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johnd(at)data-tech.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:30 am Post subject: Instrument Panel Access

Hi All,



I'm just wrapping up my electrical work and am getting close to putting 

on the front skin over the panel area. Riveting it per the factory seems 

to be a poor choice since I wont have any easy access to the rear of the 

panel.



So it seems like the options are:



A) Install nutplates or similar and make the entire skin removable. As I 

have a QB kit their are already 90+ rivet holes that would have to be 

fitted, so thats a lot of work.



B) Install the skin permanently but add a couple of access panels on the 

top. Seems like several folks on the list are doing this. My only 

concern with this approach would be water leaking under the access 

panel. Any ideas as to how to prevent/avoid this issue ?



Your thoughts/Ideas ?



Thanks in advance,

John Davis

Burnsville, NC

601XL QB - Jab 3300

Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:23 am Post subject: Instrument Panel Access

John,



I have posted drawings of my access panel.  Let me know if you would like me to e-mail them to you.  I set the doubler in silicone sealant. When I install the cover plate, I will run a bead of silicone around the exposed part of the doubler  and cover that with Saran before temporarily fastening the cover.  When the silicone has cured, I will remove the cover and Saran and have a "permanent" gasket.



Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J

Do not archive  

John Davis <johnd(at)data-tech.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Hi All,



I'm just wrapping up my electrical work and am getting close to putting 

on the front skin over the panel area. Riveting it per the factory seems 

to be a poor choice since I wont have any easy access to the rear of the 

panel.



So it seems like the options are:



A) Install nutplates or similar and make the entire skin removable. As I 

have a QB kit their are already 90+ rivet holes that would have to be 

fitted, so thats a lot of work.



B) Install the skin permanently but add a couple of access panels on the 

top. Seems like several folks on the list are doing this. My only 

concern with this approach would be water leaking under the access 

panel. Any ideas as to how to prevent/avoid this issue ?



Your thoughts/Ideas ?



Thanks in advance,

John Davis

Burnsville, NC

601XL QB - Jab 3300

SkipperClyde

Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 12

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:45 pm Post subject: Instrument Panel Access

I have seen sheet metal screws used instead of rivets.



phil

---

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: Instrument Panel Access

I'm using J-Nuts and screws all the way around the top skin.



http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?pagetype=ships&visitorinput=wr.giacona%40suddenlink.net&retrieveoutcome=FAILED_TO_IDENTIFY&inputtype=&search=&resultsContext=ORDNAV&resultsQueryStr=loademailform%3Dtrue

 	  SkipperClyde wrote: 	
		  I have seen sheet metal screws used instead of rivets.



phil

---

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

VideoFlyer(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:42 pm Post subject: Instrument Panel Access

In a message dated 10/10/2007 , wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net writes:

  

 <<<<I'm using J-Nuts and screws all the way around the top  skin>>>

  

 I did the same thing.

  

 Dave

 N618PZ

 601XL/Corvair





S>  [quote][b]

graeme(at)coletoolcentre.
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:07 pm Post subject: Instrument Panel Access

I think the savanna has a good idea for instrument panel.

The hole instrument panel panel is a removable, screwed (probably with 

rubber insulation for vibration) to

a riveted in frame for easy access.



Graeme Cairns

---

Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:10 pm Post subject: Instrument Panel Access

Are you guys aware that the cowling overlaps the forward top skin?  Therefore, you will have to remove the cowling to remove that skin for access. At least for the WW cowling, there is a tapered channel that fastens to the nose bowl and the top skin to support and locate the nose bowl.  Seems like having to remove the cowling kinda' defeats the purpose, or at least makes access a pretty involved process. Hopefully, you will never have to access it and then difficulty becomes a moot point.



Jay in Dallas 601XL N2630J

Do not archive

VideoFlyer(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

In a message dated 10/10/2007 , wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net writes:

 

<<<<I'm using J-Nuts and screws all the way around the top  skin>>>

 

I did the same thing.

