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Kolb Twinstar Should I get it?

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grantr

Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 217

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:41 pm Post subject: Kolb Twinstar Should I get it?

A guy has a 1987 model  kolb twinstar for sale it is a 2 seat side by side with a 503 dcdi with 101 hours with a new culver prop ,  NEW BRS 5, windshield, fuel tank, lines,& pump also has had all control cables and A/N hardware replaced read to fly. He has flown about 12 hours in the past month. It has no brakes and is pullstart has N# but needs inspected to get LSA finished .



He bought the plane from the original owner. Kit was bought in 1987 and finished in 1989. Unknown hours on airframe but second engine is at 101 hours. No corrosion ever found, fuselage was blasted and epoxy painted in May 2007. No damage history known. Original fabric stits process, few patches due to minor holes, mostly from original owner folding wings by himself. 



He is asking $7500



Its about a 650 miles trip one way so if i go I intend to buy not look!



What do you guys think? 

Is the twin star a good built/ flying airplane? I am a tad concerned over the age of the plane.



How about the fabric its 20 years old. Would you recommend replacing the fabric?



How much would it cost to recover the wing and tail?



Does the new kolb support parts for this airplane?



Does anyone have a spec sheet for this plane?



How about the ELSA? Since he has the N number  will I have plenty of time to finish the registration?

Thanks,

Grant

ElleryWeld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:33 am Post subject: Kolb Twinstar Should I get it?

I would let the guy finish the airworhy inspection process  so you dont have to wait for the registration to come back in your name and burn valuable time  or I would not buy it

  

  Have him take you for a ride in it  im sure if he is flying it he wouldnt not be stupid enough to be flying something that is not safe enough to fly in the first place but to make your self comfortable 'YOU" inspect it first

  

 650 Miles thats an afternoon trip I just went 1700 miles one way to get the plane I wanted last week  from Maine to Minesota and back

  

 I cant test the fabric from here  so you will have to be the judge of that 

  

 I have had great support from TNK eventhough I have never purchased a kit  direct from them  

  

 Good luck what ever you do

  

  Ellery Building Mk3X in Maine 

 do not archive

  



See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

  [quote][b]

cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:48 am Post subject: Re: Kolb Twinstar Should I get it?

It being built in the late 80's my guess is it is a Mark II Twinstar rather than a Mark III (the seating area is much smaller in the Mark II, don't know the inches).  The New Kolb co. doesn't make the Mark II anymore.  If you call Travis (606 862 9692) at Kolb he might fax you a spec sheet, but that's all the info he has on a Mark II.  I bought my Mark II on Sept. 8th and brought it home...sent the registration paperwork in on Sept. 13th and saw my registration completed online on Sept. 24th...have yet to see any official paperwork from FAA though.  I've contacted a DAR to start the inspection process.  I'm pretty sure I'll get my inspection done before the Jan. 31st deadline.  If you hurry, I think you'd have time.

I'm hoping I can still get parts for my Mark II...I haven't even asked anyone that question yet!  I know the boom tail had been replaced on mine and it has the New Kolb name on it so I think you could get parts from them...at least some parts.

If you find out for sure it is a Mark II, do a search on Ropermike author in this forum...he put a lot of helpful information about the Mark II in the forum.

My Mark II cost me $8000 and I don't have a BRS, but I do have an electric start.  My Rotax 503 engine is only a DCSI.  If he isn't willing to do the airworthy inspection (which is probably why he's selling it), then I'd try to talk him down.  If he doesn't sell it, it'll be a fancy yard ornament as Mike Huffman (DAR) says in his articles.  However, if he does take it through the inspection you can expect that price to go UP.  Take a look at Mike Huffman's articles on his website and you can see what all is involved in getting inspected.  He has written articles for EAA magazine.  Go to www.sportaviationspecialties.com and click on the "Articles" link.

