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Battery cable size

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zsmith3rd(at)earthlink.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:38 pm Post subject: Battery cable size

do not archive



Mike,



I used #4 welding cable from the local welding supply.  Tough insulation, flexible, etc.

They also stock nice copper end terminals



Regards,

Zed/701/912/etc/90+%/blue scotchbrite pads

Geoff Heap

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 266
Location: Lindenwold, New Jersey

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Battery cable size

Zed. you've been 90% done for the last 4 years

Geoff 90% done            do not archive

pmaxpmax(at)HOTMAIL.COM
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:19 pm Post subject: Battery cable size

I think #4 Tefzel wire is a better choice than welding cable.  Tefzel insulation has been proven in aircraft over and over, and with welding cable, your gambling on the insulation.  Many builders use it, but why take the chance?



Phil Maxson

 601XL/Corvair

 Northwest New Jersey

   

 > Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:37:45 -0500

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: zsmith3rd(at)earthlink.net

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Battery cable size

 

 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd(at)earthlink.net>

 

 Mike,

 

 I used #4 welding cable from the local welding supply. Tough insulation, flexible, etc.

 They also stock nice copper end terminals

 

 Regards,

 Zed/701/912/etc/90+%/blue scotchbrite pads


	


Can you find the hidden words?  Take a break and play Seekadoo! Play now!  [quote][b]

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:20 pm Post subject: Battery cable size

Hi Phil,

You'd find #4 Tefzel is fairly rigid in bending and the same for fitting 

connectors.  Welding cable is flexible and durable to a fault and the 

wire is fine enough that connectors can

be soldered with excellent results.   There is no risk taken in using 

Welding Cable for battery to starter contactor and battery connections 

and it's much easier to lay up tight in corners and bends than Tefzel.  

Welding cable insulation is extremely durable as it get stepped on, 

driven over and will take an enormous amount of abuse.  That said, I'd 

not use anything but Tefzel for all light gage wiring jobs. 

I'm sure that welding cable costs less and can be had at Farm and Fleet 

Stores.



Larry McFarland  601HDS at www.macsmachine.com



Phil Maxson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I think #4 Tefzel wire is a better choice than welding cable.  Tefzel 

 insulation has been proven in aircraft over and over, and with welding 

 cable, your gambling on the insulation.  Many builders use it, but why 

 take the chance?



 Phil Maxson

 601XL/Corvair

 Northwest New Jersey

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:52 pm Post subject: Battery cable size

The biggest advantage of Tefzel is if you have a short and the wire 

burns up, the Tefzel won't emit toxic vapors like welding cable will. I 

used Tefzel everywhere inside the cabin. On the other hand, your battery 

will most likely be outside the cabin where toxic fumes are not going to 

be an issue. In that case the flexibility of welding cable can be useful.

LarryMcFarland wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Hi Phil,

 You'd find #4 Tefzel is fairly rigid in bending and the same for fitting 

 connectors.  Welding cable is flexible and durable to a fault and the 

 wire is fine enough that connectors can

 be soldered with excellent results.   There is no risk taken in using 

 Welding Cable for battery to starter contactor and battery connections 

 and it's much easier to lay up tight in corners and bends than Tefzel.  

 Welding cable insulation is extremely durable as it get stepped on, 

 driven over and will take an enormous amount of abuse.  That said, I'd 

 not use anything but Tefzel for all light gage wiring jobs. I'm sure 

 that welding cable costs less and can be had at Farm and Fleet Stores.

 Larry McFarland  601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

 Phil Maxson wrote:

> I think #4 Tefzel wire is a better choice than welding cable.  Tefzel 

> insulation has been proven in aircraft over and over, and with welding 

> cable, your gambling on the insulation.  Many builders use it, but why 

> take the chance?

