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Elevator trim

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pequeajim

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:14 am Post subject: Elevator trim

Has anyone installed a manual elevator trim wheel, (like the one used in the RANS) in their Lightning?

  

 I'm not a big fan of electric trim motors as I never seem to get the right "feel" when setting the trim.  One thing I always liked about the Cessna is the manual trim wheel and the fact that you can get a very fine resolution with it as opposed to using a trim motor. 

  

 I was thinking of buying the RANS trim setup and installing it later.

  

 Same thing with the canopy latch.  We're installing the stock system, but then I will modify it later afer the aircraft is flying.

  

 Jim!

  [quote][b]

cdewey6969(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:51 am Post subject: Elevator trim

Let me know what you come up with for a super secure

canopy latch. It would be nice to know you could fly

the Lightning to Mexico and not worry aout getting

your electronics ripped off.    charles

--- Jim Langley <pequeajim(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Has anyone installed a manual elevator trim wheel,

 (like the one used in the

 RANS) in their Lightning?

 

 I'm not a big fan of electric trim motors as I never

 seem to get the right

 "feel" when setting the trim.  One thing I always

 liked about the Cessna is

 the manual trim wheel and the fact that you can get

 a very fine resolution

 with it as opposed to using a trim motor.

 

 I was thinking of buying the RANS trim setup and

 installing it later.

 

 Same thing with the canopy latch.  We're installing

 the stock system, but

 then I will modify it later afer the aircraft is

 flying.

 

 Jim!

 


	


       

Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. 

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pequeajim

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:07 am Post subject: Elevator trim

I already have a concept in mind.  I would love to use the kit that is used for the Legacy if it would fit. 



 On 10/3/07, Charles Dewey <cdewey6969(at)yahoo.com (cdewey6969(at)yahoo.com)> wrote: [quote]--> Lightning-List message posted by: Charles Dewey <cdewey6969(at)yahoo.com  (cdewey6969(at)yahoo.com)>



Let me know what you come up with for a super secure

canopy latch. It would be nice to know you could fly

the Lightning to Mexico and not worry aout getting

your electronics ripped off.    charles 

--- Jim Langley <pequeajim(at)gmail.com (pequeajim(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Has anyone installed a manual elevator trim wheel,

 (like the one used in the

 RANS) in their Lightning? 



 I'm not a big fan of electric trim motors as I never

 seem to get the right

 "feel" when setting the trim.  One thing I always

 liked about the Cessna is

 the manual trim wheel and the fact that you can get 

 a very fine resolution

 with it as opposed to using a trim motor.



 I was thinking of buying the RANS trim setup and

 installing it later.



 Same thing with the canopy latch.  We're installing 

 the stock system, but

 then I will modify it later afer the aircraft is

 flying.



 Jim!




	




Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

  [quote][b]

dashvii(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:53 am Post subject: Elevator trim

I would like to see this Legacy mod canopy latch on a Lightning: http://www.aerochia.com/kits_aft-canopy.html  This would allow the occupant to "get out" of the Lightning with a parachute a lot easier than with a forward hinged canopy.  It also has an external emergency release for safety.  I'm not certain but I think this can all be locked with a key to keep people out and looks pretty sturdy.  I doubt this would fit by itself, but with some modification or if somebody could be found to fabricate the parts specifically for the Lightning it'd be great!  See what you all think, Brian W.



_________________________________________________________________

Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café. Stop by today.

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cdewey6969(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:38 am Post subject: Elevator trim

brian- i like that canopy. it seems safer in a mid

-air emergency if you have to jump out   charles

--- Brian Whittingham <dashvii(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Whittingham <dashvii(at)hotmail.com>

 

 

 I would like to see this Legacy mod canopy latch on

 a Lightning:

 http://www.aerochia.com/kits_aft-canopy.html  This

 would allow the occupant to "get out" of the

 Lightning with a parachute a lot easier than with a

 forward hinged canopy.  It also has an external

 emergency release for safety.  I'm not certain but I

 think this can all be locked with a key to keep

 people out and looks pretty sturdy.  I doubt this

 would fit by itself, but with some modification or

 if somebody could be found to fabricate the parts

 specifically for the Lightning it'd be great!  See

 what you all think, Brian W.

