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firewall penetration

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clemwehner(at)sbcglobal.n
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject: firewall penetration

I'm installing my  912 in a KF IV and have a question that seems really dumb, but I can't find an  answer in anything I've read. 

  

 What is the proper  way to pass things like wires, hoses, and tubing through the firewall?  Is  it through simple rubber grommets, or is there a special fitting used?  

  

 thanks,

  

 Clem  Wehner

 KFIV-912

 Lawton,  OK

    [quote][b]

john(at)leptron.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject: firewall penetration

Clem,  

For everything except my thermocouple wires, I used computer type 9 and 14 pin connecters.  

   

John Oakley  

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of clemwehner

 Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 4:51 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: firewall penetration   

  

     

I'm installing my 912 in a KF IV and have a question that seems really dumb, but I can't find an answer in anything I've read.   

    

   

    

What is the proper way to pass things like wires, hoses, and tubing through the firewall?  Is it through simple rubber grommets, or is there a special fitting used?   

    

   

    

thanks,  

    

   

    

Clem Wehner  

    

KFIV-912  

    

Lawton, OK  

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        [quote][b]

dcsfoto

Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 120

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: firewall penetration

Aircraft spruce has some nice plastic snap bushings,page 94



do not archive

Mdkitfox(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:32 pm Post subject: firewall penetration

In a message dated 9/8/2007 6:53:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  clemwehner(at)sbcglobal.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     What is the proper    way to pass things like wires, hoses, and tubing through the firewall?     Is it through simple rubber grommets, or is there a special fitting    used? 

	


 

It seems to me the firewall must remain intact.  If there were a  fire, it could pass thru a plain rubber or plastic grommet.  I used  the Kitfox firewall blanket first then inserted a stainless steel  eyeball for most pass thru's.  For the rubber and plastic pass  thru's I covered them all with high temp RTV.  It may not  keep all the fire out, but it would hopefully keep it to a minimum.

  

 Rick  Weiss

Series V Speedster - N39RW, 912S Power



DO NOT  ARCHIVE



See what's t="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.

  [quote][b]

marin

Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 16
Location: Stanwood WA

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject: firewall penetration

Clem  

   

You should keep your firewall integrity at all times and use hardware that will help you maintain it.  

   

Check out Aircraft spruce for fire wall blankest and stainless steel firewall shields. Try the link bellow. Also talk to the local EAA chapter and see if they have any technical advisers.  

   

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ap/firewalls.html  

     

Marin Streeter  

  

   

--

_________________
Marin

pwmac(at)sisna.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 7:23 pm Post subject: firewall penetration

Special fitting is required. Never use rubber.

 As with all things electrical check out the archives of the aeroelectric list on matronics. This subject has been beat to death.

  Another resource are the Bingillis how to do books which are sold by EAA.

  Regards, Paul

 ========================



 [quote]On Behalf Of clemwehner

 Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 3:51 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: firewall penetration

  

 I'm installing my 912 in a KF IV and have a question that seems really dumb, but I can't find an answer in anything I've read. 

  

 What is the proper way to pass things like wires, hoses, and tubing through the firewall?  Is it through simple rubber grommets, or is there a special fitting used? 

  

 thanks,

  

 Clem Wehner

 KFIV-912

 Lawton, OK

 [b]

barry(at)pgtc.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 2:34 am Post subject: firewall penetration

I used the screw together electrical fittings that  are available from any electrical supply company.  They have rubber  stoppers in them that can be split if needed to fit around tubes and wires  and are compressed with the outside nut.  They also have a jam nut to  firmly attach to the firewall.  This is not a good description but go to a  supplier and ask to see the feedthroughs that are used on junction  boxes.

  

 Barry West

 [quote]   ---

hflynn46531(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:08 am Post subject: firewall penetration

You should get FAA AC 43.13-1b Aircraft Inspection and Repair Manual. It's the aircraft mechanics Bible. Published by Jeppesen. I think I paid about $20.00 For it. Answered most of my questions when I built my S5. I'm now restoring a J3 cub. Couldn't do it right without this manual.



Barry West <barry(at)pgtc.com> wrote:  [quote]        I used the screw together electrical fittings that are available from any electrical supply company.  They have rubber stoppers in them that can be split if needed to fit around tubes and wires and are compressed with the outside nut.  They also have a jam nut to firmly attach to the firewall.  This is not a good description but go to a supplier and ask to see the feedthroughs that are used on junction  boxes.

   

  Barry West

  [quote]  ---

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:29 am Post subject: firewall penetration

At 03:51 PM 9/8/2007, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I'm installing my 912 in a KF IV and have a question that seems really dumb, but I can't find an answer in anything I've read. 

  	
It's funny how people think the hard questions are really dumb. No such luck this time Clem. If you want to see a "hot" topic, fire this one up on the Lancair or AeroElectric list. You'll get weeks of discussion. This means that if you want to read about virtually every possible penetration technique you should do extensive searching there.  www.lancair.net/maillist.html for Lancair and  www.matronics.com/searching/search.html for AeroElectric.



