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VW Deminstration Flights at Homecoming

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NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:45 am Post subject: VW Deminstration Flights at Homecoming

Now that I have offended the VG folks I going to  risk offending the 912 guys.

  

 I demoed the redrive VW engine on my MKIIIC for the  attendees at Homecoming and except for forgetting to retract my flaps a few  times I think we did OK. The engine ( I think ) performs about like a 80 HP  912. I will agree with everyone that it doesn't have the proven reliability of  the 912. With that said is can be had for $7,000 to $10,000 less. It doesn't  have the startup or shut down shakes. It idles as low as 800 RPM and was told by  a few that it is quieter and better sounding than than a 912. I have  never heard it fly by. I had one person say that they were undecided but after  seeing it fly they were sold!

  

 Thanks for all the kind words at  homecoming.

  

 One more thing I missed both flights of the direct  drive 1/2 VW on the original Firestar but I'm told that it performed very well.  With my experience with my direct engine I would never guessed it. The  weekend was a learning experience. 

  

 Rick Neilsen

 Redrive VW powered  MKIIIC

   [quote][b]

dhkey(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:04 am Post subject: VW Deminstration Flights at Homecoming

I was impressed to see you fly it at the Homecomming, it does sound good. I'm glad there is effort going toward that option on the engine mounts. I would of been much more impressed if you didn't trailer it in (that said a lot too).

  

 

 

 [quote]  From: NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Kolb-List: VW Deminstration Flights at Homecoming

Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 14:41:09 -0400



     Now that I have offended the VG folks I going to risk offending the 912 guys.

  

 I demoed the redrive VW engine on my MKIIIC for the attendees at Homecoming and except for forgetting to retract my flaps a few times I think we did OK. The engine ( I think ) performs about like a 80 HP 912. I will agree with everyone that it doesn't have the proven reliability of the 912. With that said is can be had for $7,000 to $10,000 less. It doesn't have the startup or shut down shakes. It idles as low as 800 RPM and was told by a few that it is quieter and better sounding than than a 912. I have never heard it fly by. I had one person say that they were undecided but after seeing it fly they were sold!

  

 Thanks for all the kind words at homecoming.

  

 One more thing I missed both flights of the direct drive 1/2 VW on the original Firestar but I'm told that it performed very well. With my experience with my direct engine I would never guessed it. The weekend was a learning experience. 

  

 Rick Neilsen

 Redrive VW powered MKIIIC

 	  Quote: 	
		  



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[b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:05 am Post subject: VW Deminstration Flights at Homecoming

Rick N:

  

 Do you think VG guys or 912 guys have the thinnest  skin?  Or is it VW guys???

  

 Personally, until I found out the VW with a straight  stinger exhaust was quieter and sounded better than a 912, I was pretty happy  with your demo.  

  

 Seriously, I too like the straight single stinger on your  VW.  I have always been partial to them on dune buggies and Formula  V's.  Nothing sounds sweeter than one winding out.

  

 I watched the 1/2 VW fly on the FS.  It seemed to do  a good job.  Sorry, but I did not take time to take a close look at it and  the installation.

  

 I used to fly with  a friend who flew a N3 Pup and a  1/2 VW.  I was flying a FS with point ign 447.  He was always harping  on me about how much more reliable a 4 stroke was than the 447 I was  flying.  We were crossing the mountains between my strip and his, 60 miles  away.  Got a call on the radio, like, "John, I am going down."   Luckily there was a small hay field to land it.  He broke a valve spring  and the Pup was down.  If a 912 lost a valve spring, most likely, it would  also be going down.  There is no perfect solution, but I am partial to my  set up.

  

 Now, as far as an idle contest, I don't have a  chance.  Mine idles at 1,600 rpm.  

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

 [quote]   Now that I have offended the VG folks I going to    risk offending the 912 guys.

    

   Rick Neilsen

   Redrive VW powered  MKIIIC

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:40 am Post subject: VW Deminstration Flights at Homecoming

David

  

 I have app 25 hours on the pre production model of their  redrive. It is doing well but flying in from Michigan over the area I saw  over London would have said I was STUPID.

  

 Rick Neilsen

 Redrive VW powered MKIIIC   

 [quote]   ---

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:04 am Post subject: VW Deminstration Flights at Homecoming

From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>

...........

I watched the 1/2 VW fly on the FS.  It seemed to do a good job.  Sorry, but I did not take time to take a close look at it and the installation.

...........  



John, Steve, & Kolber's,



Is there any info on who this fellow is?  I would like to talk to him.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:16 am Post subject: VW Deminstration Flights at Homecoming

> Is there any info on who this fellow is?  I would like to talk to him.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Jack B. Hart FF004


	




Jack:



Contact Travis, at TNK.  He has contact info on this gentleman.  I believe 

he lives in the London, KY, area.