As I was looking for a plane to buy one guy told me "Don't buy a pig in a poke."  My plane was over 700 miles away but I had the chance to "stop by" on a trip to see my folks and give it a good look before making plans to buy it.  I figured if it wasn't there the next weekend when I could actually pick it up, then it wasn't meant to be. 

My fabric has patches but I don't think it's 20 years old.  I have no history of when mine was built or when things were replaced.  Without any logs it's just the seller's word anyways.  When buying an older aircraft I would go with the assumption you MAY have to put 1/4 (or even up to 1/2 if it ends up the engine/fabric/major things had to be replaced) the cost of the aircraft into the plane for upgrades/repairs/etc.

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

Jim ODay

Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 61
Location: Fargo North Dakota

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:58 am Post subject: Re: Kolb Twinstar Should I get it?

Grant, 



Look into the Type of Registration for the N number on that plane.  



You can work around that in the gray area, I read something here about that.  The term "previously registered" came to mind.  I need to run now or I would research that more.



I see a lot of nice planes out there, and I always find I get what I pay for.



Good luck.



Jim



do not archive

_________________
Jim O'Day
Fargo, ND
Former Firestar II Builder/Pilot

grantr

Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 217

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:47 am Post subject: Re: Kolb Twinstar Should I get it?

Cristal,



Where are you from in GA? BTW I talked with Travis at Kolb and he said he supports all Kolb Models He can provide the basic stuff  like land gear struts and cable etc. He also said they will make parts if I needed any for the twinstar. he said Homer Kolb would support any of the planes he had built and so will the new Kolb. They dont have fuselages for them but the wings spars and ribs can be provided.



Here are the pics of the plane. What do you guys think?



















Now here is another Twinstar built in 1985  for the same price with 3 year old wing fabric but has a rotax 532.

cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:44 am Post subject: Re: Kolb Twinstar Should I get it?

That's good news.  Thanks for the information.

I am in Waycross, Georgia.  You probably saw my You Tube video (if you are the same "grant" that sent me a message there) of my Kolb:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S6TfLBvqus

My pictures were actually the ones the seller posted on barnstormers.  Once I get her fixed up (although she doesn't need much work), I'll be making some new pictures.

I saw one similar to the first picture you posted on barnstormers...they wanted $5000, but they were up in South Dakota.

The second plane you posted looks like it has been customized a bit.

Where are you located?  Open cockpit is comfortable flying in the south.  Mine is enclosed but has lots of "air holes".

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

grantr

Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 217

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:03 am Post subject: Re: Kolb Twinstar Should I get it?

I am in Plains, GA. I work in Americus.



Ive been through Waycross a few times going to Savannah. I will be heading to St Simmons soon for a work conference.



yes I am the same guy. I watch that add for a while. I almost called the guy but I was a bit weary of it be the older model.

jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:18 pm Post subject: Kolb Twinstar Should I get it?

Grant, I will pass along the advice given me after I broke every bit of it.

First, Do not go to the airplane, make the seller bring it to you.

Second, Do not do the pre buy inspection yourself. Hire a professional, make the seller pay half. He's the one making claims about the aircraft, he should at least pay half to verify that what he says is so. 

Third, Use the lack of an airworthiness certificate as an anvil to beat down the price. This seller has placed himself in a bad spot, use it to your advantage. Remember the FAA will guarantee your airworthiness inspection provided you have the packet submitted by Nov. 15th. 

Third, and this is my own advice. Forget about his registration, it's worth nothing. You can go to the FAA web site right now, pick out an available "N" number that appeals to you, if you want a custom one, otherwise check the box marked let the FAA pick the next available number. Pay for it with a Visa, or plastic of your choice and print out the receipt. This can be used to file form 8050-1 (the triplicate one that can't be done on line) Fill out form 8050-88A, get it notarized, and send all the above to the address on the triplicate form. While you're waiting for that to come back from OK City get all the other forms required and make a date with a DAR for the inspection. If the DAR wants registration info you have everything you need on the pink copy. 

By now you've read some of the stories of bizarre DAR ideas. Ask around and see who's following the rules and make your appointment with him.

