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Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?

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psm(at)ATT.NET
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:34 am Post subject: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?

Hi William,



One thing you are obviously missing is labor.  You are probably 

planning on spending 5 or 10 years of your life building your 

plane.  You may not want to count that as monetary value, but even if 

it doesn't cost you cash it does cost you years you could be doing 

something else.



You may also be missing little things like wheels and tires which are 

around $2000.  If you plan to use paint on your plane that is 

probably another thousand or so.  And then there are seats.  Lets not 

forget all the tools you will need.  Do you have welding 

equipment?  How about paint gun and compressor?  Do you need to pay 

taxes to your state and/or local government?  Also, the original 

poster was in Canada so the money exchange rates might come into play.



I am not suggesting scratch building is a bad idea.  I chose standard 

kit approach myself, but either choice has merit.



The one thing I think nobody has mentioned in this incredibly long 

discussion is the simple truth that renting airplanes is A LOT LESS 

EXPENSIVE than owning them.  Once you are flying you probably want to 

have insurance and hangar or tie-down expenses.  You also face fuel, 

maintenance, and countless other expenses while flying your plane.



Years ago it took over 200 hours of flying per year to justify, from 

a financial perspective, owning your own plane instead of renting 

one.  This is way beyond the typical recreational pilot's flying per year.



Like other posters, I think it is WAY LESS EXPENSIVE to take the 

conventional route to flight training and rent your plane from an 

existing source rather than building your own airplane.  If you must 

have your own airplane it would be a lot less expensive to buy an old 

Champ, Cub, C-150, Cherokee 140, or similar 60 year old plane than to 

build your own new plane.  That would also give you a plane to fly 

now instead of a chance of having one to fly some ten years in the future.



I believe the only reasonable justification for building a plane is 

that you want to enjoy building a plane.  Nothing else will give 

enough motivation to get you to complete such a tremendous task.



Paul

XL fuselage

Camas, WA



At 10:16 AM 9/27/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I still don't see how you come up with $30K as rock bottom for the 

complete airplane. Thats why I was asking for how much you would 

guess for an airframe alone, without engine an instrumentation.



I'm scratch building and I have gone thru the numbers several times. 

Based on what I have spent so far, how much I already have and some 

budgeting projections, my airframe will realistically come about 7K. 

That is at current prices and includes realistic reserve for damaged 

parts and purchasing of some parts that I might not make. So, adding 

12K for a Corvair conversion including FWF and 5K for 

instrumentation we are talking about 24K.



Scott Laughlin posted some time ago, right when he was close to 

completing his project, how much he has spend in his project so far, 

and his numbers where way under my estimate.



Are you a scratch builder? I'm trying to see if I'm missing 

something very big money wise or if kit builders really tend 

overestimate the cost of scratch building. I believe the answer is 

somewhere in between.



William Dominguez

Zodiac 601XL Plans

Miami, Florida

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Mitch Hodges

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 45
Location: Powder Springs, GA

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:58 am Post subject: Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation

 	  psm(at)ATT.NET wrote: 	
		  I think it is WAY LESS EXPENSIVE to take the 

conventional route to flight training and rent your plane from an 

existing source rather than building your own airplane.

	
[/quote]



To be completely fair to someone new, you also have to consider some of the "hidden" costs of flying our beloved experimental aircraft (or flying in general).  These are things like added costs, or exclusions, on life and AD&D insurance for flying experimental aircraft (assuming you find a policy that will cover you while flying).  I believe even AOPA's group term life insurance only pays 50% when flying an experimental aircraft.



At the end of the day, its still worth it for me, but it is things to consider.

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_________________
Mitch Hodges
N601MH (Zenith 601HDS)
Builder Log at http://www.hodges.aero
Wings Under Perpetual Construction

bill_dom(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:48 am Post subject: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?

You got it Paul, Thanks.



I agree that renting will always be cheaper. I guess that I have taken this thread out of its original topic into something different.



You are right, I'm not considering the labor I'm putting in my project because I enjoy doing it and I'm not paying for it with money. For me, labor is anything that people do for money but don't necessarily enjoy it. I'm enjoying this project more now after a year of work than when I started. I'm afraid that if the enjoyment keeps growing it might become an addiction. I'm keeping an eye on myself, don't want to end up in a 12 step recovery program from airplane builders anonymous.



You are right that those details you have mentioned (seats, paints) can add up and they are easy to underestimate. 



However, Scott Laughlin plane came under 20K if I remember correctly.



William Dominguez

Zodiac 601XL Plans

Miami, Florida



Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>  wrote:[quote] --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz 



Hi William,



One thing you are obviously missing is labor.  You are probably 

planning on spending 5 or 10 years of your life building your 

plane.  You may not want to count that as monetary value, but even if 

it doesn't cost you cash it does cost you years you could be doing 

something else.



You may also be missing little things like wheels and tires which are 

around $2000.  If you plan to use paint on your plane that is 

probably another thousand or so.  And then there are seats.  Lets not 

forget all the tools you will need.  Do you have welding 

equipment?  How about paint gun and compressor?  Do you need to pay 

taxes to your state and/or local government?  Also, the original 

poster was in Canada so the money exchange rates might  come into play.



I am not suggesting scratch building is a bad idea.  I chose standard 

kit approach myself, but either choice has merit.



The one thing I think nobody has mentioned in this incredibly long 

discussion is the simple truth that renting airplanes is A LOT LESS 

EXPENSIVE than owning them.  Once you are flying you probably want to 

have insurance and hangar or tie-down expenses.  You also face fuel, 

maintenance, and countless other expenses while flying your plane.



Years ago it took over 200 hours of flying per year to justify, from 

a financial perspective, owning your own plane instead of renting 

one.  This is way beyond the typical recreational pilot's flying per year.



Like other posters, I think it is WAY LESS EXPENSIVE to take the 

conventional route to flight training and rent your plane from an 

existing source rather than building your own airplane.  If you must 

have your own airplane it would  be a lot less expensive to buy an old 

Champ, Cub, C-150, Cherokee 140, or similar 60 year old plane than to 

build your own new plane.  That would also give you a plane to fly 

now instead of a chance of having one to fly some ten years in the future.



I believe the only reasonable justification for building a plane is 

that you want to enjoy building a plane.  Nothing else will give 

enough motivation to get you to complete such a tremendous task.



Paul

XL fuselage

Camas, WA



At 10:16 AM 9/27/2007, you wrote:

[quote]I still don't see how you come up with $30K as rock bottom for the 

complete airplane. Thats why I was asking for how much you would 

guess for an airframe alone, without engine an instrumentation.



I'm scratch building and I have gone thru the numbers several times. 

Based on what I have spent so far, how much I already have and some 

budgeting projections, my airframe [quote][b]

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entecrj(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:09 pm Post subject: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?

--

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