Wish I had taken time to look at the FS w/1/2 VW more carefully.



Homer Kolb took a good look at it.  At one time they ran it up on the 

ground.  Homer was helping him hold it down.



Later Homer told me there was a lot of vibration in the engine, even when 

run up to WOT and cruise rpm.



I believe it is a direct drive with no torsional vibration dampening.



Take care,



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

jimh474(at)embarqmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:36 am Post subject: VW Deminstration Flights at Homecoming

Y'all;

 1/2 VW's are almost impossible to balance. The one  that I built a few years back was balanced by a friend of Bro John's and mine  who built high performance engines. It liked to have drove him mad trying to  balance it.

 The vibration at WOT was not too severe, but it kept  your attention.

 I eliminated most of the top end vibration by adding a  1/4 inch thick steel tab on the propeller bolts 90 degrees from No 1  cylinder TDC. This tab was about 2 inches by 3 inches. I don't remember what the  weight was now.

 The problem of the vibration has something to do with  the connecting rod angle to the piston and crankshaft. At least that is what I  was told by an engineer.

 Good little engines if they had a decent redrive on  them.

 Do not archive.

 Jim Hauck

On 10/7/2007 10:16:12  AM, John Hauck (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com))  wrote:

[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>

 > Is there any info on who this fellow is?  I would like to  talk to him.

 >

 > Jack B. Hart FF004

 Jack:

 Contact Travis, at TNK.  He has contact  info on this gentleman.  I believe

 he lives in the London,  KY, area.

 Wish I had taken time to look at the FS w/1/2 VW more  carefully.

 Homer Kolb took a good look at it.  At one time  they ran it up on the

 ground.  Homer was helping him hold it  down.

 Later Homer told me there was a lot of vibration in the  engine, even when

 run up to WOT and cruise rpm.

 I believe it is a direct drive with no torsional vibration  dampening.

 Take care,

 john h

  mkIII

  ===========

  Kolb-List Email  browse

  Photoshare, and much  href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List    [quote][b]

herbgh

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 145

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:04 am Post subject: VW Deminstration Flights at Homecoming

Jack



    He is not "net worthy".. however I have his number...



  The engine was on loan from another fellows Firefly..East Tenn

area..Knoxville.. The engine is back on the Firefly .. It has dual ign

and  is well stroked.. Forget but I think over 84mm.. 92 or 94 jugs..  40

horses or so?  The owner is currently working on a 90 mm stroker.. I did

not know that 90 mm was possible..? Gonna go over and see that one.. 

Easy day trip from south cent. Ky.  Been saying that for a year however!

 



   If one allows Scott Casler balance the rotating parts(125 bucks) ;

then the engine runs very smooth..idles well at 600 rpms or so.. may or

may not have a rough spot around 1400 to 1600 rpms.. requires a fly

weight on the prop hub. 



  I fly Global,half vw's on my N3 pup and am absolutely open to

installing a vw on my Firefly or TriFly that is currently percolating in

my head!   



   VW's , especially half vw's with cut cases take a hit because of oil

leaks.. I sealed my Globals with goo that sells for 15 bucks a tube..

Anerobic sealant..forget the brand.red tube .maybe Great Planes sells it?

 No oil leaks.. 



  It is important to have a good crankcase vent system.. That area can be

the source for an oily belly if ill designed...



  Nice thing is that a half vw can be freshened with all new

bearings,jugs, pistons, rings and wrist pins,valves,keepers for less than

$300 bucks..  Price of one 582 piston?  Wrist pin extra?   



   I will send you the number by private mail...Herb 

  

On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 09:12:37 -0500 "Jack B. Hart"

<jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net> writes:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>

 

 From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>

 ............

 I watched the 1/2 VW fly on the FS.  It seemed to do a good job.  

 Sorry, but I did not take time to take a close look at it and the 

 installation.

 ............  

 

 John, Steve, & Kolber's,

 

 Is there any info on who this fellow is?  I would like to talk to 

 him.

 

 Jack B. Hart FF004

 Winchester, IN

herbgh

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 145

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:47 am Post subject: VW Deminstration Flights at Homecoming

Jim

   Yep! Balancing the little hummers  is an art.. something  like   100 % of the rotating mass and 35% of the recriprocating mass..  

     likely never would run as smooth as most  of the  two cycles.. That said...Very adequate if properly isolated... The Global in my  Pup is running is 20 year old isolators and is not well balanced..still in  all..not tremendously  worse than the 447 on my Firefly.. neat thing is the  600 rpm idle..  I will have it balanced .  Currently the instrument  panel has to be isolated to try to preserve the instruments.. 

   Neat thing is to get to cruise alt and dial in the Egts..lean it out  a bit... Just be sure to richen  for landing! 