Worth what you paid for it.



Rick



 On 9/28/07, ElleryWeld(at)aol.com (ElleryWeld(at)aol.com) <ElleryWeld(at)aol.com (ElleryWeld(at)aol.com)> wrote:[quote]     I would let the guy finish the airworhy inspection process  so you dont have to wait for the registration to come back in your name and burn valuable time  or I would not buy it

  

  Have him take you for a ride in it  im sure if he is flying it he wouldnt not be stupid enough to be flying something that is not safe enough to fly in the first place but to make your self comfortable 'YOU" inspect it first 

  

 650 Miles thats an afternoon trip I just went 1700 miles one way to get the plane I wanted last week  from Maine to Minesota and back

  

 I cant test the fabric from here  so you will have to be the judge of that 

  

 I have had great support from TNK eventhough I have never purchased a kit  direct from them  

  

 Good luck what ever you do

  

  Ellery Building Mk3X in Maine 

 do not archive

  



 See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

  [quote][b]  http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List http://forums.matronics.com 

when you live at the airport.  [quote][b]

jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:20 pm Post subject: Kolb Twinstar Should I get it?

the second third should be Last,...... Being rushed to go to an airshow, gotta go watch others fly.



Rick



On 9/28/07, Richard Girard < jindoguy(at)gmail.com (jindoguy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:[quote]Grant, I will pass along the advice given me after I broke every bit of it. 

First, Do not go to the airplane, make the seller bring it to you.

Second, Do not do the pre buy inspection yourself. Hire a professional, make the seller pay half. He's the one making claims about the aircraft, he should at least pay half to verify that what he says is so. 

Third, Use the lack of an airworthiness certificate as an anvil to beat down the price. This seller has placed himself in a bad spot, use it to your advantage. Remember the FAA will guarantee your airworthiness inspection provided you have the packet submitted by Nov. 15th. 

Third, and this is my own advice. Forget about his registration, it's worth nothing. You can go to the FAA web site right now, pick out an available "N" number that appeals to you, if you want a custom one, otherwise check the box marked let the FAA pick the next available number. Pay for it with a Visa, or plastic of your choice and print out the receipt. This can be used to file form 8050-1 (the triplicate one that can't be done on line) Fill out form 8050-88A, get it notarized, and send all the above to the address on the triplicate form. While you're waiting for that to come back from OK City get all the other forms required and make a date with a DAR for the inspection. If the DAR wants registration info you have everything you need on the pink copy. 

By now you've read some of the stories of bizarre DAR ideas. Ask around and see who's following the rules and make your appointment with him.

Worth what you paid for it.



Rick 



 On 9/28/07, ElleryWeld(at)aol.com (ElleryWeld(at)aol.com) < ElleryWeld(at)aol.com (ElleryWeld(at)aol.com)> wrote:[quote]     I would let the guy finish the airworhy inspection process  so you dont have to wait for the registration to come back in your name and burn valuable time  or I would not buy it

  

  Have him take you for a ride in it  im sure if he is flying it he wouldnt not be stupid enough to be flying something that is not safe enough to fly in the first place but to make your self comfortable 'YOU" inspect it first 

  

 650 Miles thats an afternoon trip I just went 1700 miles one way to get the plane I wanted last week  from Maine to Minesota and back

  

 I cant test the fabric from here  so you will have to be the judge of that 

  

 I have had great support from TNK eventhough I have never purchased a kit  direct from them  

  

 Good luck what ever you do

  

  Ellery Building Mk3X in Maine 

 do not archive

  



  See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]   http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List  http://forums.matronics.com 

takes on a whole new meaning 

when you live at the airport. 	


-- 

Rick Girard

"Ya'll drop on in"

takes on a whole new meaning

when you live at the airport.  [quote][b]

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:35 pm Post subject: Kolb Twinstar Should I get it?