>

> Phil Maxson

> 601XL/Corvair

> Northwest New Jersey

-- 

Bryan Martin

Zenith 601XL N61BM

Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive

Do Not Archive

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

purplemoon99(at)bellsouth
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:51 pm Post subject: Battery cable size

Bryan, my batery is in the cabin ,on the fire wall, passenger side. on the 

floor  the leads are about 6" long and they go back through the fire wall 

into the engine compartment to terminals that go to eng . and to smaller 

wires that go back  to the dash. It is a dry cell batt. and that I felt it 

would be safe. what do you think ?

---

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject: Battery cable size

It depends on what type of insulation is used. Some of that stuff can 

give off a dense cloud of noxious smoke. It can not only be hard to 

breathe, it can be difficult to see through. Put the battery contactor 

as close to the battery as possible and make sure the cable from the 

battery to the contactor can't possibly short out to ground. That way 

you can stop the current flow with the master switch and stop the smoke. 

Make sure the rest of your wiring is protected by fuses or breakers that 

have a lower current rating than the wire in the circuit.



Tefzel isn't the easiest stuff to work with, but how often do you have 

to monkey with your battery cables?



Southern Reflections wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>

 

 Bryan, my batery is in the cabin ,on the fire wall, passenger side. on 

 the floor  the leads are about 6" long and they go back through the fire 

 wall into the engine compartment to terminals that go to eng . and to 

 smaller wires that go back  to the dash. It is a dry cell batt. and that 

 I felt it would be safe. what do you think ?


	


-- 

Bryan Martin

Zenith 601XL N61BM

Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive

Do Not Archive

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

purplemoon99(at)bellsouth
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:32 pm Post subject: Battery cable size

Bryan, Iam going to check what type of wire was used,the person that put it 

in the plane is along time builder  Rv 6, Z 701, etc. and well though in the 

air craft comm. around here. The wire he used is white and rather stiff I've 

never looked at the name or no. on the wire, but I will tomorrow .The master 

switch is a great idea, going to put it on the hot side between the pole, on 

pilot side by my knee on the center console , by the way do have any exp. 

about how good a Icom IC 200 raido is ?              Thanks Joe N101HD 601XL 

(about to fly again)

---

n4546v(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject: Battery cable size

Hello Larry:



I have been warned by people supposedly in the know against soldering 

aircraft connections.  Something about that if you solder a multi-strand 

wire, the solder binds together the mutiple strands and causes it to act 

like a large, single strand wire, when subject to vibration, you loose the 

benefit of muti-strand wire flexing and if it breaks it breaks all at once.



Any opinion regarding this?



Regards,



Randy, Las Vegas do not archive

 	  Quote: 	
		   Welding cable is flexible and durable to a fault and the wire is fine 

 enough that connectors can

 be soldered with excellent results.


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Larry McFarland  601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:48 am Post subject: Battery cable size

Randy,

The vibration is not going to affect any soldered cable connection of a 

size 6 or larger, but I agree that small wires should be crimped 

properly. When soldering

is recommended or felt necessary, extra steps should be taken to isolate 

the wire from vibration.  I have several cable connections that are 

silver soldered

and only a few connections where pins are involved in multi-wire plugs 

that needed to be soldered.  These are encased in shrink wrap and tied 

down to keep

vibration to a minimum.  All I know "electrical" is found in the 

complete manual sold by The AeroElectric Connection. Information Service 

and Guide Theory,

Operation, Design and Fabrication of Aircraft Electrical Systems. by Bob 

Knuckolls.  His book advocates using battery cables with soldered 

connections and

describes how best to do it.  I have had to repair one 22 gage wire, non 

Tefzel, (from an instrument) that broke from flexing as a 6-inch free 

loop where no solder was

involved at 50 hours total time.

Larry McFarland  601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

Randy L. Thwing wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 <n4546v(at)mindspring.com>

 Hello Larry:

 I have been warned by people supposedly in the know against soldering 

 aircraft connections.  Something about that if you solder a 

 multi-strand wire, the solder binds together the mutiple strands and 

 causes it to act like a large, single strand wire, when subject to 

 vibration, you loose the benefit of muti-strand wire flexing and if it 

 breaks it breaks all at once.

