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Question re. Electronic/Digital engine gages

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Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:04 pm Post subject: Question re. Electronic/Digital engine gages

While doing transition training, the plane we flew was equipped with a 

digital EMS. There was a pretty significant delay between the actual 

throttle and prop changes made with the controls and the recording and 

display of the results on the digital/graphic MP and RPM gages. By 

'significant' I mean enough so that If you were attempting to use the 

gages in real time to go from full throttle /RPM to cruise settings I 

would consistently 'overshoot' the desired setting because of the 'lag' 

in these instruments. For small adjustments the 'lag' was not as big an 

issue.  After 8.1 hours, I got a little better as estimating the 

settings and then waiting for the gages to 'catch-up' but I still found 

it annoying and distracting.

Mike S. said that ALL EFIS, EMS systems he has flown have the same issue 

and it's one of the reasons he prefers steam gages. I'm not flying yet 

so I don't know what I'll get with my OP's but I hadn't anticipated the 

delay/lag that it looks like I'll probably have.



So for those of you flying, with the Cheltons , GRT's, AFS.



Inquiring minds want to know.

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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:29 pm Post subject: Question re. Electronic/Digital engine gages

I would guess that the problem is in the software driving the system.  

Your GPS also has the info lag .... due to all the calculations that the 

software has to make.  It all takes time, and for the most part the 

manufacturers aren't using the highest speed processors.  Sigh ..... not 

many software folks write in machine language anymore.  Progress???  Not 

in my book! 

Linn

do not archive



Deems Davis wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 While doing transition training, the plane we flew was equipped with a 

 digital EMS. There was a pretty significant delay between the actual 

 throttle and prop changes made with the controls and the recording and 

 display of the results on the digital/graphic MP and RPM gages. By 

 'significant' I mean enough so that If you were attempting to use the 

 gages in real time to go from full throttle /RPM to cruise settings I 

 would consistently 'overshoot' the desired setting because of the 

 'lag' in these instruments. For small adjustments the 'lag' was not as 

 big an issue.  After 8.1 hours, I got a little better as estimating 

 the settings and then waiting for the gages to 'catch-up' but I still 

 found it annoying and distracting.

 Mike S. said that ALL EFIS, EMS systems he has flown have the same 

 issue and it's one of the reasons he prefers steam gages. I'm not 

 flying yet so I don't know what I'll get with my OP's but I hadn't 

 anticipated the delay/lag that it looks like I'll probably have.



 So for those of you flying, with the Cheltons , GRT's, AFS.



 Inquiring minds want to know.

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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coop85(at)cableone.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject: Question re. Electronic/Digital engine gages

In the 200 hours I have on my Grand Rapids EIS I haven't detected any

noticeable lag or delay.



Marcus



--

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Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:56 pm Post subject: Question re. Electronic/Digital engine gages

PS: Yes though, 220RV really was tough to fly with precision

as far as making the adjustments come out right to the

prop/MP.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Deems Davis wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 While doing transition training, the plane we flew was equipped with a 

 digital EMS. There was a pretty significant delay between the actual 

 throttle and prop changes made with the controls and the recording and 

 display of the results on the digital/graphic MP and RPM gages. By 

 'significant' I mean enough so that If you were attempting to use the 

 gages in real time to go from full throttle /RPM to cruise settings I 

 would consistently 'overshoot' the desired setting because of the 'lag' 

 in these instruments. For small adjustments the 'lag' was not as big an 

 issue.  After 8.1 hours, I got a little better as estimating the 

 settings and then waiting for the gages to 'catch-up' but I still found 

 it annoying and distracting.

 Mike S. said that ALL EFIS, EMS systems he has flown have the same issue 

 and it's one of the reasons he prefers steam gages. I'm not flying yet 

 so I don't know what I'll get with my OP's but I hadn't anticipated the 

 delay/lag that it looks like I'll probably have.

 

 So for those of you flying, with the Cheltons , GRT's, AFS.

 

 Inquiring minds want to know.

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:57 pm Post subject: Question re. Electronic/Digital engine gages

I notice no such lag with the EIS6000 and Chelton.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Deems Davis wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 While doing transition training, the plane we flew was equipped with a 

 digital EMS. There was a pretty significant delay between the actual 

 throttle and prop changes made with the controls and the recording and 

 display of the results on the digital/graphic MP and RPM gages. By 

 'significant' I mean enough so that If you were attempting to use the 

 gages in real time to go from full throttle /RPM to cruise settings I 

 would consistently 'overshoot' the desired setting because of the 'lag' 

 in these instruments. For small adjustments the 'lag' was not as big an 

 issue.  After 8.1 hours, I got a little better as estimating the 

 settings and then waiting for the gages to 'catch-up' but I still found 

 it annoying and distracting.

 Mike S. said that ALL EFIS, EMS systems he has flown have the same issue 

 and it's one of the reasons he prefers steam gages. I'm not flying yet 

 so I don't know what I'll get with my OP's but I hadn't anticipated the 

 delay/lag that it looks like I'll probably have.

 

 So for those of you flying, with the Cheltons , GRT's, AFS.

 

 Inquiring minds want to know.

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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GenGrumpy(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:24 pm Post subject: Question re. Electronic/Digital engine gages

I echo Tim.

  

 Have not seen a problem with my GRT EIS nor the display on my Cheltons  either.

  

 Grumpy

 N184JM

  

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

  

 In a message dated 10/14/2007 9:07:27 P.M. Central Standard Time,  Tim(at)MyRV10.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>



I notice    no such lag with the EIS6000 and Chelton.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD -    Flying

do not archive

Deems Davis wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   -->    RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>

    

 While doing transition training, the plane we flew was equipped with    a 

 digital EMS. There was a pretty significant delay between the    actual 

 throttle and prop changes made with the controls and the    recording and 

 display of the results on the digital/graphic MP and    RPM gages. By 

 'significant' I mean enough so that If you were    attempting to use the 

 gages in real time to go from full throttle    /RPM to cruise settings I 

 would consistently 'overshoot' the desired    setting because of the 'lag' 

 in these instruments. For small    adjustments the 'lag' was not as big an 

 issue.  After 8.1 hours,    I got a little better as estimating the 

 settings and then waiting for    the gages to 'catch-up' but I still found 

 it annoying and    distracting.

 Mike S. said that ALL EFIS, EMS systems he has flown have    the same issue 

 and it's one of the reasons he prefers steam gages.    I'm not flying yet 

 so I don't know what I'll get with my OP's but I    hadn't anticipated the 

 delay/lag that it looks like I'll probably    have.

 

 So for those of you flying, with the Cheltons , GRT's,    AFS.

 

 Inquiring minds want to know.

    es  Day       -->                - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

bsp;    -->  ======================
	




	


 

  



See what's new [quote][b]

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ScooterF15

Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 136

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:12 pm Post subject: Question re. Electronic/Digital engine gages

I was initially surprised at the latency in the RPM while doing my  transition training with Mike S. as well. However, I have the same AFS  AF-2500 engine monitor in my RV-10 and I have no problem accurately setting RPM  and MAP with it (I really like the system as a whole). I suppose it would  be nice to get a more instantaneous reading, but like anything, you  quickly learn to compensate and it becomes a non-issue. For me, the  benefits of my AF-2500 (displays everything in one place, light weight, takes up  very little panel space, audio warnings etc.) far out weighs a few millisecond  delay in displayed RPM.

  

 Just to add some insight: I would guess that the delay comes  from filtering or taking a running average of the signals coming from  the tachometer transducer. There is always lag created in this process,  regardless of the size of the computer crunching the numbers.  There  is a trade off between displaying a smooth signal and the amount time delay. You  can shorten the delay, but the result is a more erratic display. The amount of  noise in the signal coming from the transducer also plays a part. Maybe the guys  at AFS can let us know why they chose the particular set up they currently  have?

  

 -Jim

 40134

  

  Jim "Scooter"  McGrew

http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew



  

 In a message dated 10/13/2007 4:06:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  deemsdavis(at)cox.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis    <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>



While doing transition training, the plane    we flew was equipped with a 

digital EMS. There was a pretty significant    delay between the actual 

throttle and prop changes made with the controls    and the recording and 

display of the results on the digital/graphic MP and    RPM gages. By 

'significant' I mean enough so that If you were attempting    to use the 

gages in real time to go from full throttle /RPM to cruise    settings I 

would consistently 'overshoot' the desired setting because of    the 'lag' 

in these instruments. For small adjustments the 'lag' was not as    big an 

issue.  After 8.1 hours, I got a little better as estimating    the 

settings and then waiting for the gages to 'catch-up' but I still    found 

it annoying and distracting.

Mike S. said that ALL EFIS, EMS    systems he has flown have the same issue 

and it's one of the reasons he    prefers steam gages. I'm not flying yet 

so I don't know what I'll get with    my OP's but I hadn't anticipated the 

delay/lag that it looks like I'll    probably have.



So for those of you flying, with the Cheltons , GRT's,    AFS.



Inquiring minds want to    es  Day       -->                - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

bsp;    -->  ======================

	


 



  

 [url=http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew][/url] 



See what's new at .

  [quote][b]

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RobHickman(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: Question re. Electronic/Digital engine gages

The latest software on  the AF-2500 does speed up the response time.

  

 The new AF-3400 and AF-3500 are much faster.

  

  

 Rob Hickman

 Advanced Flight Systems



  [quote][b]

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