR with 250 hours and no less than 10 hours of Dual specific to High Performance in make and model. Just wait till the tort boys get a hold of the professional builders for hire when the first one of those makes headlines. Who was that builders “manufacturer’s” name again?
We will be the ones footing whatever the bill comes to. Want to bet the percentage of builders who will operate “Uncovered”?
John
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 8:21 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RE: XC machine
John, Steve Fossett isn't lost yet is he? I have only read that he is missing. Apparently flying a Decathlon at the time. I sure hope they find him alive as well.
John, I have an question about insurance though and I'm hoping you can help me with them. What were main reasons for the increase in insurance rates over the past 5-7 years?
I understand that pressurized aircraft saw some of the highest increases. I also understand that many private pilots flying pressurized planes are required to attend Flight Safety training every year.
Another gentlemen just sold his Meridian at my airport. He said his insurance was $12,000 per year plus the cost of Flight Safety training for about a week. (Don't know what that costs)
Was this caused by an increase in accidents or due to poor piloting? I ask because I have a very hard time believing that pilots over the past 5-7 years are worse than pilots in the 10 years preceding it.
Also, I recently talked to an RV-6 owner here in Utah who was going to buy a completed RV-10 but didn't because he was required to have 250 hours total time and 20 hours of transition training, yet
he had no problems getting insurance for an RV-6A with under 100 hours total time. (This makes zero sense) When I started building in 2003 my initial quotes at the beginning of 2005 were 150 hours total and 1 hour of transition
training. By the time I had finished they wanted 200 hours and 10 hours, now it is 250 hours and 20 hours. There have been no accidents yet they continue to increase requirements and cost. It is data like this that makes me think that
our rates are not tied to other RV-10 owners but to the 4 place high performance market. Do you think that is right?
I hope my rates continue to go down as our fleet is shown to be the safest 4 place.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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