  	  Quote: 	
		  What is the proper way to pass things like wires, hoses, and tubing through the firewall?  Is it through simple rubber grommets, or is there a special fitting used? 	


 As has been stated, the primary concerns are chafe and fire. You want a penetration that will allow the items to pass without being cut over time while not allowing something like a 1600F flame to pass after 15 minutes. There are also considerations of convenience, such as putting bulkhead electrical connectors so everything firewall forward can be disconnected. (You'll find these are heavily disparaged by the reliability set who don't like unnecessary connectors.)



 I can't give you a shopping list, as I became overwhelmed when I tried it during my build. I did find two items which may be of use to you, however. The first is  www.epm-avcorp.com/tubeseal.html, which is the only penetration I could find anywhere, (including mil-spec,) that was tested for fire. I used at least one of these and would have used them more extensively if I'd have found them earlier.



 The other item is 3M™ Fire Barrier MP+ STIX . These are available at contractor supply stores and on-line. It is: 



 "A synthetic elastomer designed for use as a one part, intumescent fire resistive putty used to restore the integrity of fire rated building construction. Stays pliable, allows easy access for cable mining at a later date."



 I molded this around my existing rubber grommet penetrations in the hope that it would delay burning of the grommet and subsequent fire entry. The specs indicate that when subjected to fire the putty expands and chars, forming a very high temperature barrier.



 My grommet penetrations used standard AN931 rubber grommets covered by Aircraft Spruce firewall shields. ( www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ap/firewalls.html) I then covered the exposed rubber + 1/4" around with the putty.



 Good luck and report back when you've decided!



 

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.     [quote][b]

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

barry(at)pgtc.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:19 am Post subject: firewall penetration

Harold, I think your idea of referring to FAA AC  43.13-1b is good but I just reviewed my copy and could not find information on  feeding through the firewall.  Can you give me the section and page number  where I can find this?

  

 Barry West

 [quote]   ---

darinh

Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 327
Location: Utah

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:53 am Post subject: Re: firewall penetration

My firewall for my Series 7 came with a number of holes in it for wires, cables, etc.  My main question is with the heater.  This thing mounts right behind the firewall with the supply and return fittings passing through.  What have people done in this situation for fireproofing?

_________________
Darin Hawkes
Series 7
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah

hflynn46531(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:29 am Post subject: firewall penetration

I looked in the manual and it does not address that subject. What I used was a rubber grommet and a stainless steel firewall shield which I got from Aircraft Spuce. They also sell nylon bulkhead seals for the same purpose. In the 2006-2007 catalog pages 135-294 and 436 you should find what you need



Barry West <barry(at)pgtc.com> wrote:  [quote]    Harold, I think your idea of referring to FAA AC 43.13-1b is good but I just reviewed my copy and could not find information on feeding through the firewall.  Can you give me the section and page number where I can find this?

   

  Barry West

  [quote]  ---

dave.wahlquist(at)ics.uwe
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:15 am Post subject: firewall penetration

Hey all,  

Sport Aviation Dec 2006 had a good article on firewall penetrations.  

 They did some great flame testing to prove out what worked best to keep the fire and fumes on the engine side of the firewall.  

     

Dave Wahlquist 

 Model 3 582 Wisconsin  

        

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harold Flynn

 Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 7:27 AM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: firewall penetration   

  

   

I looked in the manual and it does not address that subject. What I used was a rubber grommet and a stainless steel firewall shield which I got from Aircraft Spuce. They also sell nylon bulkhead seals for the same purpose. In the 2006-2007 catalog pages 135-294 and 436 you should find what you need

 

 Barry West <barry(at)pgtc.com> wrote:     

Harold, I think your idea of referring to FAA AC 43.13-1b is good but I just reviewed my copy and could not find information on feeding through the firewall.  Can you give me the section and page number where I can find this?  

    

   

    

Barry West  

  [quote]    

---

akanka(at)kiamichiwb.org
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:25 pm Post subject: firewall penetration

The  entire FAA Advisory Circular library, with all current changes, is available on  line at:

  

 http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet

  

 Just  select how you would like them displayed from the links on the left side of the  page.  For example,

 clicking on "Current ACs" presents sub-list that has:             [url=http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/ACNumber!OpenView]By        Number[/url]        [url=http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/ACDate!OpenView]By        Date[/url]               [url=http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/ACPart!OpenView]By        FAR, CAR, SFAR Part[/url]

        

       Clicking on "By Number" presents the ACs in numerical order.         This link will display the list numerically:

        

       http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet

        

       There are several pages to the list.  Clicking either "Next"        at the top of the list, or "MORE" at the bottom will 

       take you to the next page of the list.

        

       Each AC can be saved to your hard drive, put on a CD or any other        way you would like to save them for reference without internet        connection.

        

       John Hart

        



  

 [quote]   --

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