   I remember and have chatted with the fellow who headed the half vw  project at Team Aircraft (mini max) .  He tells it as a disaster..I recall  seeing one hand propped at a flyin in middle tenn..I thought the engine would  separate from the airframe..?   They gave up... This back in the late  80's or early 90's.. 

    However... than said... Scott Casler has refined the balance  process over the years.(others too I guess ) (he worked with Morrey Hummel)  

     Extra weight has to be added to the rear of the crank  and the final tune is to calculate the prop hub fly wt.. Like you I am tempted  to add a guesstimate prop hub wt.  Scott says that it is peeing in the  wind.. 

        Early Hummel engines were really bad I  am told..

     The redrive problem has to do with the inherent intent  of the engine to shake its self to pieces..Both pistons are in and out  together.. The torsionals are severe and attemps to redrive them has lead to  very early belt failure.. Valley Engineering who made Ricks redrive tried but  failed.. Herb 

 On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 10:38:11 -0400 "Jim Hauck" <jimh474(at)embarqmail.com (jimh474(at)embarqmail.com)>  writes:

 [quote]   Y'all;

   1/2 VW's are almost impossible to balance. The one    that I built a few years back was balanced by a friend of Bro John's and mine    who built high performance engines. It liked to have drove him mad trying to    balance it.

   The vibration at WOT was not too severe, but it kept    your attention.

   I eliminated most of the top end vibration by adding    a 1/4 inch thick steel tab on the propeller bolts 90 degrees from No 1    cylinder TDC. This tab was about 2 inches by 3 inches. I don't remember what    the weight was now.

   The problem of the vibration has something to do    with the connecting rod angle to the piston and crankshaft. At least that is    what I was told by an engineer.

   Good little engines if they had a decent redrive on    them.

   Do not archive.

   Jim Hauck

On 10/7/2007 10:16:12    AM, John Hauck (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		      --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>

 > Is there any info on who this fellow is?  I would    like to talk to him.

 >

 > Jack B. Hart FF004

 Jack:

 Contact Travis, at TNK.  He has    contact info on this gentleman.  I believe

 he lives in    the London, KY, area.

 Wish I had taken time to look at the FS    w/1/2 VW more carefully.

 Homer Kolb took a good look at    it.  At one time they ran it up on the

 ground.  Homer was    helping him hold it down.

 Later Homer told me there was a lot    of vibration in the engine, even when

 run up to WOT and    cruise rpm.

 I believe it is a direct drive with no torsional    vibration dampening.

 Take care,

 john    h

 mkIII

 ===========

 Kolb-List Email    browse

 Photoshare, and much    href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List   	  Quote: 	

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jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:12 am Post subject: VW Deminstration Flights at Homecoming

Herb, et al, The perfect 1/2 VW is out there. It runs like a charm, sips gas, and is a bolt on for a Firestar or Fire Fly. It's called the HKS700E. 

Rick

On 10/7/07,  herbgh(at)juno.com (herbgh(at)juno.com) <herbgh(at)juno.com (herbgh(at)juno.com)> wrote:[quote]        Jim

   Yep! Balancing the little hummers  is an art.. something  like   100 % of the rotating mass and 35% of the recriprocating mass..  

     likely never would run as smooth as most  of the  two cycles.. That said...Very adequate if properly isolated... The Global in my  Pup is running is 20 year old isolators and is not well balanced..still in  all..not tremendously  worse than the 447 on my Firefly.. neat thing is the  600 rpm idle..  I will have it balanced .  Currently the instrument  panel has to be isolated to try to preserve the instruments.. 

   Neat thing is to get to cruise alt and dial in the Egts..lean it out  a bit... Just be sure to richen  for landing! 

   I remember and have chatted with the fellow who headed the half vw  project at Team Aircraft (mini max) .  He tells it as a disaster..I recall  seeing one hand propped at a flyin in middle tenn..I thought the engine would  separate from the airframe..?   They gave up... This back in the late  80's or early 90's.. 

    However... than said... Scott Casler has refined the balance  process over the years.(others too I guess ) (he worked with Morrey Hummel)  

     Extra weight has to be added to the rear of the crank  and the final tune is to calculate the prop hub fly wt.. Like you I am tempted  to add a guesstimate prop hub wt.  Scott says that it is peeing in the  wind.. 

        Early Hummel engines were really bad I  am told..

     The redrive problem has to do with the inherent intent  of the engine to shake its self to pieces..Both pistons are in and out  together.. The torsionals are severe and attemps to redrive them has lead to  very early belt failure.. Valley Engineering who made Ricks redrive tried but  failed.. Herb 

 On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 10:38:11 -0400 "Jim Hauck" <jimh474(at)embarqmail.com (jimh474(at)embarqmail.com)>  writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Y'all;

   1/2 VW's are almost impossible to balance. The one    that I built a few years back was balanced by a friend of Bro John's and mine    who built high performance engines. It liked to have drove him mad trying to    balance it.

