Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

air/oil separators

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Commander-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

amg(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:06 pm Post subject: air/oil separators

Does anyone have air/oil separators on thier planes? I would appreciate 

any comments on this.



Roland

moe(at)rosspistons.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:44 pm Post subject: air/oil separators

Roland,



What model do you have, and are you referring to the engine oil separators,

of the vacuum pump oil separators?



Thanks!



Moe

---

cschuerm(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:59 pm Post subject: air/oil separators

Nancy & Roland Gilliam wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Does anyone have air/oil separators on thier planes? I would appreciate 

 any comments on this.


	


I put an M20 on one of my airplanes and couldn't see much improvment.

moe(at)rosspistons.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:43 pm Post subject: air/oil separators

Chris,



Assuming that you are referring to the engine(s), not the vacuum pump(s),

how many horsepower did the engine(s) have?  Also, how many horsepower was

the M20 rated for? I have been working on two for my 680F(p) because no one

seems to have one with enough internal screen area to handle 380 HP and lots

of RPM that geared engines like. The oil separators are finished, but

mounting them high enough is a bit challenging.  When that is figgered out,

a one time field approval will be secured from the local FAA.



Regards,



Moe

N680RR

680F(p)

---

cschuerm(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:59 pm Post subject: air/oil separators

Moe wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Assuming that you are referring to the engine(s), not the vacuum pump(s),

 how many horsepower did the engine(s) have?  Also, how many horsepower was

 the M20 rated for? I have been working on two for my 680F(p) because no one

 seems to have one with enough internal screen area to handle 380 HP and lots

 of RPM that geared engines like. The oil separators are finished, but

 mounting them high enough is a bit challenging.  When that is figgered out,

 a one time field approval will be secured from the local FAA.


	


Moe,

It was a twin-turbo IO-540 in a Bellanca Super Viking.  That is a *VERY* 

tight engine installation and impossible to mount the unit very high. 

My personal opinion is that the M20 just isn't physically large enough 

to do much good, but apparently others have had better luck than I did, 

so maybe the installation had a lot to do with it.  M20 is rated for up 

to 950hp.  Their claims are rather outrageous (again, my opinion).

Copied straight from their web site:



==========

1.      Engines last up to 75% longer.

       That is, TBOs from 2,800 hours to 3,500 hours, depending on 

make.  That would be engine life cost savings of about $10,000 to 

$25,000.  Do the arithmetic yourself.



2.      FULL oil provides greater cooling of CHT, EGT (and TIT on 

turbod engines). That is generally enough to lean 2 GPH to 4 GPH less 

fuel flow than book settings and stay safely rich of peak.



       Savings amount to $14,000 to $28,000 at todays fuel prices.  Add 

this to the engine life savings, above.  Do the arithmetic yourself.

cschuerm(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:27 pm Post subject: air/oil separators

Thought I'd add one more "opinion"....



After having an airplane with and without a separator, cutting one apart 

to see how it works, and thinking about it quite a bit, I came to the 

conclusion that I'd rather have some oil blown out than have a 

separator.  My logic is that the separator not only condenses oil mist 

and returns it to the engine, it also does much the same for oil-trapped 

moisture.  I felt that it was actually noticable visibly with my 

airplane and became concerned that I was going to cause rust/corrosion 

formation.  Probably a non-issue if  you fly every day, but for my once 

a week flying it was a concern.



chris

amg(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:27 pm Post subject: air/oil separators

Moe,.



I have a  straight 500 (0540's) 250 hp. and I'm referring to the 

engines. I'm adding about 1 quart of oil per 1 1/2 hours per engine, but 

 a lot of it is on the ground . This tells me that it is blowing out all 

the time it is flying. Maybe I have excessive blow by, but compressions 

 are ok. Engines are 1100 hrs each app.



Thanks,



Roland

Moe wrote:



[quote]



Roland,



What model do you have, and are you referring to the engine oil separators,

of the vacuum pump oil separators?



Thanks!



Moe

---

BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:15 pm Post subject: air/oil separators

I have M20's on my 560F and they work great with 2 1200 hour engines. We  

also put 2 on a 680FP  and they are working well. However, on the 680FP we  had 

to rig up a scavenging system to get the oil back to the engine due to the  

volume of oil they collected. That took a while to figure out. We are preparing  

to put a set on a 500S next. The M-20 STC does cover the Aero Commander.

 

Bill Leff

moe(at)rosspistons.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:33 am Post subject: air/oil separators

Bill,



Where did you mount the M20's on the 680F(p)?  Did the scavenge lines go

down to the oil return lines that go to the cylinder heads?.  This might be

a little easier for me than getting a one time field approval on my "home

made" separators.



Thanks very much for the help, as I just can't seem to keep the top of the

engine nacelles from dripping oil no matter how tight the engines are.



Regards,



Moe

N680RR

680F(p)

---

moe(at)rosspistons.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:52 am Post subject: air/oil separators

Chris and Roland,



I have read with interest Chris' comments on returning water vapour to the engine when an oil separator is used.  This could very well be a concern as the steam would ordinarily go out of the breather tube (when the oil temp goes up to 212) instead of collecting on the separator screen and returning to the engine oil.  Here in sunny Southern California where it never rains and the humidity is generally pretty low this may not be a concern (except that we are by the ocean).  Thanks for bringing this up.



Regards,



Moe

N680RR

680F(p)

steve2(at)sover.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:38 am Post subject: air/oil separators

The more I learn the more I think it's a bad idea to recover the vapors and 

contaminants leaving the crankcase.



I did have an oil seperator freeze up on me warming up in a TU-206. It was 

negative something or other, so real cold. But it wasn't until that day I 

really knew there was nothing on the gauges to tell me anything was wrong. 

Preheat warmed the engine enough, but not the seperator. Always suprised how 

much water gets generated and cycled through aircraft engines....



Steve



---

RRamm52(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:40 am Post subject: air/oil separators

Hi, Roland

As you know, I flew her for 100 hrs or so and I believe that a good set of 

seperators would help considerably, also......she's a great plane... [vbg]

Rob



In a message dated 2/20/2006 8:34:20 PM Central Standard Time, amg(at)nc.rr.com 

writes: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Moe,.

 

 I have a  straight 500 (0540's) 250 hp. and I'm referring to the 

 engines. I'm adding about 1 quart of oil per 1 1/2 hours per engine, but 

 a lot of it is on the ground . This tells me that it is blowing out all 

 the time it is flying. Maybe I have excessive blow by, but compressions 

 are ok. Engines are 1100 hrs each app.

 

 Thanks,

 

 Roland

BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:05 pm Post subject: air/oil separators

Moe, I mounted the M-20's on brackets I made and hung them from the exhaust  

chutes 

 

On the 560F I drained them into the rocker drain tube.

 

On  the 680F, the IGSO-540 has too much case pressure to allow good  draining 

from the M-20's. I recommend that you plumb the drain into the inlet  side of 

the vacuum pump.  Loravco Aviation (in Bloomington,  IL) figured out another 

way that also works but I prefer using the vacuum  pump.

 

Bill Leff

moe(at)rosspistons.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:43 am Post subject: air/oil separators

Bill,



Thanks much for the advice.  I had built my air/ oil separators with a

little over one quart capacity each thinking that the oil would drain back

into the rocker drain tubes after the engines were shut down.  Running the

oil back into the intake side of the wet vacuum pumps had concerned me, as I

was afraid that the vacuum pump air/ oil separators would become over loaded

and that the extra oil would wind up in the de-ice boots which feed off of

the pressure side of the vacuum pumps. Did the 680F that you fed back into

the vacuum pumps have boots?  Do you think that my concerns are incorrect?

Again thank you very much for the advice.



Regards,



Moe

N680RR

680F(p)

---

BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:04 pm Post subject: air/oil separators

It should not be a problem. It would be prudent to keep an eye on the boot  

separator. On my T-6 air show plane I use this type system with a separator and 

 it gets swamped with massive amounts of oil during inverted flight and it 

works  great.

 

Bill

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Commander-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum