Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Non-LSA ops limits

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

a.s.elliott(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:33 pm Post subject: Non-LSA ops limits

Gang:

  

 If I plan to certify my plane experimental, but not light sport, what are  reasonable values for max gross and G limits?

  

 Also, does anyone know if the CG envelope has any gross weight  dependence?  That is, do the CG limits change with load?

  

 Finally, is this information on the ZAC web site somewhere?  I  couldn't find it.

  

 Thanks,

 Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ

N601GE (reserved)

601XL/TD/QB, Corvair,  building...

   [quote][b]

- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Non-LSA ops limits

You don't have to certify a plane as a LSA in order to fly it as one.... it just has to meet the requirements.



As to max gross and G limits,  I would think you would have to go with those specified by the designer which would be 1320 lbs  and +6 -6 ultimate (although I've sometimes seen the ultimate - G load given as 3g's.



The info is on the first page of the plans as well as on Zenith's website.  I don't believe there is any change in gross wt limits based upon CG.



Check out http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/specification.html



Tim

- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

dfmoeller

Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 60
Location: Austin, TX

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Non-LSA ops limits

As to the Cg limitation, I asked the guys at Zenith this very question a couple of months ago.  The answer was that the Cg limits do not vary with loading, although if you do a search on this board, someone posted some English certifications that did, indeed, vary the Cg limits with weight.  This was with the CZAW built plane though, I believe, and they mount the engine considerably further forward, or that is my understanding.



Doug

- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List

Craig.Spainhower(at)exelo
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:34 pm Post subject: Non-LSA ops limits

Andy,

	If you don't care about being LSA compatible you should contact Zenith and get their concurrence on the increased gross weight. At least one lyc powered 601XL has been certified (in Canada) for a 1500' gross weight. I also heard Chris Heintz say  the plane can safely fly (at) 1500'. Be aware that once a gross weight higher than 1320' has been certified the plane can never be made LSA compatable.



Craig S.

N601XS, 601xl 0-235 lyc, wiring/plumbing in progress

If I plan to certify my plane experimental, but not light sport, what 

are reasonable values for max gross and G limits?



Also, does anyone know if the CG envelope has any gross weight 

dependence?  That is, do the CG limits change with load?



Finally, is this information on the ZAC web site somewhere?  I couldn't 

find it.



Thanks,

Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ



-----------------------------------------

**************************************************

This e-mail and any of its attachments may contain Exelon

Corporation proprietary information, which is privileged,

confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to the Exelon

Corporation family of Companies. 

This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or

entity to which it is addressed.  If you are not the intended

recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any

dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation

to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is strictly

prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this e-mail

in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently

delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout.

Thank You.

**************************************************

- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List

smoore

Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 10
Location: Lakewood, CO

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Non-LSA ops limits

So this brings up an interesting question I've never seen answered.



Lets say someone registers the airplane with a 1500lb gross weight.  The SP regulations say, "Maximum takeoff weight".  



If the SP never loads it up beyond 1320lb, is he legal?

- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List

_________________
--
Sean Moore
... re-evaluating mission

smoore

Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 10
Location: Lakewood, CO

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: Non-LSA ops limits

Ugh, nevermind.  If my question was legal, any 152 could be flown as a SP.



Silly me.

- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List

_________________
--
Sean Moore
... re-evaluating mission

malcolmhunt(at)mha1.fsbus
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:48 am Post subject: Non-LSA ops limits

Doug



I have looked at the two sets of drawings (Zenith v CZAW) and  the 

dimensions of the CZAW engine mount (Rotax) are almost identical the Zenith, 

CZAW do have an aluminium prop extension.



More of interest is that the CZAW aircraft have a different angle of 

incidence of the wing.  Looking at drawing 6-B-13 and the wing template the 

angles on the Zenith drawing are 81deg and 77.5 deg but on the CZAW drawing 

are 83deg and 75.5deg.   This is why there is a difference in cof g limits, 

according to UK agent this had been agreed with Chris Heintz.  My view when 

it comes to aerodynamics in all cases Build to the Drawings!

Best regards



Malcolm Hunt



CH601XL Plans builder in England.



---

- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List

dfmoeller

Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 60
Location: Austin, TX

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:50 am Post subject: Re: Non-LSA ops limits

Malcolm,



I'd be very interested in what the CZAW drawings actually do show for the Rotax mount.  I got my info from a earlier post last year on this thread about a guy moving his engine forward to correct the rearward weight bias of the Rotax 601XL via use of the CZAW mount.  Caleb at Zenith also confirmed this to me in some correspondence at the first of this year.  He indicated at that time (January), that the lightweight FF Rotax package would mount further forward and told me just to sit tight for a bit.  I still have the email.  Do me a favor, search this forum for posts with my user name (dfmoeller).  At the bottom of the list look at these threads:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=24172&highlight=

New "European XL" from Zenith?

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=11210&highlight=

Weight & Balance



I'm really curious now just what the deal actually is.  I am in the middle of a large rebuilding project on mine and was hoping to rectify the weight issue by mounting the engine further forward.  I also would really like to know how the new lightweight engine mount is formed.  Take my word for it, if you are scratchbuilding, do everything you can to put a forward bias on the weight.  Also, if using the Zenith gear, mount them in the forward position.



Any chance you could scan a section of the CZAW drawings?



Doug



 	  malcolmhunt(at)mha1.fsbus wrote: 	
		  Doug



I have looked at the two sets of drawings (Zenith v CZAW) and  the 

dimensions of the CZAW engine mount (Rotax) are almost identical the Zenith, 

CZAW do have an aluminium prop extension.



More of interest is that the CZAW aircraft have a different angle of 

incidence of the wing.  Looking at drawing 6-B-13 and the wing template the 

angles on the Zenith drawing are 81deg and 77.5 deg but on the CZAW drawing 

are 83deg and 75.5deg.   This is why there is a difference in cof g limits, 

according to UK agent this had been agreed with Chris Heintz.  My view when 

it comes to aerodynamics in all cases Build to the Drawings!

Best regards



Malcolm Hunt



CH601XL Plans builder in England.



---

- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum