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AB_Summit

Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 23

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:49 pm Post subject: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?

Hi everyone,



I'm a new list member, my name is Randy and I live in Alberta, Canada. I was just wondering if it's realistic for a non-pilot to build a CH-701. 



I've always been interested in airplanes and aviation, and I started my private pilot licence training in 2005. I've got about 25 hours in a C172 and a Citabria. At that point I was in a major snowmobile accident and had to put my flight training on hold. I was off work and unable to walk for quite a while. In the mean time I lost my job because of my injuries, and my finances took a big hit.



I'm finally to the point of being healthy enough to start flying again, but now I can't really afford it. I had to relocate to find another job, and now my mortgage is bigger and my wages are smaller, and the cost of flight training is higher in the area I am in (a C152 is $110/hr solo and $158/hr dual.)



I can only afford to commit maybe a few hundred dollars a month to aviation, so I was thinking of building a CH-701 from plans, then when the plane is complete I would get either an ultralight permit or rec pilot permit to fly it. (Canadian ultralight rules are different than the US rules, a CH-701 can be flown in Canada with an ultralight permit, and the ultralight permit is a lot cheaper than a PPL.) I'd prefer a CH-801 but they don't sell plans for those. It might take me 5 or 10 years to build the plane, but then I'd have my own plane that I am intimately familiar with and it would be cheaper to maintain and operate than say a C150. For an engine I would look for a used Rotax 912.



I've got quite a few metal working tools already, and I have some metal working and fabrication experience from snowmobiles. I've got a garage to work in as well.



My plan would be to budget maybe $400 a month to the project, and I would split it up so that $200 would go into the airframe and $200 would go into the engine/instruments fund.



The budget for the first few months would go into buying plans, buying a couple of the "Homebuilt Help" DVD's, building a work table, building a Dave Clay brake, buying some Clecoes and basic tools, and then in a few months I'd be ready to buy some rivets and aluminum and get to building.



My questions are:



Is this a realistic plan?

Would 5 to 10 years be a realistic estimate of build time for a first timer building from plans?

What would the finished costs be of a plans built CH-701 with a used 912 and basic VFR instruments?

Is there somewhere (preferably in Canada) that I could go to get some dual time and maybe even an ultralight permit in a CH-701?



Thanks in advance for all the help,

Randy

bill_dom(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:44 pm Post subject: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?

If that is not a realistic plan I'm in big trouble. I'm a non-pilog building a Zodiac 601XL from plans, at least you have 25 hours I have none. I was 11 years old when I flew in a GA aircraft for the first and only time in my life (a cessna 120). I have estimated 7 years for my project and I started 1 year ago. 

   

  I'm planning to go to flight school when the project is 1 or 2 years away from completion, starting now will take time away from building.

   

  As for cost, you couldl save several thowsands if you consider the Corvair option. By the time you finish there will be plenty of 701/Corvair already flying to give you some level of confidence in the combination.

   

  William Dominguez

  Zodiac 601XL Plans

  Miami, Florida



AB_Summit <rengler(at)telus.net> wrote:

  [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: "AB_Summit" 



Hi everyone,



I'm a new list member, my name is Randy and I live in Alberta, Canada. I was just wondering if it's realistic for a non-pilot to build a CH-701. 



I've always been interested in airplanes and aviation, and I started my private pilot licence training in 2005. I've got about 25 hours in a C172 and a Citabria. At that point I was in a major snowmobile accident and had to put my flight training on hold. I was off work and unable to walk for quite a while. In the mean time I lost my job because of my injuries, and my finances took a big hit.



I'm finally to the point of being healthy enough to start flying again, but now I can't really afford it. I had to relocate to find another job, and now my mortgage is bigger and my wages are smaller, and the cost of flight training is higher in the area I am in (a C152 is $110/hr  solo and $158/hr dual.)



I can only afford to commit maybe a few hundred dollars a month to aviation, so I was thinking of building a CH-701 from plans, then when the plane is complete I would get either an ultralight permit or rec pilot permit to fly it. (Canadian ultralight rules are different than the US rules, a CH-701 can be flown in Canada with an ultralight permit, and the ultralight permit is a lot cheaper than a PPL.) I'd prefer a CH-801 but they don't sell plans for those. It might take me 5 or 10 years to build the plane, but then I'd have my own plane that I am intimately familiar with and it would be cheaper to maintain and operate than say a C150. For an engine I would look for a used Rotax 912.



I've got quite a few metal working tools already, and I have some metal working and fabrication experience from snowmobiles. I've got a garage to work in as well.



My plan would be to budget maybe $400 a month to the project, and I would split it up  so that $200 would go into the airframe and $200 would go into the engine/instruments fund.



The budget for the first few months would go into buying plans, buying a couple of the "Homebuilt Help" DVD's, building a work table, building a Dave Clay brake, buying some Clecoes and basic tools, and then in a few months I'd be ready to buy some rivets and aluminum and get to building.



My questions are:



Is this a realistic plan?

Would 5 to 10 years be a realistic estimate of build time for a first timer building from plans?

What would the finished costs be of a plans built CH-701 with a used 912 and basic VFR instruments?

Is there somewhere (preferably in Canada) that I could go to get some dual time and maybe even an ultralight permit in a CH-701?



Thanks in advance for all the help,

Randy





Read this topic online [quote][b]

mrcc1234(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:03 pm Post subject: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?

Yes!



I am sort of in the same boat.



I am very close to soloing in a Warrior and have started construction on my

XLVair.  I am either going to get my sport pilot or keep going until I get

my PP.  If SP I can fly off my phase 1 time and then use my plane to finish

up my PP.



I am building from plans and am gathering parts to close my engine case up.

I parted out a motorcycle to get the plans and save every penny I can for

the next need.  I seem to spend more time trying to find the things I need

than building.  Hopefully that will reverse before to long.



Never give up on your dreams.  Every day you do something is one day closer

than before.  I may take 5+ years to finish this thing up, but that does not

seem to matter much to me.  Lots seems to get in the way with a family and a

job, but I am having a blast.



Happy building and flying,

Matt in Katy TX

XLVair (1%)




Hi everyone,



I'm a new list member, my name is Randy and I live in Alberta, Canada. I was

just wondering if it's realistic for a non-pilot to build a CH-701.

dougsnash(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:11 pm Post subject: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?

Well first Randy, welcome to the group.  Secondly, my

opinions expressed here will be from a Canadian

perspective (if that makes a difference).   Since the

CH-701 fits our Ultralight regulations so well, that

is an economical way to get into aviation.  I don't

know of any 701s being used for flight training in

western Canada so I can't help you there.  Although I

theoretically might be there at some point since I'm a

UL instructor and am building a 701.



As for the cost, that depends on how you set your

plane up.  The biggest single expense will be the 912

engine.  Bob Robertson in St. Albert, AB would be a

good place to start to get a good deal on a used 912. 

He is a really good guy and might know of some flight

training options out your way too.  Realistically, if

you can get a good deal on the engine it is likely you

can build for somewhere in the $20,000 to $25,000. 

Again, it really depends on how much the engine costs.



A couple of guys have mentioned using the Corvair as

an economical engine choice.  It is an excellent

economical engine option for the 601, the designer

(Chris Heintz) has specifically said (his mouth to my

ears) the Corvair engine is too heavy for the 701. 

That does not mean it will not work but it is not a

bolt on installation that the 912 engine is.  Yes,

I'll put my aspestose undies now cause I'll likely get

flamed for that statement.



What you will likely find is that there will be as

many opinions from this list as there are members. 

That is one of wonderful things about expirimental

aviation.



As for build time, it depends on how much time you can

commit to the project.  I'm scratch building and am

about 1.25 yrs into the build.  I have the fuse on the

gear, tail feathers built but not fully mounted. 

Spars built and ribs clecoed to make the wing

skeleton.  I figure, realistically, sometime next

summer I'll be ready for flight.  



Best of luck with your potential project



Doug MacDonald

CH-701 Scratch Builder

NW Ontario, Canada





 	  Quote: 	
		   My questions are:

 

 Is this a realistic plan?

 Would 5 to 10 years be a realistic estimate of build

 time for a first timer building from plans?

 What would the finished costs be of a plans built

 CH-701 with a used 912 and basic VFR instruments?

 Is there somewhere (preferably in Canada) that I

 could go to get some dual time and maybe even an

 ultralight permit in a CH-701?

 

 Thanks in advance for all the help,

 Randy

 


	


 

No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go 

with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail

zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:11 pm Post subject: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?

Sorry group, I got long winded again.

Hi Randy, I am sure by now you have read Matt's and Paul's differing

responses, both have valaid points from their own perspective.



For me my opinion is closer to Matt's, I see day in and day out that

weither or not you’re a pilot, both interested prospective builders ask

the same questions. Both parties are interested in the specs and how it

handles. Both are affected by appearance and building techniques. In

other words, I have found that in most cases both types tend to do their

homework. The only difference I see is how much I may have to explain to

someone, it is easy to judge in the first few seconds if I have to

explain what deheidral is or not. Then go from there, Preference be

known, I typically love it when the interested party has their spouce

along with them. Though some spouces are pilots ( very easy to spot)

most are not and quite a few are being dragged to look at all the

planes. This allows me a chance to explain everything to the spouce even

if the husband is a pilot and oftentimes I can answer questions that

someone is afraid to ask( afraid to look as if they are asking a dumb

question) ( for the record there is no such thing in my books, if you

don't know it then please ask).



SO is not being a pilot a bad thing, not if your interested in a Zenith

product, you all know our planes are docile enough to learn on and also

so much fun that you will not outgrow redily. I know everyone associated

with Zenith Kit aircrafts and I believe that each and every one involved

is of the highest moral values. In fact not a single one of us is a

salesman, we are all builders or flyers. Each and every one involved in

Zenith aircraft that you see at the shows is working on planes when not

at the shows. 



Many have built a Zenith aircraft and upon completion quite a few have

even learned to fly in there very own plane. Many pilots have chosen to

go the kiit aircraft route so they could afford to fly a lot more in a

brand new plane instead of flyign the minium per year to keep their

license in a 20-40 year old plane. However most pilots don't fly while

buildign and need re-currency training when ready to fly again.



No, I don't think it matters which way you proceed, go for the building

and enjoy every aspect it has to offer. When it is complete then you are

ready to transition into your new hobby of flying ! this approach makes

more sense to me personally. To go out and spend 60hrs gettign a license

just so you can mak ethe same decision on which plane is better for you

that I believe you would have made before, I feel is a bit of a waste. 



Truly after you have built your own plane, if you desire a different

model then I believe you didn't make a mistake the first time, you just

enjoyed the building process too much and wish to do it again. However,

now you have a brand new plane to fly until it is time for your engine

and panel in your next project. 



Jump in, do your research, ask every question you can think of. Check

out the companys background and ethics. But do it, don't wait till you

have this ready or that ready, you will always find excuses to do

something tomorrow. When tomorrow finally comes, will you look back and

smile and tell your stories? Or will you rock and stew with your

regrets.



That is my only sales pitch, if you want to fly ASAP buy a QBK if you

want to fly after a building adventure go with a kit. IF you can't

afford it then just buy the plans and build what you can until you can

afford a kit or you finished your plane from scratch. Just don't come up

with excuses to put it off, I truly get saddened when I see an old timer

come up to me in their electric scooters and tell me how sorry they are

they never started. Don't let anyone tell you you can't or shouldn't do

something. YOU can and you should if you want to.



Mark Townsend

Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.

president(at)can-zacaviation.com

www.can-zacaviation.com 

do not archive

--

zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?

Sorry Again group the last letter was sent without me reading it for

spelling or grammer. I look at the keys when I type not the screen so

errors creep in.  I have corrected the one below 



Mark Townsend

Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.

president(at)can-zacaviation.com

www.can-zacaviation.com 



do not archive

--

gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:42 pm Post subject: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?

Well said Mark. Sorry group for not trimming his message, but I couldn't

decide which to trim...



My only additional thought:  Orville and Wilbur only needed the dream.



Gary Boothe 

Cool, CA 

601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done, 

Tail done, wings done, working on c-section



--

Kevin Bonds

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 171
Location: Nashville, Tn

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:59 pm Post subject: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?

Same here. I’ve got 5 hours in my logbook. Like William, I plan on finishing/starting training when my project is 1 or 2 years from completion.   

     

Kevin Bonds  

Nashville TN  

601XL Plans building.  

http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds  

   

do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE   

     

   

    

   

  

        

  

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Dominguez

 Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 6:44 PM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?  

  

     

If that is not a realistic plan I'm in big trouble. I'm a non-pilog building a Zodiac 601XL from plans, at least you have 25 hours I have none. I was 11 years old when I flew in a GA aircraft for the first and only time in my life (a cessna 120). I have estimated 7 years for my project and I started 1 year ago.   

    

   

    

I'm planning to go to flight school when the project is 1 or 2 years away from completion, starting now will take time away from building.  

  

       [quote][b]

_________________
KevinBonds
Nashville, TN
Plans-building Zenith CH601XL w/Corvair Power
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds

bill_dom(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:04 am Post subject: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?



 	  Quote: 	
		  (Chris Heintz) has specifically said (his mouth to my

ears) the Corvair engine is too heavy for the 701. 

That does not mean it will not work but it is not a

bolt on installation that the 912 engine is.  Yes,

I'll put my aspestose undies now cause I'll likely get

flamed for that statement.

	
You won't get flamed for this, at least not from me and I'm the one who mentioned the Corvair option. You are correct in the fact that right now the Corvair is not an bolt on installation for the 701. However, by the time he is ready to make an engine decision some time in the future, it might be a bolt on installation with several one already flying. In other words, is not an option now but might be a proven option in the future. My suggestion was for him to keep an eye in the  development of the Corvair for the 701 that is currently underway.



William Dominguez

Zodiac 601XL Plans

Miami Florida

 [quote][b]

infow(at)mts.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:12 am Post subject: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?

Except for the spelling mistakes... well said Mark!  Couldn't have said it better...



R.D.(Ron) Leclerc

Plans(Scrap)  Builder CH701

Porsche Power  Belted  Redrive

Winnipeg,  MB Canada

infow(at)mts.net

7/17/2007 10:11:22 AM



-) 

-)

-)

-) Sorry group, I got long winded again.

-)

-)

-) Hi Randy, I am sure by now you have read Matt's and Paul's

-) differing responses, both have valaid points from their own

-) perspective.

-)

-) For me my opinion is closer to Matt's, I see day in and day out

-) that weither or not you're a pilot, both interested prospective

-) builders ask the same questions. Both parties are interested in

-) the specs and how it handles. Both are affected by appearance and

-) building techniques. In other words, I have found that in most

-) cases both types tend to do their homework. The only difference I

-) see is how much I may have to explain to someone, it is easy to

-) judge in the first few seconds if I have to explain what deheidral

-) is or not. Then go from there, Preference be known, I typically

-) love it when the interested party has their spouce along with

-) them. Though some spouces are pilots ( very easy to spot) most are

-) not and quite a few are being dragged to look at all the planes.

-) This allows me a chance to explain everything to the spouce even

-) if the husband is a pilot and oftentimes I can answer questions

-) that someone is afraid to ask( afraid to look as if they are

-) asking a dumb question) ( for the record there is no such thing in

-) my books, if you don't know it then please ask).

-)

-) SO is not being a pilot a bad thing, not if your interested in a

-) Zenith product, you all know our planes are docile enough to learn

-) on and also so much fun that you will not outgrow redily. I know

-) everyone associated with Zenith Kit aircrafts and I believe that

-) each and every one involved is of the highest moral values. In

-) fact not a single one of us is a salesman, we are all builders or

-) flyers. Each and every one involved in Zenith aircraft that you

-) see at the shows is working on planes when not at the shows.

-)

-) Many have built a Zenith aircraft and upon completion quite a few

-) have even learned to fly in there very own plane. Many pilots have

-) chosen to go the kiit aircraft route so they could afford to fly a

-) lot more in a brand new plane instead of flyign the minium per

-) year to keep their license in a 20-40 year old plane. However most

-) pilots don't fly while buildign and need re-currency training when

-) ready to fly again.

-)

-) No, I don't think it matters which way you proceed, go for the

-) building and enjoy every aspect it has to offer. When it is

-) complete then you are ready to transition into your new hobby of

-) flying ! this approach makes more sense to me personally. To go

-) out and spend 60hrs gettign a license just so you can mak ethe

-) same decision on which plane is better for you that I believe you

-) would have made before, I feel is a bit of a waste.

-)

-) Truly after you have built your own plane, if you desire a

-) different model then I believe you didn't make a mistake the first

-) time, you just enjoyed the building process too much and wish to

-) do it again. However, now you have a brand new plane to fly until

-) it is time for your engine and panel in your next project.

-)

-) Jump in, do your research, ask every question you can think of.

-) Check out the companys background and ethics. But do it, don't

-) wait till you have this ready or that ready, you will always find

-) excuses to do something tomorrow. When tomorrow finally comes,

-) will you look back and smile and tell your stories? Or will you

-) rock and stew with your regrets.

-)

-) That is my only sales pitch, if you want to fly ASAP buy a QBK if

-) you want to fly after a building adventure go with a kit. IF you

-) can't afford it then just buy the plans and build what you can

-) until you can afford a kit or you finished your plane from

-) scratch. Just don't come up with excuses to put it off, I truly

-) get saddened when I see an old timer come up to me in their

-) electric scooters and tell me how sorry they are they never

-) started. Don't let anyone tell you you can't or shouldn't do

-) something. YOU can and you should if you want to.

-)

-)

-) Mark Townsend

-) Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.

-) president(at)can-zacaviation.com

-) www.can-zacaviation.com

-) do not archive

-) --

cltvet(at)mail.ocis.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:50 am Post subject: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?

Are you really building scrap or are you building from scratch.

Lee

Do not archive



--

MaxNr(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:37 pm Post subject: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?

I so much wanted to keep my mouth shut on this but couldn't. Paul Mulwitz made some very good points and I mostly agree with him. I am on the other end of the scale; a retired pilot with varied experience and lots of hours. One of my current torments is the fuel system on my XL project. I have flown wildly different fuel systems over the years and tried to reject features of the worst and bring in features of the best. In my opinion. I took my ideas to my mentor. He is a Maintenance Inspector with the company I retired from. Decades of experience. He is a new private pilot and is building a Cub copy to ridiculously close tolerances. Goes overboard. He says my idea of a fuel system could work in a nuclear submarine. I went overboard. The point is that even with our different backgrounds, we need each other to center each other. I would think that any builder young or old should have someone that he can go to and have his crazy ideas set right. With enough people looking over your shoulder you should be fine. My friend suggests that I just copy the fuel system of the Piper Tomahawk that he learned in. 

 Do not archive

 Bob  XL/Lyc

 

 

**************************************

 Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour  [quote][b]

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?

Building an aircraft is an experience in itself. There is no need to be a pilot to do it. The only drawback I see to not being a pilot is that you might not have the motivation to finish that someone who is a pilot has. But that might not be the case.



I do think that you should do as much research as possible first to make sure that the plane you decide to build fits with what you are going to do with it AFTER you get trained. Knowing what you need in a plane is tough enough when you've been flying it takes lots of study when you haven't. In the Zenith world that pretty much means if you want to do much cross country you might consider the 601 over the 701. If low and slow is your desire then the 701 beats out the 601.



Good luck with what ever you choose.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?

The gut that started this said he had about 20 hours so he is  a pilot just not licensed. If I am correct he just had money problem. Inso far  as he is on this site I would say he has done his home work. I thus, vote to  tell him to enjoy his work.  Jerry of GA 

 DO NOT ARCHIVE



Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

  [quote][b]

AB_Summit

Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 23

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?

Thanks for all the replies, it gives me a lot to think about. I went ahead and ordered the DVD's "Scratchbuilding Basics" and "Metalworking 101" from Homebuilt Help this evening so I can learn more about the building process and the tools and techniques required. I'm also going to start scrounging for material to build a work table and a Dave Clay brake. I figure even if I don't commit to building an airplane I can always use another work bench and the brake would come in handy as well.



Once I have the DVD's and a table and brake, I will save up for a set of plans. I think I will ease into the process by attempting to scratch build a rudder and then decide if the building process is for me. If I decide not to build I can always sell the plans and DVD's and not be out too much money.



Thanks again for all the replies, I appreciate everyone's input.



Thanks

Randy

AB_Summit

Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 23

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:00 am Post subject: Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?

Hi everyone, 



Just wanted to post an update and ask a few more questions. I've received my Homebuilt Help DVD's and watched them many times over and the process looks doable. I've built a work table and have scrounged a bunch of metal to build a brake. I've ordered and received the 701 info pack from Can-Zac and it looks good. The guy I talked to at Can-Zac mentioned they may be having a rudder workshop in Edmonton which is fairly close to me so I am thinking about attending it.



I just have a few more questions, the main thing that concerns me is the high cost of the Rotax 912, I don't think I can afford to spend $15000 on an engine. I see that the 701 used to be powered by a Rotax 582, would that be a better option for me given my tight budget? I see 582's on Barnstormers for $3000 to $4000 quite regularly. I hardly ever see used 912's for sale in the couple months I've been looking. The performance wouldn't be as good as the 912, but there are a lot of old certified airplanes with the same gross weight as the 701 that fly on 65 HP... Taylorcraft's, Champ's, Cub's, Luscombe's, Vagabond's, etc.



My next question has to do with the test flying process... assuming I go ahead with the project and build an airplane, then go out and get licensed, I would think that as a low-time pilot and first time builder I wouldn't be very well qualified to be the test pilot. How do you go about finding someone to test fly your homebuilt airplane?



That's all for now,

Thanks

Randy

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:30 am Post subject: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?

Are you a member of a local EAA chapter? If you can find a good local chapter with several active builders you can tap into their experience and maybe even find a test pilot.



On Sep 23, 2007, at 1:00 PM, AB_Summit wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith-List message posted by: "AB_Summit" <rengler(at)telus.net (rengler(at)telus.net)>

Hi everyone, 

...

My next question has to do with the test flying process... assuming I go ahead with the project and build an airplane, then go out and get licensed, I would think that as a low-time pilot and first time builder I wouldn't be very well qualified to be the test pilot. How do you go about finding someone to test fly your homebuilt airplane?

That's all for now,

Thanks

Randy





	






 -- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

 



 [quote][b]

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
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Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?

You've had some flying experience so you obviously have a "feel" for what you are getting into.  In this age of "instant gratification" if you are willing to work for up to ten years to achieve your dream of flight then you have my respect.  You might want to consider trying to arrange a test flight in a 701 to help you decide if it is truly the aircraft that you want.



As far as flight testing and flight training is concerned, I don't know how many hours you'll have to fly off in Canada (in the US it is usually 40) so unless you've earned your license and acquired some experience I agree that a test pilot would be in order.  The suggestion of locating an EAA chapter or other group of like minded people is a good one.



One of life's greatest blessings is being able to fly.... my advice to you is to do whatever it takes.... you won't regret it.



Tim

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AB_Summit

Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 23

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?

Great suggestions, I don't think there is an EAA chapter near me, but I believe there is an RAA chapter which I think is the Canadian equivalent. I'm going to look into joining the local chapter.



Anybody have any thoughts on the 582?



Thanks

Randy

ProWash

Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 18

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?

Hello Randy,



I think the Rotax 582 in the Ch 701 can be a good choice for those of us on a budget.



I have been warned, but I am a rebel.  



I am currently planning to use a Rotax 583 snowmobile engine on the 701.  I know that reliability, fuel economy and horse power are all concerns with the 2 strokes.  My justification for the Rotax is as follows.

 

I have approximately 200 hours behind Rotax 503 and 582 without a hint of trouble.  I know what they want and how to moniter them.  I can handle maintenance and overhaul myself.  I am doing a zero time overhaul on this 583 now.

 

Total installed weight should be about 60 pounds lighter than 912 series.

 

The 583 with E-box, 3.47 ratio, 70 inch IVO 3 blade prop is supposed the produce about 97 HP and 475 pounds thrust.

 

The most compelling issue is cost.  I am estimating complete FWF cost at less than $5000, including engine purchase, Zero time overhaul, new gearbox, new prop, motor mount and cowl.  That's about 13K to 18K less than a good 912 UL installation.  I figure I can afford the extra 1 GPH in fuel burn.

Am I crazy or what?

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R Craig
North Central Arkansas
N701LR CH701 SP ELB
30 HRS into Phase One testing
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