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Flap storage
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john_graham

Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 45
Location: Algonquin, IL

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:00 am Post subject: Flap storage

Hello fellow fliers!  Quick questions as I continue to

learn about my Yak-52.  When done flying, is it better

to leave the FLAP handle in the full forward position

or in the neutral position?  Or does it matter one way

or the other?  Thanks!



Thanks,



John P. Graham

CubFlyer1940(at)Yahoo.com

Cell phone  (847) 641-1330

Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more!

_________________
John Graham
N15YK 1993 Yak-52
CubFlyer1940@Yahoo.com
(847) 641-1330

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:45 am Post subject: Flap storage

In a message dated 9/24/2007 1:02:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  cubflyer1940(at)yahoo.com writes:

  

  

 John,

  

 I would and teach to put the handle back in neutral.  Operationally  system wise it wouldn't make much difference, if you don't you are simply  pressurizing the up side of the flap actuator.  If you than select the  flaps down, you will have to go passed neutral, to the down side.  You  could mess up and you could accidentally stop in the neutral position  and not get any flaps at all.

  

 Usually it is after landing that the flap handle is moved to the up  position.  Try using this technic.  After landing AND clear of the  runway, put your hand on the flap handle.  Confirm that you do have the  flap handle, by looking at it.  Move the handle to the up  position and leave your hand on the handle until the flaps are up.  Than  move the handle to neutral.

  

 Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

  

  

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Yak-List message posted by: John Graham    <cubflyer1940(at)yahoo.com>



Hello fellow fliers!  Quick    questions as I continue to

learn about my Yak-52.  When done flying,    is it better

to leave the FLAP handle in the full forward position

or in    the neutral position?  Or does it matter one way

or the other?     Thanks!



Thanks,



John P. Graham

CubFlyer1940(at)Yahoo.com

Cell    phone  (847) 641-1330

Catch up on fall's hot new shows on    Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and  es  Day       -->                - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

bsp;    -->  ======================



	


 

  



See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.

  [quote][b]

pa3arw(at)euronet.nl
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:34 am Post subject: Flap storage

John. Ref Pappy’s comment:  

   

Especially the bold part “by looking at it” is important….I know…I found out the hard way…

 

   

Hans  

         

  

Van: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] Namens cjpilot710(at)aol.com

 Verzonden: maandag 24 september 2007 19:45

 Aan: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Onderwerp: Re: Flap storage  

  

       

In a message dated 9/24/2007 1:02:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cubflyer1940(at)yahoo.com writes:  

    

   

    

   

    

John,  

    

   

    

I would and teach to put the handle back in neutral.  Operationally system wise it wouldn't make much difference, if you don't you are simply pressurizing the up side of the flap actuator.  If you than select the flaps down, you will have to go passed neutral, to the down side.  You could mess up and you could accidentally stop in the neutral position and not get any flaps at all.  

    

   

    

Usually it is after landing that the flap handle is moved to the up position.  Try using this technic.  After landing AND clear of the runway, put your hand on the flap handle.  Confirm that you do have the flap handle, [b]by looking at it[/b].  Move the handle to the up position and leave your hand on the handle until the flaps are up.  Than move the handle to neutral.  

    

   

    

Jim "Pappy" Goolsby  

    

   

    

   

   	  Quote: 	
		    

--> Yak-List message posted by: John Graham <cubflyer1940(at)yahoo.com>

 

 Hello fellow fliers!  Quick questions as I continue to

 learn about my Yak-52.  When done flying, is it better

 to leave the FLAP handle in the full forward position

 or in the neutral position?  Or does it matter one way

 or the other?  Thanks!

 

 Thanks,

 

 John P. Graham

 CubFlyer1940(at)Yahoo.com

 Cell phone  (847) 641-1330

 

 

 Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and es Day   -->             - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

 bsp; --> ======================

 

 

   	
  

    

   

  



 

         

  

See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.  

   	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
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4

        [quote][b]

dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:39 am Post subject: Flap storage

John,

There is no functional benefit to moving the flap handle away from the UP position.  In fact, you are depressurizing the flap actuator which removes all UP pressure on the flaps.  Then when you decide to move the flap handle to either the UP or the DOWN position, you consume more air because you have to repressurize the flap actuator.  Since the flaps are UP after you put the flap handle in the NEUTRAL position, if you put the flap hand to the DOWN position, the flaps will slam to the down position because there is no pressure in the actuator to act as a cushion when the flaps are moving.  Hope this makes sense.  Bottom line....obtain a copy of the Russian translated flight manual and you will find there is no mention of putting the flap handle in neutral except to give control to the other cockpit.  That is the only reason for the neutral position.  If it were a single cockpit airplane, it would not need a neutral position.  Dennis



---- John Graham <cubflyer1940(at)yahoo.com> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hello fellow fliers!  Quick questions as I continue to

 learn about my Yak-52.  When done flying, is it better

 to leave the FLAP handle in the full forward position

 or in the neutral position?  Or does it matter one way

 or the other?  Thanks!

 

 Thanks,

 

 John P. Graham

 CubFlyer1940(at)Yahoo.com

 Cell phone  (847) 641-1330

 

 

 Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more!

brian-1927(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:19 am Post subject: Flap storage

On Sep 24, 2007, at 11:32 AM, Hans Oortman 1 wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   John. Ref Pappy’s comment:



 Especially the bold part “by looking at it” is important….I know…I  

 found out the hard way…


	


It is funny how so many people have made the same mistake of thinking  

they are raising the flaps and instead raise the gear. You would  

think that, since there are nowhere near each other, this failure  

mode would be infrequent but for some reason it is not. The best  

insurance is to ensure that you slide the gear-lock slide in place as  

soon as you place the gear lever in the down position regardless of  

the reason.



(I *KNOW* that religious use of the gear slide-lock *WILL* save your  

airplane's belly. Please do not ask me how I know this.)



--

Brian Lloyd                         3191 Western Drive

brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com    Cameron Park, CA 95682

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry



PGP key ID:          12095C52A32A1B6C

PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C

jorgen.nielsen(at)mweb.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:10 am Post subject: Flap storage

My buddy and I hangar together (2 x Yak52) - we have a standing arrangement

that if ever we see the gear slide lock not engaged, a case of beer is

purchased by the culprit...



--

Bill Tally

Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Posts: 20

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:57 am Post subject: Re: Flap storage

I have to agree with Dennis on this one.  The flaps come down very forcefully.  (And this is true despite the presence of orfices in each connection to the shuttle valves mounted on the flap actuator.)  Having some opposing pressure in the actuating cylinder helps mitigate that.  



Also, I would think that there might be some value in maintaining pressure to keep the flaps locked in the up position.  There are ball locks inside the actuator to do that, but it seems to me that they will do their job better when the chuck is under pressure, forcing the balls into the groove.  (Of course nobody is going to do any tail slides anyway, right? )

wlannon(at)cablerocket.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:16 pm Post subject: Flap storage

I too agree with Dennis regarding flap handle position. I see no advantage 

in moving to the center after flap retraction.

The flap actuator does not contain nor does it require a ball lock system.

Above comments apply to the CJ6, other models may differ though I doubt it.



Walt



---

Bill Tally

Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Posts: 20

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Flap storage

Not to make a big deal of it, but I beg to differ with Walt on the ball lock issue.  I have disassembled the flap actuator on my 52, and there is most assuredly a ball lock assembly in there.  See also pages 36 and 37 (section 5.6) in Book 3 of the Yak 52 Aircraft Performance Data Specifications, etc. book.

crichka(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:04 pm Post subject: Flap storage

I agree with you, Just service my 52 flap actuator and It have 6 locking balls 5mm dia. and it is a locking unit

Chanock

Born to fly, Forced to work



[quote] Subject: Re: Flap storage

 From: wtally(at)scottsboro.org

 Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:26:20 -0700

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bill Tally" <wtally(at)scottsboro.org>

 

 Not to make a big deal of it, but I beg to differ with Walt on the ball lock issue. I have disassembled the flap actuator on my 52, and there is most assuredly a ball lock assembly in there. See also pages 36 and 37 (section 5.6) in Book 3 of the Yak 52 Aircraft Performance Data Specifications, etc. book.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136471#136471

 > 

 

 

Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Café. Play now!   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

wlannon(at)cablerocket.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:37 pm Post subject: Flap storage

Then I humbly stand corrected. The CJ6 manual text and cut-away drawing with 

parts list show no ball lock.



Walt

---

Michael Bolton

Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 9

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:27 am Post subject: Flap storage

Glad to see that I am not alone in this Club



Michael

---

steve.fox(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:49 am Post subject: Flap storage

Bill Blackwell sells a gear knob in bright red that says GEAR on it. Fits both Yaks and CJs.  It will not relieve you of your duty to stop, think and look, but it is one extra reminder.

 Steve

On Sep 26, 2007, at 9:25 AM, Michael Bolton wrote:

[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Michael Bolton" <mjbjhf(at)truvista.net (mjbjhf(at)truvista.net)>

Glad to see that I am not alone in this Club

Michael





---

Bill Tally

Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Posts: 20

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:56 am Post subject: Re: Flap storage

Walt, a careful reading of your first post shows you were referring to CJ's.  It appears that Yaks have the locks and and CJ's don't.  So, you really don't need any correcting!



The discussion of ball locks brings up another topic:  The presence of the ball locks in the Yak flaps has led many to question why the Russian flight manual forbids tail slides.  If the flaps are in fact locked, what is the reason for that prohibition?  Is it because of potential flap damage or for some other reason?

JOE HOWSE

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 140
Location: DUNCAN BC CANADA

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:22 am Post subject: Flap storage

I agree with Walt, my CJ6 overhaul manual clearly shows the flap actuator 

with no ball locks, page 26-1 chapter 26

I assume the CJ6 and the 52 have different actuators.



Joe

_________________
J.C. HOWSE

JOE HOWSE

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 140
Location: DUNCAN BC CANADA

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:48 am Post subject: flap storage

Also the CJ6 has a bungee to retract  the  flap

  

 Joe

    [quote][b]

_________________
J.C. HOWSE

rkent(at)wlacrussianeng.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:24 am Post subject: flap storage

The CJ6 will have completely different actuators to the Yk-52. The Yk-52 has two flaps controlled by one actuator. The Yk-18T and the CJ6 have the one large ‘barn door’ flap across the wing centre section. The Yk-18T also has the bungees on the flap, I suspect, similar to the CJ6. The actuator for the Yk-52 flap is a double-ended actuator with the shaft protruding from both ends. The Yk-18T (not sure about the CJ6) has two small actuators for the one flap.   

   

Regards  

   

Rob Kent  

Stores Manager  

WLAC – Russian Engineering  

www.wlacrussianeng.co.uk           

   

Tel: +44 1628 829 165  

Fax: +44 1628 825 975  

Mob: +44 7866 438 293  

         

  

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joe Howse

 Sent: 26 September 2007 15:46

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: flap storage  

  

     

Also the CJ6 has a bungee to retract  the flap  

    

   

    

Joe  

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wlannon(at)cablerocket.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:00 am Post subject: flap storage

Ahh So!!! Thanks Rob.

  

 Seems the 52 flap actuator is a totally different  animal. "two flaps controlled by one actuator".

 I could not see a need for the ball lock in the CJ  actuator (there is none) and assumed (bad idea but I am regularly guilty) this  applied to other models.

  

 So here we go again - I will suggest that other  models with a single piece flap are the same as the CJ and will hazard a guess  that the reason for the ball lock in the 52 is to prevent a split flap  condition.

  

 Walt

 [quote]   ---

Bill Tally

Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Posts: 20

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Flap storage

The way the Yak 52 flap system works, a split flap condition is impossible unless a component actually breaks (unlikely considering the strength of construction).   Flaps on both sides are both connected to  a common piston rod which has to be either in the up or down position.  Ingenious and dirt simple.

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:41 am Post subject: Flap storage

Flat spin maybe.

Doc



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