   The vibration at WOT was not too severe, but it kept    your attention.

   I eliminated most of the top end vibration by adding    a 1/4 inch thick steel tab on the propeller bolts 90 degrees from No 1    cylinder TDC. This tab was about 2 inches by 3 inches. I don't remember what    the weight was now.

   The problem of the vibration has something to do    with the connecting rod angle to the piston and crankshaft. At least that is    what I was told by an engineer.

   Good little engines if they had a decent redrive on    them.

   Do not archive.

   Jim Hauck

On 10/7/2007 10:16:12    AM, John Hauck (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		      --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>

 >    

 	  Quote: 	

 > Is there any info on who this fellow is?  I would    like to talk to him.

 >

 > Jack B. Hart FF004

 Jack:

 Contact Travis, at TNK.  He has    contact info on this gentleman.  I believe

 he lives in    the London, KY, area.

 Wish I had taken time to look at the FS    w/1/2 VW more carefully.

 Homer Kolb took a good look at    it.  At one time they ran it up on the

 ground.  Homer was    helping him hold it down.

 Later Homer told me there was a lot    of vibration in the engine, even when

 run up to WOT and    cruise rpm.

 I believe it is a direct drive with no torsional    vibration dampening.

 Take care,

 john    h

 mkIII

 ===========

 Kolb-List Email    browse

 Photoshare, and much    href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List   	  Quote: 	

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neilsenrm(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:25 am Post subject: VW Deminstration Flights at Homecoming

Talk to Steve Bennit (sp) at Great Plains he would be real up front with 1/2 VW issues. I never saw the engine runnig up close but it looked rough. I think I took a close up of it if any one is intrested but I'm not at home now were the photos are.

 As for a redrive my new drive might work on a 1/2 VW it was ourigionally designed to run on that V twin Genrec engine that Valley sells. That V twin has to be the worst harmonic monster going but? Talk to Gene Smith at Valley. I was told that the performance was good without it.

 And I agree the HKS would be a much better engine.

 Rick Neilsen

 Redrive VW powered MKIIIC  

 [quote]-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: herbgh(at)juno.com 

    Jim

   Yep! Balancing the little hummers  is an art.. something like   100 % of the rotating mass and 35% of the recriprocating mass.. 

     likely never would run as smooth as most  of the two cycles.. That said...Very adequate if properly isolated... The Global in my Pup is running is 20 year old isolators and is not well balanced..still in all..not tremendously  worse than the 447 on my Firefly.. neat thing is the 600 rpm idle..  I will have it balanced .  Currently the instrument panel has to be isolated to try to preserve the instruments.. 

   Neat thing is to get to cruise alt and dial in the Egts..lean it out a bit... Just be sure to richen  for landing! 

   I remember and have chatted with the fellow who headed the half vw project at Team Aircraft (mini max) .  He tells it as a disaster..I recall seeing one hand propped at a flyin in middle tenn..I thought the engine would separate from the airframe..?   They gave up... This back in the late 80's or early 90's.. 

    However... than said... Scott Casler has refined the balance process over the years.(others too I guess ) (he worked with Morrey Hummel) 

     Extra weight has to be added to the rear of the crank and the final tune is to calculate the prop hub fly wt.. Like you I am tempted to add a guesstimate prop hub wt.  Scott says that it is peeing in the wind.. 

        Early Hummel engines were really bad I am told..

     The redrive problem has to do with the inherent intent of the engine to shake its self to pieces..Both pistons are in and out together.. The torsionals are severe and attemps to redrive them has lead to very early belt failure.. Valley Engineering who made Ricks redrive tried but failed.. Herb 

 On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 10:38:11 -0400 "Jim Hauck" <jimh474(at)embarqmail.com (jimh474(at)embarqmail.com)> writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		   Y'all;

 1/2 VW's are almost impossible to balance. The one that I built a few years back was balanced by a friend of Bro John's and mine who built high performance engines. It liked to have drove him mad trying to balance it.

 The vibration at WOT was not too severe, but it kept your attention.

 I eliminated most of the top end vibration by adding a 1/4 inch thick steel tab on the propeller bolts 90 degrees from No 1 cylinder TDC. This tab was about 2 inches by 3 inches. I don't remember what the weight was now.

 The problem of the vibration has something to do with the connecting rod angle to the piston and crankshaft. At least that is what I was told by an engineer.

 Good little engines if they had a decent redrive on them.

 Do not archive.

 Jim Hauck

On 10/7/2007 10:16:12 AM, John Hauck (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>

 > Is there any info on who this fellow is?  I would like to talk to him.

 >

 > Jack B. Hart FF004

 Jack:

 Contact Travis, at TNK.  He has contact info on this gentleman.  I believe

 he lives in the London, KY, area.