Man!!!  This Rick G is smart!!!   All good info.                         Mike Welch

________________________________

Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 17:20:03 -0500

From: jindoguy(at)gmail.com

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Kolb Twinstar Should I get it?

the second third should be Last,...... Being rushed to go to an airshow, gotta go watch others fly.

Rick

On 9/28/07, Richard Girard < jindoguy(at)gmail.com> wrote:

Grant, I will pass along the advice given me after I broke every bit of it.

First, Do not go to the airplane, make the seller bring it to you.

Second, Do not do the pre buy inspection yourself. Hire a professional, make the seller pay half. He's the one making claims about the aircraft, he should at least pay half to verify that what he says is so.

Third, Use the lack of an airworthiness certificate as an anvil to beat down the price. This seller has placed himself in a bad spot, use it to your advantage. Remember the FAA will guarantee your airworthiness inspection provided you have the packet submitted by Nov. 15th.

Third, and this is my own advice. Forget about his registration, it's worth nothing. You can go to the FAA web site right now, pick out an available "N" number that appeals to you, if you want a custom one, otherwise check the box marked let the FAA pick the next available number. Pay for it with a Visa, or plastic of your choice and print out the receipt. This can be used to file form 8050-1 (the triplicate one that can't be done on line) Fill out form 8050-88A, get it notarized, and send all the above to the address on the triplicate form. While you're waiting for that to come back from OK City get all the other forms required and make a date with a DAR for the inspection. If the DAR wants registration info you have everything you need on the pink copy.

By now you've read some of the stories of bizarre DAR ideas. Ask around and see who's following the rules and make your appointment with him.

Worth what you paid for it.

Rick

On 9/28/07, ElleryWeld(at)aol.com < ElleryWeld(at)aol.com> wrote:

I would let the guy finish the airworhy inspection process  so you dont have to wait for the registration to come back in your name and burn valuable time  or I would not buy it

 Have him take you for a ride in it  im sure if he is flying it he wouldnt not be stupid enough to be flying something that is not safe enough to fly in the first place but to make your self comfortable 'YOU" inspect it first

650 Miles thats an afternoon trip I just went 1700 miles one way to get the plane I wanted last week  from Maine to Minesota and back

I cant test the fabric from here  so you will have to be the judge of that

I have had great support from TNK eventhough I have never purchased a kit  direct from them

Good luck what ever you do

 Ellery Building Mk3X in Maine

do not archive

________________________________

See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

http://forums.matronics.com

takes on a whole new meaning

when you live at the airport.

--

Rick Girard

"Ya'll drop on in"

takes on a whole new meaning

when you live at the airport.

_________________________________________________________________

Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger 

http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wlmailtagline

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:03 am Post subject: Kolb Twinstar Should I get it?

Those both look like fun airplanes, the first being bare minimum and  

very light.

-wheelbarrow wheels however.



The second is more airplane and looks like the builder did a good job.



BB  do not archive

Malcolmbru(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:06 am Post subject: Kolb Twinstar Should I get it?

I really liked my mk2 is yours an original twin star or a mk2?  there  is a big difference   malcolm michigan



Make AOL Your Homepage.

  [quote][b]

cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: Kolb Twinstar Should I get it?

Grant,

Take a look at this article.  

www.sportaviationspecialties.com/ELSACertDeadline.pdf

Looks like the FAA recommends having your inspection completed by Nov. 30th.  Then you send that paperwork in and hope everything goes smoothly enough to get it certificated by the Jan. 31st deadline.  They also recommend contacting the DAR by October 1st to schedule an inspection.  It may be cutting it awfully close if you buy one now that isn't already certificated as ELSA.

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

Craig.Nelson(at)heraeus.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:17 am Post subject: Kolb Twinstar Should I get it?

Grant r u a dental tec?



 



Craig Nelson 



Technical Representative



 



Heraeus



99 Business Park Drive



Armonk, NY 10504



Phone: (800) 431-1785 x 739



Direct:  623-764-0680



 



Craig.Nelson(at)heraeus.com

--

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