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Tire question - cannot fly before information

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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:14 am Post subject: Tire question - cannot fly before information

All



I was flying today w my mono and one friend.

Suddenly we got some bad weather and clouds lowered

to the 600 feet from the ground. Wind was 13 knots

and 90 degrees from the right side. I was quite stressed

when landing and let is say I "forgot" to pull the stick

fully back. So I did a one wheel landing with that wind.

There was some quite sharp and fast S-turns while landing

but I managed to keep it in control and in one piece.

Now I really know why I have to have legs.

The Europa rudder must be quite effective!

I have to say I was not very proud of that landing and

so I was forced to do it again - just to show to my friend

it is possible to land straight and beautiful (and it was).



After 2nd landing we noticed the brake calliber has hit to 

the tire side. I have an original Europa Titan Turf Glide 

8.00-6 tire. In manual they say use 1,2 bar but I have 

used to use 1,8 bar. Today - because of the cold weather 

and my laziness - there was only 1,0 bar. 



The brake calliber has hitted all the summer to the tire 

and I have noticed earlier those "marks" only 

- no significant wear almost at all. That is why I have 

decided to update real Aircraft tire and to the size 7.00-6. 

Now - today and with all the earlier landings 

- the brake calliber has "eaten" tire side let 

is say 1,0 mm (=0,04"). 



Somebody may think it was a "hard" landing but it

was not: my G-meter w register showed only -0,4/+1,8G.



Question:



HOW THICK IS THE SIDE OF the Titan Turf Glide?



If it is less than 2 mm - I cannot fly before new tire.

If somebody has a spare Titan tire, please measure the

side thickness. Thank you. Would like to get some

answers asap and hope it is more than 3 mm thick!



Raimo

=====

OH-XRT #417, 38 hrs so far, no specified grins but very happy

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josok-e(at)ukolo.fi
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:14 pm Post subject: Tire question - cannot fly before information

Raimo,



Difficult to know how thick it is without slicing it open.

As long as you don't see any of the reinforcement material, i would not worry, not for some local flying. But of course, order a new one right away!

But why change the concept? It should be an 8x6 tire, mine is an aircraft tire and has no marks. The right size is available, in aircraft quality. The pressure is advised as 18 psi or 1.2 bar. 

My tire was slowly loosing air, which was caused by abrasion to a quality control (sic) sticker in the inside of the tire. 



Regards,



Jos Okhuijsen

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:44 pm Post subject: Tire question - cannot fly before information

Raimo

I wonder if the basic requirement to avoid the S's all over the runway 

is to never let the airplane land until the stick is on the back stop?

I flew Europa monos for 5 years until one day, in another Europa I had 

never landed before I S'd all over. It happened twice in that airplane.

Checking tailplane deflections after the first event showed not enough 

up elevator so no downforce.

Graham



Raimo Toivio wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   All

 

 I was flying today w my mono and one friend.

 Suddenly we got some bad weather and clouds lowered

 to the 600 feet from the ground. Wind was 13 knots

 and 90 degrees from the right side. I was quite stressed

 when landing and let is say I "forgot" to pull the stick

 fully back. So I did a one wheel landing with that wind.

 There was some quite sharp and fast S-turns while landing

 but I managed to keep it in control and in one piece.


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   Raimo

 =====

 OH-XRT #417, 38 hrs so far, no specified grins but very happy

 

 


	


-- 

Graham Singleton



Tel: +441629820187

Mob: +447739582005

dg.watts(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:20 am Post subject: Tire question - cannot fly before information

Raimo,



I have never actually cut one of the factory supplied tyres open, but after 

a couple of years of operating it I got a puncture (luckily on taxi out). To 

try and find the small point that had caused it I placed my hand inside the 

tyre with the other on the outside.



I have to say that the rubber material is very, very thin and although I 

re-used the tyre (after repair to the tube) for a few weeks, I straight away 

got in a replacement regualr aircraft tyre (which Europa now supply). This 

has several advantages. Thicker rubber, stiffer wall (less sideways roll) 

and more clearance with the undercarriage frame legs.



I know this is not the firm measurement that you required, but personally, 

if there was any piont scoring, as you would get with a brake calliper score 

mark, I would definitely not use the tyre. Whilst we used the original tyre, 

we did have some marks made my the undercarriage legs, but that was more 

like a polishing mark than a scored mark, and whilst I wasn't happy with it, 

I did put up with it, whilst monitoring it all the time.



Dave Watts

Europa Mono Classic 229 with 1250 hrs.



I was flying today w my mono and one friend.

Suddenly we got some bad weather and clouds lowered

to the 600 feet from the ground. Wind was 13 knots

and 90 degrees from the right side. I was quite stressed

when landing and let is say I "forgot" to pull the stick

fully back. So I did a one wheel landing with that wind.

There was some quite sharp and fast S-turns while landing

but I managed to keep it in control and in one piece.

Now I really know why I have to have legs.

The Europa rudder must be quite effective!

I have to say I was not very proud of that landing and

so I was forced to do it again - just to show to my friend

it is possible to land straight and beautiful (and it was).



After 2nd landing we noticed the brake calliber has hit to

the tire side. I have an original Europa Titan Turf Glide

8.00-6 tire. In manual they say use 1,2 bar but I have

used to use 1,8 bar. Today - because of the cold weather

and my laziness - there was only 1,0 bar.