 

Dave

N618PZ

601XL/Corvair

GLJSOJ1

Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 82
Location: Chesapeake, Virginia

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: Instrument Panel Access

HI JOHN

WHAT I DID WAS MARK WHERE THE CANOPY TOUCHED THE FORWARD TOP SKIN AND MADE A SET OF ACCESS HOLES ON BOTH SIDES JUST SMALLER SO I COULD PUT ANCHOR NUTS AND SCREWS TO HOLD IT IN PLACE.  THEN I MADE A LARGE COVER TO COVER BOTH SIDES.  IT'S NOT TOTAL ACCESS, BUT I CAN AT LEAST GET BEHIND THE PANEL



GLENN

_________________
601XL N676L FLYING PHASE I
CHESAPEAKE VA

davgray(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:30 pm Post subject: Instrument Panel Access

The tapered top center section of the cowl for the WW nose bowl has hinges

that allow access to the engine compartment from the top.  There are only

about four screws in the center that hold this to the top forward skin and

about 6 to 8 screws that hold it to the center top section of the nose bowl.

This part can be removed in under 1 minute.



 When you remove the top center section of the cowl you expose the firewall

forward to the nose bowl while the top forward skin covers the firewall

backward to the instrument panel.  With a nutplated system I can open my

aircraft from the instrument panel to the nosebowl in less than 3 minutes

and replace it in under 5 minutes in two pieces.



Total work to dimple and rivet nutplates was about 2 to 3 hours extra work

and it makes it easy access when wiring, troubleshooting, repair,

inspections or modifications.  I have removed it at least 15 times during

construction and during the first year. I did mine with # 8 floating

nutplates, #8 machine screws made flush with a dimple die in my rivet

squeezer.

The only problem I had was setting rivets in curved sections of the firewall

flange.  Pulling the nutplate down with a screw to make the nutplate conform

to the curve prior to setting the rivets made it accurate and easy.  Also

avoid crimped sections of the firewall when placing the nutplates.



Gary Ray



---

shilcom

Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 63

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:43 pm Post subject: Instrument Panel Access

Caution here Jay.  I did the silicone thing on  a Cessna once and never could get them to quite sticking.  Tried powder,  which worked the best, but every annual they were stuck tight.  Bob U.  

 [quote]   ---

Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject: Instrument Panel Access

Bob, Thanks for the heads up.  I just might have to rethink my sealing method. Maybe a thin foam tape? - Jay



do not archive



"Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom(at)mcmsys.com> wrote:



[quote]Caution here Jay.  I did the silicone thing on a Cessna once and never could get them to quite sticking.  Tried powder, which worked the best, but every annual they were stuck tight.  Bob U.

  ---

purplemoon99(at)bellsouth
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:29 pm Post subject: Instrument Panel Access

Any chance of getting a couple picts?  I'am doing a lot on the panel,and 

have to take the whole dash top off every time It's a real pain. I was 

thinking of a over lap where the cowl would be atached to a short section 

that was pop riveted to the top of the fire wall and could ovre lap inside 

the plane with screws etc.    Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM

---

tonyplane(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:54 pm Post subject: Instrument Panel Access

John,

  

 One of the BEST decisions I made was to make  the fwd top skin removable.  I used rivnuts and 6-32 SS screws.   Others have used nutplates and J clips?? etc.

  

 With the skin removed, you have access not only to  the instrument panel, but to the inside fwd firewall, rudder peddles and cables,  steering rods, brakes, etc.

  

 Also, I have removal of the top skin part of my  annual condition inspection to check wiring, and other areas under the  instrument panel that would be a real problem to inspect with the skin in  place.

  

 I also have a removable panel aft of the canopy  "line" on the top skin.  On it, I have provisions to mount 1 or 2 Garmin  GPSs (One for the pilots side and one for my spouse's side) and have also  mounted a vertical compass card..  Coming through this panel I have compass  lighting wiring and hard wiring for the GPS's  through  grommeted  holes that have a slots leading to the holes from the edge of the  panel..  When I remove the top skin, I remove this panel first and can  leave the wiring intact by passing it through the slot.

  

 You can see my instrument panel at http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/6-photo79.html   (Zenith Photo Library #79) as originally finished, but since I have added some  "Stuff" , such as a switch and a blinking light to show "Wig-wag"  taxi/landing lights, another switch to use either Garmin GPS to drive my AP, a  light to show when I have the aux fuel pump on,  a Tru-Track T&B,   and ...

  

 I really like what you can easily do with your  airplane when it is "Experimental".  If I had to drill out the top skin  rivets to gain access to the instrument panel aft areas, it would not be as much  fun and also I believe would result in a real mess to clean up.