 



_________________________________________________________________
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the

 Messenger Café. Stop by today.



http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   



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pequeajim

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:40 am Post subject: Elevator trim

Interesting.  The concept of the standard Legacy latch, but in reverse.  



 On 10/3/07, Brian Whittingham <dashvii(at)hotmail.com (dashvii(at)hotmail.com)> wrote: [quote]--> Lightning-List message posted by: Brian Whittingham <dashvii(at)hotmail.com  (dashvii(at)hotmail.com)>

I would like to see this Legacy mod canopy latch on a Lightning: http://www.aerochia.com/kits_aft-canopy.html  This would allow the occupant to "get out" of the Lightning with a parachute a lot easier than with a forward hinged canopy.  It also has an external emergency release for safety.  I'm not certain but I think this can all be locked with a key to keep people out and looks pretty sturdy.  I doubt this would fit by itself, but with some modification or if somebody could be found to fabricate the parts specifically for the Lightning it'd be great!  See what you all think, Brian W. 



_________________________________________________________________

Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café. Stop by today.

 http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Oc        - The Lightning-List Email ronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">  great content now also available via the Web Forums! =====================



[b]

rickss

Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 23
Location: Haymarket, VA

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: Elevator trim

Interesting that you mentioned the manual trim wheel. When I went up to Green Landings for a demo flight with Ryan, we both agreed that we would like a manual trim wheel, too....well I should not speak for Ryan, but I would like it.



-Rick

_________________
Cherokee driver, but feeling the need for speed!

dashvii(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:15 pm Post subject: Elevator trim

My thoughts are that I love the convienience of having an electric trim on the stick.  I never have to take my hands off the throttle and stick.  If I had it my way I'd wire as much stuff as was ever used in takeoff and landing into the stick and a couple of things for convienience such as a comm flip switch.  Now having said that, the benefits of a trim wheel are obvious.  You get a feel for the air loads your trimming off and can fine tune that.  The Lightning is light enough on the controls that you could fly it without trim, although after a while it would start to wear you out.  So you probably don't have much trim when you're working on the final approach to landing.  Manual trim wheel also is a simplified system that allows for a redundancy.  The same thing could be said for manual flaps.  I'm not sure what Arion has in store for the future of the Lightning anymore since I am no longer living up there, but it is an Experimental, build it the way you want it.  The more "features" that are offered in the kit, most likely the higher the cost of the kit will become.  Right now the Lightning is offered at a good and reasonable price, but with cost increase comes buyer decrease at some point.  The Lightning was built to be flown, built, and own by as wide of audience as possible.  Just my .02 Brian W.Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook – together at last. Get it now!  [quote][b]

N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: Elevator trim

Just to make sure everyone understands the  Lightning's elevator trim system, here are a few words.  First off it  should probably be correctly called a pitch trim system since the Lightning does  not have an elevator trim tab.  What it does have is a bungee cord loop set  up that helps the pilot pull on the elevator trim push pull rod.  The  electric trim motor (same type motor as the flap motor) pulls on the bungee loop  that in turn helps relieve pitch pressures.  Very simple system that is  infinitely adjustable with the up and down buttons on the top of the stick  grip.  To change to a pitch trim wheel would greatly complicate the system  since where the bungee is located could not be reached by the pilot in flight,  so you would have to completely redesign the entire set up.  Added  complexity will add weight, and in my mind you are fixing a problem that does  not exist.  My recommendation would be to fly it like it is and see if you  like it.  Most store bought aircraft trim systems use rather long cables  and pullies that at best have quite a bit of slop.  This system does  not.  Change it if you want, but be prepared to come up with a much more  complex set up.

     Now having said the above, I have found one down  side to the bungee system set up.  Over a period of time (and higher  temperatures) the bungee will loose some of it's strength and need to be  adjusted or replaced.  Plan on replacing the bungee about ever two to three  years.  The bungee material is readily available in the "aircraft parts"  section of any hardware store, Lowes, Home Depot, etc.  It is inexpensive  and easy to replace.  If you really want to "improve" your pitch trim  system.  Replace the bungee with some sort of coiled spring set up.   However you will probably have to buy "mucho dollars" worth of different coil  springs to finally come up with the right one.  Maybe the Tennessee guys  had it right the first time, since bungee loops can easily be adjusted for more  or less strength by making the loop larger or smaller and it really is  inexpensive.  Yep, the KISS principal at work.  But as I have said  before, it is your airplane.  Build it like you want it, but plan on added  time and possible added dollars.  YMMV.

 Blue Skies,

 Buz



See what's new atblank">Make AOL Your Homepage.

  [quote][b]

N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:03 pm Post subject: Elevator trim

In a message dated 10/3/2007 9:37:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  N1BZRich(at)aol.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  What it    does have is a bungee cord loop set up that helps the pilot pull on the    elevator trim push pull rod. 	


 

 I just noticed a mistake in the above sentence  - to correct it take  out the word trim.  

 Sorry bout that, but didn't want to confuse anyone.  The bungee pitch  trim system helps the pilot pull on the elevator push/pull rod that runs from  behind the seat to the elevator control horn.  

 Buz



See what's new atblank">Make AOL Your Homepage.

  [quote][b]

testpilot(at)wildblue.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:36 pm Post subject: Elevator trim

I have installed a different latching system that connects to 4 points and

door handles ( not completed yet). I can lock the aircraft up on one or both

sides on the canopy but you can still get into the aircraft to take what you

want with one blow of a hammer, and they do that. The main purpose of the

new latches was: 1. To make the canopy seal better and not move during

flight.

                             2.  Had some old parts around and had nothing

to do for a month.

I will say if you are going to modify your canopy latch it is much easier to

do it before the glass goes on.  It is a lot of trouble and extra cost so

think about it. Me, I was bored so I did it.



I am finally near the end of the build, Started in January and took my time

making lots of changes, most of them costing me weight and amps. Hope to get

the Inspection in the about 30 days.

I would like to hear what changes people have been making on their

Ligntnings. Here are some of the changes I have made and items I have added.



Modified new type seat pans, built tilting seat backs with headrest,

installed 5 point seat belts with inertia locking reels. New canopy  lock

system. Installed eng pre-oiler, parking brakes and sound proofing.



Dual throttle, larger control sticks (1-1/8") to fit some old cobra (AH1G)

grips I had. Can work flaps, trim, autopilot, change freq and swap radios

from the grips

Put an airspeed limit switch on the flaps, automatic trim with flap change

(FPS) Set up flaps for six positions. Set circuit breakers on removable

panels for maintenance.  Full IFR, night, etc. I will do dynamic balancing.

As for the Paint and upholstery, well all I'll say is it is different and I

am having fun at 60.  All this in a light sport.



Now I start weighing. Pray for me!!!!



This has been a fun build, people at Lightning have been great. Greg Hobbs

was  great to work with and Crystal Hobbs really knows how to cook.



Johnny Thompson N8WN    Tucson area



---

Kayberg(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:33 am Post subject: Elevator trim

In a message dated 10/3/2007 7:04:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  rickss(at)verizon.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

Interesting that you mentioned the manual trim wheel. When I went    up to Green Landings for a demo flight with Ryan, we both agreed that we would    like a manual trim wheel, too....well I should speak for Ryan, but I would    like it



-Rick

	


 

  

 It wouldnt be a trim wheel, because trim wheel mechanics would be a pain,  but why not an RV-style trim?

  

 The just use a vernier throttle cable.  It would allow for rough or  fine trim.   Should be easy to install once you determine the  length.  Light and simple.

  

 doug koenigsberg



See " target="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.

  [quote][b]

Colin K.

Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 157
Location: Oklahoma

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:01 pm Post subject: Elevator trim

This we gotta see a picture of Johnny!



Particularly the canopy latches. Please.



Colin K.

OK



--

_________________
Colin K.
OK

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