The brake calliber has hitted all the summer to the tire

and I have noticed earlier those "marks" only

- no significant wear almost at all. That is why I have

decided to update real Aircraft tire and to the size 7.00-6.

Now - today and with all the earlier landings

- the brake calliber has "eaten" tire side let

is say 1,0 mm (=0,04").



Somebody may think it was a "hard" landing but it

was not: my G-meter w register showed only -0,4/+1,8G.



Question:



HOW THICK IS THE SIDE OF the Titan Turf Glide?



If it is less than 2 mm - I cannot fly before new tire.

If somebody has a spare Titan tire, please measure the

side thickness. Thank you. Would like to get some

answers asap and hope it is more than 3 mm thick!



Raimo

=====

OH-XRT #417, 38 hrs so far, no specified grins but very happy

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:20 am Post subject: Tire question - cannot fly before information

Jos



are you sure there is reinforcement

material in the sides also???



My tire is too fat and wanna have

slightly narrower one. Cannot understand

what is the reason you have no tire contact

to the brake calliber! Same size, same stuff !



Earlier I asked recommendations for tire

and most of us prefer AirTrac 7.00-6.



My idea was to change tire during winterstop,

but obviously I have to do it immediately if

I want to fly. Just hate that job!



I know succested pressure is 1,2 bar

but I still do like to use 1,8 bar as

do many other Europa mono pilots too.



We should have our DOTH soon

- we could compare our tire-brake calliber combination.



Wishes, Raimo

---

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:45 am Post subject: Tire question - cannot fly before information

Graham



My tailplane declections are perfect.



I got S´s because I was careless!

My fault - plane is perfect!



I have completed so far about 100 landings

and no difficulties at all. My most demanding

landing was so far in Endealave during fly-inn

three weeks ago. Wind was 24G38, headwind, 

grass runway, lenght 600 metres. Stefan Ingemarsson

from Sweden did it also succesfully.



Wishes, Raimo

---

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:03 am Post subject: Tire question - cannot fly before information

Thanks Dave for safety information!



Now I know it is "thin".



It will be quite an interesting moment, 

when I next time land with that tire!



I still would like to know to make my conclusions:



1) what is the exact thickness of the original

tire side? Somebody has an uninstalled tire /tyre

- please could he measure it?



2) are there some reinforcement material in the sides also

as Jos suppose? I am talking about Titan Turf Glide tire.



3) why I have some slightly contact with tire and brake calliber?

Is it only my problem? If I change to the size 7.00-6,

that contact is away - am I right?



4) what happens when landing with empty mono main wheel?

Or when it bangs during first touch?

Total catastrophe or what? 

If so I hope nobody know!



Have a nice weekend, Raimo

====================

OH-XRT #417, flying w broken main tire...

---

dg.watts(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:19 am Post subject: Tire question - cannot fly before information

Raimo,



I witnessed Jim Naylor have a blowout as he touched down at our grass strip 

at Laddingford.



It was not a total disaster, he just stopped VERY VERY quickly.



He thought he had the brake on, and just made sure he kept full back stick.



Dave Watts

Europa Mono Classic 229 with 1250 hrs.



---

karelvranken(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:33 pm Post subject: Tire question - cannot fly before information

Dear Raimo,

The tickness of the tire side is 7 mm. From the inside it looks like fabric 

impression, so I suppose it is reinforced. 3) yes. 4) So far I have no 

experience and I will not do it for you.

S landings occur when you drink Koskenkorva vodka before flight.

SS landings happened during WWII.

Friendly yours,

Karel Vranken

---

raimo.toivio(at)rwm-syste
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:07 pm Post subject: Tire question - cannot fly before information

Thanks Karel for measurement



7 mm is great - I have now 5-6 mm

left and the reinforcement material I hope.

Please confirm you measured

Titan Turf Glide Tire!



Earlier I asked some recommendations

for mono tire and a great majority of you

suggested me to install size 7.00-6

and AirTrac was a clear winner.



So my conclusion is it cannot be worse

than the original golf car tire (golf car´s

max taxi speed is about 10 knots, it has

four tires and the weight /tire is less than

150 kg /340 lbs - when touching Europa´s

speed is 5 times more and weight 2,5 times

more + G-forces).



I believe aircraft quality tire size 8.00-6 does not hit

normally caliber because of it´s overall quality and accurate

measurements. Tolerance is anyway minimal between

it and caliber. Non-aircraft tires may hit

bacause of the varies in quality and their limp

sides. Same reason for Kingley´s differencies

with diameters.



My wife suggests one reason for the contact:

my caliber is maybe just bigger than normal one !



Karel, S landings or even SS-landings are better

than U or L -landings. I saw one L-landing in

Aalborg Denmark 9/9/07. It was SAS`s Dash 8

full of passengers and right side gear collapsed.

I cannot understand why they did not land to

the grass in the clean configuration.

It was awful to see but happily no fatals.



Anyway I will go on flying with this tire to the end of

this flying season. I promise I stop landing

if reinforcement material is visible or even

inner tire.



And have a CM- DOTH with Jos (caliber measurement).



Thanks for comments, all of you.



Raimo,

OH-XRT (with big caliber)



---

karelvranken(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:38 pm Post subject: Tire question - cannot fly before information

Raimo,

The measurements were done on Titan Turf Glide tire that I didn't use. The 

tire on my mono is a Condor.

Karel Vranken.

---

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