  

 Tony Graziano

 XL/Jab3300; N493TG; 304 hrs

 ---------------

             Subject:              Instrument Panel      Access        From:              John Davis (johnd(at)data-tech.com ([email]johnd(at)data-tech.com?subject=Re:%20Instrument%20Panel%20Access&replyto=470D085D.6000304(at)data-tech.com[/email]))        Date:              [b]Wed Oct 10 - 10:30        AM[/b]  	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		  Hi All,



I'm just wrapping up my electrical work and am getting close to putting 

on the front skin over the panel area. Riveting it per the factory seems 

to be a poor choice since I wont have any easy access to the rear of the 

panel.



So it seems like the options are:



A) Install nutplates or similar and make the entire skin removable. As I 

have a QB kit their are already 90+ rivet holes that would have to be 

fitted, so thats a lot of work.



B) Install the skin permanently but add a couple of access panels on the 

top. Seems like several folks on the list are doing this. My only 

concern with this approach would be water leaking under the access 

panel. Any ideas as to how to prevent/avoid this issue ?



Your thoughts/Ideas ?



Thanks in advance,

John Davis

Burnsville, NC

601XL QB - Jab 3300

	
	


   [quote][b]

shilcom

Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 63

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:42 am Post subject: Instrument Panel Access

I'm not sure why you need anykind of  sealing.   I've never seen any seals on certified airplanes, but there  may be.  My wife sometimes applies a phrase to me that might apply  here....Don't over think it bob.  My purpose was to tighten them up  and prevent vibration and coming loose, but I don't think that is necessary  now.  I do use nylon washers on the SS screw heads.   Bob U.  

 [quote]   ---

archerm

Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 21
Location: Wichta

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:12 am Post subject: Instrument Panel Access

---

_________________
Matt
www.zodiacxl.com

archerm

Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 21
Location: Wichta

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:13 am Post subject: Instrument Panel Access

I put hatches in the forward top skin.  This has really been valuable to get 

at stuff and seems to work well.  I was a little concerned about the canopy 

interference but now that the canopy is on I haven't had a problem.  Check 

it out.



http://www.zodiacxl.com/Fwd%20Top%20Skin.htm



Matt

www.zodiacxl.com



---

_________________
Matt
www.zodiacxl.com

purplemoon99(at)bellsouth
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject: Instrument Panel Access

Very Nice!  Going to use your idea  , if you don't mind.  Lot's of room to 

work .Perfect place for fire ext.too, Did you use short self tappen   screws 

when you mounted the fire ext bracket to the spar?        Joe N101 HD 

601XL/RAM

----- Original message ----- 

From: "Matt & Jo" <archermj(at)swbell.net>

To: <zenith-list(at)matronics.com>

Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 9:07 AM

Subject: Re: Instrument Panel Access

[quote] 



 I put hatches in the forward top skin.  This has really been valuable to 

 get at stuff and seems to work well.  I was a little concerned about the 

 canopy interference but now that the canopy is on I haven't had a problem. 

 Check it out.



 http://www.zodiacxl.com/Fwd%20Top%20Skin.htm



 Matt

 www.zodiacxl.com



 ---

rge177(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:07 pm Post subject: Instrument Panel Access

Nice job Matt.  I did something similar, but didn't

hinge them, and they are a little smaller, but very

helpful getting behind the panel.  I put a pic in the

photo share.



Ron

601XL-3300



Time: 06:13:36 AM PST US

From: "Matt & Jo" <archermj(at)swbell.net>

Subject: Re: Instrument Panel Access

I put hatches in the forward top skin.  This has

really been valuable

 to get 

at stuff and seems to work well.  I was a little

concerned about the

 canopy 

interference but now that the canopy is on I haven't

had a problem.

  Check 

it out.



http://www.zodiacxl.com/Fwd%20Top%20Skin.htm

Matt

www.zodiacxl.com



---

archerm

Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 21
Location: Wichta

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:54 am Post subject: Instrument Panel Access

I ended up riveting the extinguisher bracket to the spar.  I had to drill 

some new holes in it but it worked fine.



Good Luck



Matt

www.zodiacxl.com

---

_________________
Matt
www.zodiacxl.com

Ron Lendon

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Instrument Panel Access

What kind of effect will those holes have on the integrity of the center spar?  Has anyone given that consideration or better yet, structural analysis.  Inquiring minds want to know.

_________________
Ron Lendon
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
CH 601 XLB
N601LT - Flying
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
https://sites.google.com/site/corvairenginedata/

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