 Wish I had taken time to look at the FS w/1/2 VW more carefully.

 Homer Kolb took a good look at it.  At one time they ran it up on the

 ground.  Homer was helping him hold it down.

 Later Homer told me there was a lot of vibration in the engine, even when

 run up to WOT and c  ruise  rpm.

 I believe it is a direct drive with no torsional vibration dampening.

 Take care,

 john h

 mkIII

 ===========

 Kolb-List Email browse

 Photoshare, and much href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List  	  Quote: 	

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lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:32 am Post subject: Re: VW Deminstration Flights at Homecoming

 	  jindoguy(at)gmail.com wrote: 	
		  Herb, et al, The perfect 1/2 VW is out there. It runs like a charm, sips gas, and is a bolt on for a Firestar or Fire Fly. It's called the HKS700E. 



Rick 	




Ok, going to probably p*** some guys off again but.....



May as well just go with the 503 at that point. It can be installed with the B box and the pull start, which will save a bunch of weight and will cost less by almost half. 



Even with the C box and clutch that I have on mine, it's lighter than the HKS by a little bit, mostly because electric start isn't needed.



I don't know what all the objections are the 2 strokes. I've got almost 10 years of flying in front of 503's and its reliability record is as good as my 912s so far . Not sure why guys seem to have so much trouble with them, never had so much as a cough out of any of my 503's and they've taken me all over the place..



Yeah you have to do teardowns/inspections/reseals on a fairly regular basis, but life sucks and then you die - we're mechanics anyway once we buy our airplanes anyway. The toolset from rotax is about 1000 if you get all the extravagant stuff such as the pin puller, circlip installation tool and all the pullers. You can get a basic set for less than that.



But then you can do all your own work except perhaps for major stuff like reboring cylinders and the like.



The 503 is as perfect a match for the FSII as you can get, run great, lasts a long time, burns 3 GPH and has a bunch of gearbox/ratio options.



It ain't broke so I don't see why it needs all this fixin'.... 



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

jimh474(at)embarqmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:32 am Post subject: VW Deminstration Flights at Homecoming

Herb;

  

 The prop hub plate did more to balance the engine than  anything else. Small flywheel added to the rear of the crankshaft and balanced  with the crankshaft may be the answer. But adding weight 90 degrees to the TDC  helps counteract the weight of both pistons moving in and out at the same  time.

  

 A friend of mine made a 2 cylinder out of a Type II VW  or Porsche 914 engine and it didn't have the same vibration  characteristics.

  

 I used a 35MM carb off of a Honda motor cycle and  adapted a needle valve in the float bowl that aligned with the main jet. This  arrangement developed the best power. I had a camshaft ground to put the power  band in the 2000 to 3000 RPM range. Static RPM was 2900.

  

 Jim Hauck

  

  

  10/7/2007 11:44:46 AM, herbgh(at)juno.com (herbgh(at)juno.com) wrote:

[quote] Jim

  Yep! Balancing the little hummers  is an art.. something like  100 %  of

 the rotating mass and 35% of the reciprocating mass..

  

 likely never would run as smooth as most of the two cycles.. That  said...

 Very adequate if properly isolated... The Global in my Pup is  running is

 20 year old isolators and is not well balanced..still in  all..not

 tremendously worse than the 447 on my Firefly.. neat thing is  the 600 rpm

 idle.. I will have it balanced . Currently the instrument  panel has to be

 isolated to try to preserve the instruments..

  

 Neat thing is to get to cruise alt and dial in the Egts..lean it out a  bit.

 .. Just be sure to richen for landing!

 

 I remember  and have chatted with the fellow who headed the half vw project

 at Team  Aircraft (mini max) . He tells it as a disaster..I recall seeing

 one  hand propped at a flyin in middle tenn..I thought the engine would

  separate from the airframe..?  They gave up... This back in the  late

 80's or early 90's..

 

 However... than said... Scott  Casler has refined the balance process over

 the years.(others too I  guess ) (he worked with Morrey Hummel)

 

 Extra weight has to be  added to the rear of the crank and the final

     	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:54 am Post subject: VW Deminstration Flights at Homecoming

Rick, I'd match my bored and stroked Shovelhead, "The Vibraglide", against any engine out there for butt deadening vibration. All the joy, and bolted solid to the frame, too. Old school for an old fool.  

 The only thing that lessens its gyrations is when I remember to bring 5 gallons of 100LL home from the airport. And not too darn much, at that.

I laughed like mad when I saw the HD adaptation for aircraft. Did anyone succeed in making hogs fly? 

