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AOA for your Dynon

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tshankland(at)sbcglobal.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject: AOA for your Dynon

For all of you who have or are thinking of buying the Dynon and think 

you would like to be able to use the angle of  attack indicator it 

doesn't have to cost another $200. I bought my Dynon for the attitude 

display and everything else was gravy. It wasn't until after I was 

flying with it I even realized that it have the AOA option. Being a 

builder oh and cheap too, I though $200 was a lot to pay so I looked 

into Dynon's and other AOA devices. Well anyway I made my own probe, 

cost nothing time about an hour or so and I can report it works great. 

Attached are a couple of pictures of the installation. The trick to ease 

of fabrication is that I used copper tubing, easier to solder together. 

The pitot tube is at a right angle to the support tube and the 

additional tube is angled 45 degrees down. To hold it I made a slot in 

the circular piece of 1/8 inch aluminum, I used my mill but it can be 

done with a drill and careful file work.. Mine as a snug fit to which I 

added epoxy. By the way don't start on how that copper is going to 

corrode with the aluminum I keep my plane inside and dry and I haven't 

seen any at other interfaces in the past year.



Tim Shankland

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Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:13 am Post subject: Re: AOA for your Dynon

I have a couple of questions.



1. Have you flown with it yet?

2. Where is it in relation to the standard 601 Pitot/Static probe?

3. It looks alot like the standard probe. DO you see any reason that the standard probe, that comes in the kit, couldn't be modified into you design?

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

tshankland(at)sbcglobal.n
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:05 pm Post subject: AOA for your Dynon

Gig,

To answer your questions



1.  Yes I have flown with it, I did a series of stalls as indicated in 

the Dynon instructions for calibrating the unit. I have also flown it 

twice since and the indicator on the Dynon gives a steady reliable response.



2.  It is the pitot tube. The Dynon used the pitot tube as one of the 

references and the angled tube as the other. All this or any other AOA 

is is a sum of the vector magnitudes of the air in each tube. It can be 

shown mathematically, and I have, That with the two probes as shown 

there is a linear relationship between the angle of attack and the their 

pressure differential.



3.  It is a duplicate of a standard probe, the only reason I  used 

copper is that it was easier to solder them together. You could use the 

existing pitot and add the second probe you just have to fasten them 

together. tie wraps?



Gig Giacona wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



I have a couple of questions.



1. Have you flown with it yet?

2. Where is it in relation to the standard 601 Pitot/Static probe?

3. It looks alot like the standard probe. DO you see any reason that the standard probe, that comes in the kit, couldn't be modified into you design?



--------

W.R. &quot;Gig&quot; Giacona

601XL Under Construction

See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135047#135047

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:43 am Post subject: Re: AOA for your Dynon

Let me ask this another way. On the pitot/static probe that Zenith ships the pitot is one of the tubes and the static is the other and they are connected together like yours but without the 45 degree bend on the other tube. Also the static probe end is blocked and there are a 2 or 3 small holes for the port.



I'm wondering if I could drill out the block in the end, fill the small holes and add the 45 degree angle and use it? It sounds like I could.



This would save a lot of problems, because I've already drilled for the Zenith mount. And would cost nothing because I've already paid for the zenith p/s probe.



 	  tshankland(at)sbcglobal.n wrote: 	
		  

3.  It is a duplicate of a standard probe, the only reason I  used 

copper is that it was easier to solder them together. You could use the 

existing pitot and add the second probe you just have to fasten them 

together. tie wraps?

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

tshankland(at)sbcglobal.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:51 pm Post subject: AOA for your Dynon

Gig,

 Sounds like a plan, I have not seen the Zenith pitot, I scratch built my plane, but it sounds like it should work, the hardest part was pulling that extra tube through a finished wing.

 

 Tim

 

 Gig Giacona wrote:

 [quote]    	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> (wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net)



Let me ask this another way. On the pitot/static probe that Zenith ships the pitot is one of the tubes and the static is the other and they are connected together like yours but without the 45 degree bend on the other tube. Also the static probe end is blocked and there are a 2 or 3 small holes for the port.



I'm wondering if I could drill out the block in the end, fill the small holes and add the 45 degree angle and use it? It sounds like I could.



This would save a lot of problems, because I've already drilled for the Zenith mount. And would cost nothing because I've already paid for the zenith p/s probe.

tshankland(at)sbcglobal.n wrote:

        	  Quote: 	
		  3.  It is a duplicate of a standard probe, the only reason I  used 

copper is that it was easier to solder them together. You could use the 

existing pitot and add the second probe you just have to fasten them 

together. tie wraps?

    	
   



--------

W.R. &quot;Gig&quot; Giacona

601XL Under Construction

See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135245#135245



  	
 [b]

Dave Nixon

Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 25

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: AOA for your Dynon

I have the Zenith supplied pitot with static tube attached and I have run two tubes to the panel. I have decided to use the Zenith supplied tubes and test.  That is, I will plumb the pitot to the correct connection and then connect the static to the two ports (in parallel) on the back of the Dynon.  From what I read in the install manual, it wants to get static (not dynamic) air and that second tube from Zenith should provide that, without modification, to both ports. If not, where am I going wrong?

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: AOA for your Dynon

There are three ports on the back of the Dynon. Pitot, Static and AOA. The AOA is basically another pitot at another angle so the difference between the two is how the Dynon calcs the angle of attack. If you aren't using the AOA then it isn't a concern. 



 	  Dave Nixon wrote: 	
		  I have the Zenith supplied pitot with static tube attached and I have run two tubes to the panel. I have decided to use the Zenith supplied tubes and test.  That is, I will plumb the pitot to the correct connection and then connect the static to the two ports (in parallel) on the back of the Dynon.  From what I read in the install manual, it wants to get static (not dynamic) air and that second tube from Zenith should provide that, without modification, to both ports. If not, where am I going wrong?

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

Dave Nixon

Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 25

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: AOA for your Dynon

I guess the point is that I want to use the AOA on the Dynon without adding another pitot.  Will not the static tube that Zenith provided work for the AOA on the Dynon? Reqading the Duynon test procedures, it just 'senses' the difference between dynamic and static in different settings so that it tells the on board computer what is going on in different flight configurations. I believe that the Zenith supplied static tube would fullfill this requirement.  But I don't know for sure.

tshankland(at)sbcglobal.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:32 pm Post subject: AOA for your Dynon

Dave,

The way the AOA works is by doing a sum of the vector magnitudes of two 

pitots. If there is no difference in the orientation of the probes you 

cannot resolve that angle. The AOA does not use the static port that is 

used for airspeed the AOA uses the differential between the two probes.

The AOA is not measuring the airspeed but the angle at which the air is 

approaching the wing. This angle can be correlated with the stall of the 

wing.

Tim Shankland

Dave Nixon wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



I guess the point is that I want to use the AOA on the Dynon without adding another pitot.  Will not the static tube that Zenith provided work for the AOA on the Dynon? Reqading the Duynon test procedures, it just 'senses' the difference between dynamic and static in different settings so that it tells the on board computer what is going on in different flight configurations. I believe that the Zenith supplied static tube would fullfill this requirement.  But I don't know for sure.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135692#135692

lwinger

Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 229
Location: Tustin, CA

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:41 pm Post subject: AOA for your Dynon

I don't have my Dynon unit yet, but I've been doing research and actually purchased the combo pitot/AOA probe from them.  Don't confuse the static source and the AOA portion of the probe.  They are completely different in size, shape and orientation.   

  

 As I understand it, the AOA computation is derived solely from inputs from the pitot tube (horizontal) and the AOA port tube (pointed approx. 45 degrees down), both located in the same combo probe.  The pressure differential mirrors what is happening with the wing.  Your static source is a different animal and can be achieved in several ways, but they are not related to AOA. 

  

 Larry Winger

 Tustin, CA

 601XL/Corvair



 

 On 9/21/07, Dave Nixon <adnasap(at)bellsouth.net (adnasap(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote: [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Nixon" <adnasap(at)bellsouth.net  (adnasap(at)bellsouth.net)>



I guess the point is that I want to use the AOA on the Dynon without adding another pitot.  Will not the static tube that Zenith provided work for the AOA on the Dynon? Reqading the Duynon test procedures, it just 'senses' the difference between dynamic and static in different settings so that it tells the on board computer what is going on in different flight configurations. I believe that the Zenith supplied static tube would fullfill this requirement.  But I don't know for sure. 



[b]

_________________
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
Plans building 601XL/650 with Corvair
Installing fuel system
www.mykitlog.com/lwinger

Dave Nixon

Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 25

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:27 am Post subject: Re: AOA for your Dynon

Thanks.  Now I get it.  So I can modify the Zenith Static probe ( cut off the plug and bend down 45 degrees approximate and plug the small static ports drilled into the tube) to get the desired results.  then I can add a static system similar to what Cessna has on the sides of the fuselage.  Thanks for the input which should eliminate hours of aggravation.

Dave Nixon

Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 25

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:29 am Post subject: Re: AOA for your Dynon

Thanks, Larry. See my previous response to Tim. Your info has helped immensely.

lwinger

Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 229
Location: Tustin, CA

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:39 am Post subject: AOA for your Dynon

In theory, that could work.  You might want to check with Dynon for specs on the angle, distance between ports, etc.

  

 Larry Winger

 Tustin, CA

 601XL/Corvair



 

 On 9/22/07, Dave Nixon <adnasap(at)bellsouth.net (adnasap(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote: [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Nixon" <adnasap(at)bellsouth.net  (adnasap(at)bellsouth.net)>



Thanks.  Now I get it.  So I can modify the Zenith Static probe ( cut off the plug and bend down 45 degrees approximate and plug the small static ports drilled into the tube) to get the desired results.  then I can add a static system similar to what Cessna has on the sides of the fuselage.  Thanks for the input which should eliminate hours of aggravation. 



[b]

_________________
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
Plans building 601XL/650 with Corvair
Installing fuel system
www.mykitlog.com/lwinger

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