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4 stroke engine

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akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:32 am Post subject: 4 stroke engine

I have been looking around for an alternative engine to get a bit more power for my Avid.  65 HP is fine for wheels and pounding pavement but that is just not what I am into.



I have been looking at the Arctic Cat 660 turbo for awhile now and think this may warrant really looking into what it will take to put the "C" gear box on it.



Raven RE-drive has been using the 3 Cylinder Suzuki engine for awhile now with good success, but that was the car motor.  This is the cut down version for the snowmachines.  I am working on getting an AUW for the various components but It will for sure be better than the subie by a long shot.



Stock it is a 72% increase in HP (110 HP (at) 6700) and at cruise a 82% increase in torque... this means more pitch go faster at cruise..



If you want to monkey with boost and fuel curve etc the HP is nothing short of spectacular..just once I would like to take off on floats with 145 to 160 HP..Gotta be like flying a turbine otter empty with very little fuel.

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_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

Bob

Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 89
Location: Damascus, Maryland, USA

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:53 am Post subject: Re: 4 stroke engine

You mentioned the 3-cylinder Raven, but have you checked into their 4-cylinder?  The 1300 Suzi/Geo engine puts out 90-115 hp for a lot less money than a Rotax 912/912S. http://www.raven-rotor.com/html/redrive.html



I guess it's the never-changing trade-off of power vs reliability, isn't it? The snowmobile racers can get a LOT of hp out of those their two-strokes, but they're replacing pistons on a weekly basis.  The 582 is pretty conservative by comparison. There's an old rule of thumbs regarding not wanting to dip into the last third of anything.  Make sure you have a third of everything as an absolute minimum reserve.  A third of the hp beyond what you really need, a third of the torque (load), a third additional fuel and oil flow capability, etc.



Bob

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akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:10 am Post subject: Re: 4 stroke engine

I would say that it would be quite safe at 112 HP for take off.... That would be very conservative on what you really can do... and the snowmachine racers... The guys at the drags that are getting crazy HP outa the engine that is true.. some change pistons after almost every run, but for mild trail porting and tuning, it is nothing to go for years many thousands of miles and never do anything other than change plugs and clean power valves.



With the new technology, fuel injection, ECU's, pipe sensors etc, alot of the old issues are now gone.  you done have to worry about jetting for temps or altitude etc.  I believe this is the largest contributing factor to all the bad wrap the 2 strokes have gotten.  I know a guy locally that has had 5 or 6 engine outs, resulting in the loss of 2 aircraft.  All because he know nothing about a 2 stroke and just wont listen when it comes to jetting and operations... the last one he barely hobbled away from and is still in a brace for his broken back.

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usher

Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Boswell BC

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:59 pm Post subject: 4 stroke engine

A friend of mine has the 4 cylinder geo engine in  his Rans courier on floats. It is the smoothest running aircraft engine I have  ever heard, and he has not touched it in one hundred hours of use. Weighs just a  little more than a 912 and he has about $6000 in it. Raven redrive bolts right  onto it. Four cylinder, 16 valve, 100hp computer controlled for $6000, Not bad,  and parts/service is readily availible and cheap.

 Don

   [quote][b]

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m4785(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:04 pm Post subject: 4 stroke engine

Thanks don,we needed more people like you to help our effort in after market engines,I fly my fox4 with a VW 2180 82hp and love it,parts are cheap,motor is around $6000.00 new and has a TBO of 1000 hrs. 

 Rotax is way over priced in my opinion for what you get....there motto is  market the Rich/famous/just those lost souls that can put it on there credit card....lol

  	  Quote: 	
		  -------------- Original message from "Don & Dianne Usher" <denver7(at)xplornet.com>: -------------- 



    A friend of mine has the 4 cylinder geo engine in his Rans courier on floats. It is the smoothest running aircraft engine I have ever heard, and he has not touched it in one hundred hours of use. Weighs just a little more than a 912 and he has about $6000 in it. Raven redrive bolts right onto it. Four cylinder, 16 valve, 100hp computer controlled for $6000, Not bad, and parts/service is readily availible and cheap.

 Don

 	  Quote: 	
		  

	
	
      [quote][b]

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crazyivan

Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 62
Location: Pensacola

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:07 am Post subject: Re: 4 stroke engine

One of my favorite subjects:  auto conversion vs. the "airplane" engine.  



When it boils down to it the Jabiru/Rotax have a few things going for them:  

-They are light!

-More popular kitplanes have a FWF package that fits and has been tested.  This'll save time and experimentation.

-They have worked the kinks out.

-There is a running list of service notices for the kinks yet to be found.



The auto engines:

-They cost a lot less.

-You design the FWF yourself so you are intimately familiar with every aspect.  

-There are a lot of them to choose from with a large choice of hp.



About cost, though.  There is a guy on the internet that built a Zodiac.  Initially he put in a VW but it wasn't powerful enough and overheated.  He then switched to a Corvair, but that engine had the crankshaft break.  This is a relatively frequent occurrence if the crank isn't reconditioned the precisely correct way.  I think he ended up buying a Jabiru.  In the end the auto engine didn't pay off.



I came to the conclusion that picking your engine is a factor of cost, capability, and risk tolerance.  If I lived in the Midwest with a kozillion acres of emergency landing strips, I'd hang a Corvair on the front of a new Kitfox Super Sport.  But, right now I live/fly in Maine and plan on eventually doing some west coast back country flying.  I have a Rotax 912 on my Speedster and I'll probably end up with a Jabiru on my next plane.  The extra $10K will turn into peace of mind while flying 50 miles from civilization over heavily forested real estate with my son as copilot.

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Piper PA-22/20

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