 Any opinion regarding this?

 Regards,

 Randy, Las Vegas do not archive

> Welding cable is flexible and durable to a fault and the wire is fine 

> enough that connectors can

> be soldered with excellent results.

>

> Larry McFarland  601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:40 am Post subject: Battery cable size

I respectfully disagree. Soldered connections lead to cable fatigue in ALL cases - you may just not get there!

 

  Dave Downey

 Harleysville (SE) PA

 100 HP Corvair



 



 ---

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:17 am Post subject: Battery cable size

Dave,

I understand your concern, but a properly supported cable is not going 

to get tired the first 100 years and fail all by itself unless you

put it under stress.  Properly done cables are not placed under stress. 

To have cable fatigue you have to hang a battery from it or

some flexing tensioned condition and in this case I'd agree with you.



Larry McFarland



David Downey wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I respectfully disagree. Soldered connections lead to cable fatigue in 

 ALL cases - you may just not get there!

  

 Dave Downey

 Harleysville (SE) PA

 100 HP Corvair

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:08 pm Post subject: Battery cable size

Solder wicks up into the wire  through capillary action.  that causes all the flex to occur at the point  where the solder ends...  that's where it is going to break not at the  connector.  Personally if a joint is going to be subjected to vibration,  regardless of the wire size, I'll pass on the solder.

  

 So far I have resoldered a  #24 wire three times in my GPS.   It always breaks at the point where  the solder ends.  This is a very small wire which connects the external  power tab to the positive terminal of the circuit board.   

  

 Before any one asks I haven't  done a cold solder joint in more than thirty years.

  

 Noel

    [quote][b]

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

t_fogelson(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:29 pm Post subject: Battery cable size

I second what Noel says, all military wiring is crimp

type lugs, not soldered.  The only thing I have ever

seen soldered on a military aircraft is small wires

into a cannon plug, but then there is a strain relief

to keep the wire from flexing at the solder joint. 

There is also lots of clamps and tiewraps around wire

bundles.



Terry

--- Noel Loveys <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Solder wicks up into the wire through capillary

 action.  that causes all the

 flex to occur at the point where the solder ends... 

 that's where it is

 going to break not at the connector.  Personally if

 a joint is going to be

 subjected to vibration, regardless of the wire size,

 I'll pass on the

 solder.

  

 So far I have resoldered a #24 wire three times in

 my GPS.   It always

 breaks at the point where the solder ends.  This is

 a very small wire which

 connects the external power tab to the positive

 terminal of the circuit

 board.  

  

 Before any one asks I haven't done a cold solder

 joint in more than thirty

 years.

  

 Noel

n85ae

Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:35 am Post subject: Re: Battery cable size

I've soldered a LOT of connectors in Grumman E-2C's, so they definetly

are out there. However they are on the way out.



There are several reason solder isn't used much now:



1). Most people solder poorly, and even a lot of people who think they don't solder poorly actually do.  AND even perfect looking solder joints, when examined under a microscope some times you can see a clear

separation line between the solder and the cup (i.e. the solder is simply

acting as a filler). I worked a job where everything we soldered was 

inspected under a scope, that's how I know this. Even in a professional

shop, with a good QA department, almost everything hand soldered 

would go through a couple iterations of rework before passing final

inspection.



2). Any trained ape can properly crimp connectors AND consistently 

if they use the right tools. 



I personally took a fly cutter and replaced the cutter with a swiveling 

post. I attached a 18 gauge tefzel wire with an Amp crimp connector to

the post. The fly cutter was mounted in my drill press. I attached the 

other end of the wire to the drill press frame with a spring so the wire

was under constant tension. I then turned on the drill press at let it

run. It was a couple hours before the crimped wire broke. It broke 1/2"

from the crimp in the insulated part of the wire. The crimp did not fail. 



Use whatever you want, but for me I'll always use crimp connectors.



Regards,

Jeff

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