Rick

On 10/7/07, neilsenrm(at)comcast.net (neilsenrm(at)comcast.net) <neilsenrm(at)comcast.net  (neilsenrm(at)comcast.net)> wrote:[quote] Talk to Steve Bennit (sp) at Great Plains he would be real up front with 1/2 VW issues. I never saw the engine runnig up close but it looked rough. I think I took a close up of it if any one is intrested but I'm not at home now were the photos are. 

 As for a redrive my new drive might work on a 1/2 VW it was ourigionally designed to run on that V twin Genrec engine that Valley sells. That V twin has to be the worst harmonic monster going but? Talk to Gene Smith at Valley. I was told that the performance was good without it. 

 And I agree the HKS would be a much better engine.

 Rick Neilsen

 Redrive VW powered MKIIIC  

  	  Quote: 	
		  -------------- Original message -------------- 

From:  herbgh(at)juno.com (herbgh(at)juno.com) 

    Jim

   Yep! Balancing the little hummers  is an art.. something like   100 % of the rotating mass and 35% of the recriprocating mass.. 

     likely never would run as smooth as most  of the two cycles.. That said...Very adequate if properly isolated... The Global in my Pup is running is 20 year old isolators and is not well balanced..still in all..not tremendously  worse than the 447 on my Firefly.. neat thing is the 600 rpm idle..  I will have it balanced .  Currently the instrument panel has to be isolated to try to preserve the instruments..  

   Neat thing is to get to cruise alt and dial in the Egts..lean it out a bit... Just be sure to richen  for landing! 

   I remember and have chatted with the fellow who headed the half vw project at Team Aircraft (mini max) .  He tells it as a disaster..I recall seeing one hand propped at a flyin in middle tenn..I thought the engine would separate from the airframe..?   They gave up... This back in the late 80's or early 90's..  

    However... than said... Scott Casler has refined the balance process over the years.(others too I guess ) (he worked with Morrey Hummel) 

     Extra weight has to be added to the rear of the crank and the final tune is to calculate the prop hub fly wt.. Like you I am tempted to add a guesstimate prop hub wt.  Scott says that it is peeing in the wind..  

        Early Hummel engines were really bad I am told..

     The redrive problem has to do with the inherent intent of the engine to shake its self to pieces..Both pistons are in and out together.. The torsionals are severe and attemps to redrive them has lead to very early belt failure.. Valley Engineering who made Ricks redrive tried but failed.. Herb  

 On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 10:38:11 -0400 "Jim Hauck" <jimh474(at)embarqmail.com (jimh474(at)embarqmail.com)> writes:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Y'all;

 1/2 VW's are almost impossible to balance. The one that I built a few years back was balanced by a friend of Bro John's and mine who built high performance engines. It liked to have drove him mad trying to balance it. 

 The vibration at WOT was not too severe, but it kept your attention.

 I eliminated most of the top end vibration by adding a 1/4 inch thick steel tab on the propeller bolts 90 degrees from No 1 cylinder TDC. This tab was about 2 inches by 3 inches. I don't remember what the weight was now. 

 The problem of the vibration has something to do with the connecting rod angle to the piston and crankshaft. At least that is what I was told by an engineer.

 Good little engines if they had a decent redrive on them.

 Do not archive.

 Jim Hauck

On 10/7/2007 10:16:12 AM, John Hauck (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com  (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> 

 > Is there any info on who this fellow is?  I would like to talk to him.

 >

 > Jack B. Hart FF004

 Jack:

 Contact Travis, at TNK.  He has contact info on this gentleman.  I believe 

 he lives in the London, KY, area.

 Wish I had taken time to look at the FS w/1/2 VW more carefully.

 Homer Kolb took a good look at it.  At one time they ran it up on the

 > ground.  Homer was helping him hold it down.

 	  Quote: 	

 Later Homer told me there was a lot of vibration in the engine, even when

 	  Quote: 	
		   run up to WOT and c  ruise  rpm.

 I believe it is a direct drive with no torsional vibration dampening.

 Take care,

 john h

 mkIII

 ===========

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 Photoshare, and much href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List  	  Quote: 	

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jimh474(at)embarqmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:59 am Post subject: VW Deminstration Flights at Homecoming

Lucien;

  

 Some of us Old Farts just like to tinker and build  things. Nothing wrong with a 2 stroke nor a four stroke what ever choice fits  your wagon.

  

 Do not archive

  

 Jim Hauck

  

 <lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com (lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com)>

[quote]  

 

 jindoguy(at)gmail.com wrote:

 > Herb, et al, The  perfect 1/2 VW is out there. It runs like a charm, sips

 gas, and is a  bolt on for a Firestar or Fire Fly.

 It's called the  HKS700E.



     	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

herbgh

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 145

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:43 am Post subject: VW Deminstration Flights at Homecoming

'cept I have about a thousand bucks in mine!!  

  

    Those I talk to with the newer HKS engines are all  praise...One trike flyer had his swapped out by the factory early on... The  Japanese do that! 

  

     little heavy for UL's however.  My globals weigh 84  lbs dry..  Herb 

  

   

  

 On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 11:12:11 -0500 "Richard Girard" <jindoguy(at)gmail.com (jindoguy(at)gmail.com)> writes:

 [quote]   Herb, et al, The perfect 1/2 VW is out there. It runs like a charm, sips    gas, and is a bolt on for a Firestar or Fire Fly. It's called the HKS700E.    



Rick

   On 10/7/07, herbgh(at)juno.com (herbgh(at)juno.com) <herbgh(at)juno.com (herbgh(at)juno.com)> wrote:    	  Quote: 	
		            Jim

       Yep! Balancing the little hummers  is an      art.. something like   100 % of the rotating mass and 35% of      the recriprocating mass.. 

      

         likely never would run as smooth as most  of      the two cycles.. That said...Very adequate if properly isolated... The      Global in my Pup is running is 20 year old isolators and is not well      balanced..still in all..not tremendously  worse than the 447 on my      Firefly.. neat thing is the 600 rpm idle..  I will have it balanced      .  Currently the instrument panel has to be isolated to try to preserve      the instruments.. 

      

       Neat thing is to get to cruise alt and dial in the Egts..lean it      out a bit... Just be sure to richen  for landing! 

      

       I remember and have chatted with the fellow who headed the half      vw project at Team Aircraft (mini max) .  He tells it as a disaster..I      recall seeing one hand propped at a flyin in middle tenn..I thought the      engine would separate from the airframe..?   They gave up... This      back in the late 80's or early 90's.. 

      

        However... than said... Scott Casler has refined the      balance process over the years.(others too I guess ) (he worked with Morrey      Hummel) 

      

         Extra weight has to be added to the rear of the      crank and the final tune is to calculate the prop hub fly wt.. Like you I am      tempted to add a guesstimate prop hub wt.  Scott says that it is peeing      in the wind.. 

      

            Early Hummel engines were really      bad I am told..

      

         The redrive problem has to do with the inherent      intent of the engine to shake its self to pieces..Both pistons are in and      out together.. The torsionals are severe and attemps to redrive them has      lead to very early belt failure.. Valley Engineering who made Ricks redrive      tried but failed.. Herb 

      

      

      

     On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 10:38:11 -0400 "Jim Hauck" <jimh474(at)embarqmail.com (jimh474(at)embarqmail.com)> writes:

      	  Quote: 	
		         Y'all;

        

       1/2 VW's are almost impossible to balance. The        one that I built a few years back was balanced by a friend of Bro John's        and mine who built high performance engines. It liked to have drove him        mad trying to balance it.

        

       The vibration at WOT was not too severe, but it        kept your attention.

        

       I eliminated most of the top end vibration by        adding a 1/4 inch thick steel tab on the propeller bolts 90 degrees        from No 1 cylinder TDC. This tab was about 2 inches by 3 inches. I don't        remember what the weight was now.

        

       The problem of the vibration has something to do        with the connecting rod angle to the piston and crankshaft. At least that        is what I was told by an engineer.

        

       Good little engines if they had a decent redrive        on them.

        

       Do not archive.

        

       Jim Hauck

On        10/7/2007 10:16:12 AM, John Hauck (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com))        wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>

 

        

 > Is there any info on who this fellow is?  I would like        to talk to him.

 >

 > Jack B. Hart FF004

        

 

 Jack:

 

 Contact        Travis, at TNK.  He has contact info on this gentleman.  I        believe

 

 he lives in the London, KY, area.

        

 Wish I had taken time to look at the FS w/1/2 VW more        carefully.

 

 Homer Kolb took a good look at it.  At        one time they ran it up on the

 ground.  Homer was helping him        hold it down.

 

 Later Homer told me there was a lot of        vibration in the engine, even when

 

 run up to WOT and        cruise rpm.

 

 I believe it is a direct drive with no        torsional vibration dampening.

 

 Take care,

        

 john h

 mkIII

 

 

        ===========

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herbgh

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 145

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:47 am Post subject: VW Deminstration Flights at Homecoming

Actually, think I have seen a fly wt cast into the prop hub of GA  engines?  Herb 

  

 do not archive

  

 On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 13:01:35 -0400 "Jim Hauck" <jimh474(at)embarqmail.com (jimh474(at)embarqmail.com)>  writes:

 [quote]   Lucien;

    

   Some of us Old Farts just like to tinker and build    things. Nothing wrong with a 2 stroke nor a four stroke what ever choice fits    your wagon.

    

   Do not archive

    

   Jim Hauck

    

   <lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com (lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com)>

 	  Quote: 	
		      

 

 jindoguy(at)gmail.com wrote:

 > Herb, et al, The    perfect 1/2 VW is out there. It runs like a charm, sips

 gas, and is a    bolt on for a Firestar or Fire Fly.

