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Kolb Mark III with 912ULS weights and speeds

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DBforfun

Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 12
Location: N Calif.

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:13 am Post subject: Kolb Mark III with 912ULS weights and speeds

I am in the process of licensing my Kolb LSA and removing the 2  stroke and installing a new 912ULS.  

  

 For those running a 100 hp on a Mark III what are you using for gross  weight?

  

 What is your empty weight?

  

 What are your flying speeds?

  

 cruise?

  

 stall? 

  

 landing approach?

  

 VX?

  

 VY?

  

 Thanks in advance for all your help.

  

 Dan

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

 t



See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

  [quote][b]

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NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:10 pm Post subject: Kolb Mark III with 912ULS weights and speeds

Dan

  

 I haven't seen a response to your questions. The real answer is they are  different on every airplane. Remember these aren't production airplanes. The  weight for example will vary for the same model and engine by 150 lbs. or more.  You need to weigh your own plane and do the weight and balance calculations.The  only way to get the flying speeds is to fly it. If your DAR doesn't  understand this get another one fast.

  

 Sorry

  

 Rick Neilsen

 Redrive VW powered MKIIIC

 [quote]   ---

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jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:35 am Post subject: Kolb Mark III with 912ULS weights and speeds

Dan, Not having a 912 on a MkIII, I was hesitant to tell you what Rick just did. One other thing you should know. I have seen others given advice on this forum to "just make the maximum weight what ever you want", or words to that effect. The trouble with that is that in your operating limitations under paragraph 6 you will be asked to put these words in your aircraft's logbook. "I certify that the prescribed flight test hours have been completed and the aircraft is controllable throughout its normal range of speeds and throughout all maneuvers to be executed, has no hazardous operating characteristics or design features, and is safe for operation. The flight test was completed under all the following conditions:  "Maximum operating weight, maximum demonstrated airspeed and maximum demonstrated stall speed"  This is what ends your phase 1 testing and allows you to use your aircraft as a two place and outside of your test area. 

So whatever you put in your weight and balance as Maximum Take Off Weight (MTOW) you'd better be ready to pile sand bags (the cheap way, although it's bulky), or lead shot bags (real pricey) into the passenger seat and fly it that way. 

This is why you build light, because every pound of engine and whizbang gotta havums you put in the airplane subtracts from your useful load. Add enough and you may find yourself with a single passenger two seat aircraft, or a two place aircraft with a 50 mile range. 



Rick

On 10/3/07, Richard & Martha Neilsen <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net (NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net)> wrote:[quote]        Dan

  

 I haven't seen a response to your questions. The real answer is they are  different on every airplane. Remember these aren't production airplanes. The  weight for example will vary for the same model and engine by 150 lbs. or more.  You need to weigh your own plane and do the weight and balance calculations.The  only way to get the flying speeds is to fly it. If your DAR doesn't  understand this get another one fast.

  

 Sorry

  

 Rick Neilsen

 Redrive VW powered MKIIIC

 [quote]   ---

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JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:20 am Post subject: Re: Kolb Mark III with 912ULS weights and speeds

I have a Mark III Xtra with a Rotax 912-S and here are my data with vortex generators installed.   This is very non scientific, but just what I see flying from day to day.



Weight Empty about 650 lbs

Cruise  70 MPH at 4500 RPM, very low power, it will go 80 if I fly run 5000 but it feels great at 70 and 4500 and uses much less fuel, just around 3.5 GPH.



Stall 28 indicated, no flaps...  Not much different with flaps.  Its actually faster, but there is error in airspeed due to angle of attack.



Best rate of  climb is 50-60 MPH.  I aim for 60 for safety margin - A sudden power failure in this very high angle of climb needs a very large, positive and quick foward stick input to avoid a stall .  Best angle seems about the same, I don't see much advantage climbing slower than that.   



I normally fly approach at 60, just for safety since I have a long runway.  Best glide seems around 50.  That being said, the plane feels really good at 40 indicated on approach.  I would NOT make a habit out of that though, that is just for very short field.



Mike

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"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:43 am Post subject: Kolb Mark III with 912ULS weights and speeds

> I have a Mark III Xtra with a Rotax 912-S and here are my data with 

vortex generators installed.   This is very non scientific, but just what I 

see flying from day to day.

How about some numbers without VG's?



Based on your numbers with VG's, I'd happily do a side by side comparison 

with you.  I'd much rather wing than tie.



You said flaps do not affect stall speed on your airplane with VG's.  Maybe 

that is why Richard Pike did not use his when we were doing our flight.  ???



I am still convinced the only way to do the comparison is do it in the air. 

Being less than precise and scientific, individual flight tests before and 

after leave a lot of room to question the true validity of the resulting 

numbers.  We used to have a saying in MX racing when I was a very young 

puppy, "When the green flag drops, the BS stops."



john h

mkIII

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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

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