 It's called the    HKS700E.



 	  Quote: 	
		  
	




http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

matronics.com



	
    

[b]

jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:46 pm Post subject: VW Deminstration Flights at Homecoming

Herb, Yep, it's hard to beat a two stroke for weight, or a homebuilt for cost. I have stuff to experiment with and stuff to fly. I've had enough of only having experiments to fly, it always makes for more experiment and less flying. 



Rick



On 10/7/07, herbgh(at)juno.com (herbgh(at)juno.com) <herbgh(at)juno.com (herbgh(at)juno.com)> wrote: [quote]        'cept I have about a thousand bucks in mine!!  

  

    Those I talk to with the newer HKS engines are all  praise...One trike flyer had his swapped out by the factory early on... The  Japanese do that! 

  

     little heavy for UL's however.  My globals weigh 84  lbs dry..  Herb 

  

   

  

 On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 11:12:11 -0500 "Richard Girard" <jindoguy(at)gmail.com (jindoguy(at)gmail.com)> writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Herb, et al, The perfect 1/2 VW is out there. It runs like a charm, sips    gas, and is a bolt on for a Firestar or Fire Fly. It's called the HKS700E.    



Rick

   On 10/7/07, herbgh(at)juno.com (herbgh(at)juno.com) < herbgh(at)juno.com (herbgh(at)juno.com)> wrote:    	  Quote: 	
		            Jim

       Yep! Balancing the little hummers  is an      art.. something like   100 % of the rotating mass and 35% of      the recriprocating mass.. 

      

         likely never would run as smooth as most  of      the two cycles.. That said...Very adequate if properly isolated... The      Global in my Pup is running is 20 year old isolators and is not well      balanced..still in all..not tremendously  worse than the 447 on my      Firefly.. neat thing is the 600 rpm idle..  I will have it balanced      .  Currently the instrument panel has to be isolated to try to preserve      the instruments.. 

      

       Neat thing is to get to cruise alt and dial in the Egts..lean it      out a bit... Just be sure to richen  for landing! 

      

       I remember and have chatted with the fellow who headed the half      vw project at Team Aircraft (mini max) .  He tells it as a disaster..I      recall seeing one hand propped at a flyin in middle tenn..I thought the      engine would separate from the airframe..?   They gave up... This      back in the late 80's or early 90's.. 

      

        However... than said... Scott Casler has refined the      balance process over the years.(others too I guess ) (he worked with Morrey      Hummel) 

      

         Extra weight has to be added to the rear of the      crank and the final tune is to calculate the prop hub fly wt.. Like you I am      tempted to add a guesstimate prop hub wt.  Scott says that it is peeing      in the wind.. 

      

            Early Hummel engines were really      bad I am told..

      

         The redrive problem has to do with the inherent      intent of the engine to shake its self to pieces..Both pistons are in and      out together.. The torsionals are severe and attemps to redrive them has      lead to very early belt failure.. Valley Engineering who made Ricks redrive      tried but failed.. Herb 

      

      

      

     On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 10:38:11 -0400 "Jim Hauck" <jimh474(at)embarqmail.com (jimh474(at)embarqmail.com)> writes:

      

 	  Quote: 	
		         Y'all;

        

       1/2 VW's are almost impossible to balance. The        one that I built a few years back was balanced by a friend of Bro John's        and mine who built high performance engines. It liked to have drove him        mad trying to balance it.

        

       The vibration at WOT was not too severe, but it        kept your attention.

        

       I eliminated most of the top end vibration by        adding a 1/4 inch thick steel tab on the propeller bolts 90 degrees        from No 1 cylinder TDC. This tab was about 2 inches by 3 inches. I don't        remember what the weight was now.

        

       The problem of the vibration has something to do        with the connecting rod angle to the piston and crankshaft. At least that        is what I was told by an engineer.

        

       Good little engines if they had a decent redrive        on them.

        

       Do not archive.

        

       Jim Hauck

On        10/7/2007 10:16:12 AM, John Hauck (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com))        wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> 

 

        

 > Is there any info on who this fellow is?  I would like        to talk to him.

 >

 > Jack B. Hart FF004

        

 


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   Jack:

 

 Contact        Travis, at TNK.  He has contact info on this gentleman.  I        believe

 

 he lives in the London, KY, area.

        

 Wish I had taken time to look at the FS w/1/2 VW more        carefully.

 

 Homer Kolb took a good look at it.  At        one time they ran it up on the

 ground.  Homer was helping him        hold it down.

 

 Later Homer told me there was a lot of        vibration in the engine, even when

 


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   run up to WOT and        cruise rpm.

 

 I believe it is a direct drive with no        torsional vibration dampening.

 

 Take care,

        

 john h

 mkIII

 

 

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