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Ethanol

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huronflyer

Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 18

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:11 am Post subject: Ethanol

Hi,



The ethanol issue is really important.



Here in Ontario Canada, the provincial government has mandated ethanol in 

all gasoline, even though COPA has appealed on behalf of  amateur builts and 

certified planes that are allowed to use mo-gas. The federal government 

(Transport Canada) does not permit  gas containing ethanol to be used in 

aircraft engines. They really don't give a darn about UL planes other than 

statistics provided we conform to airborne rules.



So what does a guy do? I fly with mo-gas (ethanol approx. 10%). I try to 

keep it as fresh as possible and get it as I need it.



If I move to a Kolb and either a 447 or 503 Rotax it will be a bigger issue 

for me, the government notwithstanding, rather my neck.



Here the street word from sources inside Shell Canada: Shell "V-Power" 

(premium) does not have ethanol, rather they make their quota by increasing 

the volumn in the low and mid range fuel. Hopefully that will continue for 

awhile. Its an hour round trip for me to get it so I run ESSO/EXXON with the 

ethanol*.

I guess the Rotax dealers here are warning people about ethanol and 

especially with fiberglass tanks (which the ethanol eats)...



Bad gas has taken a couple of people I know in a certified and UL. So be 

careful and fly safe.



Thanks for the separation and funnel tests



Dave



PS * I know people tell me its a waste to use high test, alI in fact 

increasing my ethanol content? All mt engines seem to run better with it.



DO NOT ARCHIVE

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jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:47 am Post subject: Ethanol

Guys and Gals, I recently went through Eric Tucker's engine classes at Lockwood Aviation. I didn't count how many times Eric stressed this point, do NOT use paper element fuel filters, but it was at least once per day. As he explained it, and as Henry's tests showed, the water drops out of solution as temperatures change. If you don't catch it and the water coats the paper element, the element becomes impermeable to gas, essentially cutting off the fuel flow just as effectively as turning off the fuel valve. Without the explanation, the warning is also in the Rotax installation manuals, too. 

Eric also mentioned that up to 5% ethanol is not a problem as far as the engine is concerned.



Rick



On 10/16/07,  drherron(at)sympatico.ca (drherron(at)sympatico.ca) <drherron(at)sympatico.ca (drherron(at)sympatico.ca)> wrote:[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: <drherron(at)sympatico.ca (drherron(at)sympatico.ca)>



Hi,



The ethanol issue is really important.



Here in Ontario Canada, the provincial government has mandated ethanol in 

all gasoline, even though COPA has appealed on behalf of  amateur builts and

certified planes that are allowed to use mo-gas. The federal government

(Transport Canada) does not permit  gas containing ethanol to be used in 

aircraft engines. They really don't give a darn about UL planes other than

statistics provided we conform to airborne rules.



So what does a guy do? I fly with mo-gas (ethanol approx. 10%). I try to

keep it as fresh as possible and get it as I need it. 



If I move to a Kolb and either a 447 or 503 Rotax it will be a bigger issue

for me, the government notwithstanding, rather my neck.



Here the street word from sources inside Shell Canada: Shell "V-Power" 

(premium) does not have ethanol, rather they make their quota by increasing

the volumn in the low and mid range fuel. Hopefully that will continue for

awhile. Its an hour round trip for me to get it so I run ESSO/EXXON with the 

ethanol*.

I guess the Rotax dealers here are warning people about ethanol and

especially with fiberglass tanks (which the ethanol eats)...



Bad gas has taken a couple of people I know in a certified and UL. So be 

careful and fly safe.



Thanks for the separation and funnel tests



Dave



PS * I know people tell me its a waste to use high test, alI in fact

increasing my ethanol content? All mt engines seem to run better with it.  [quote][b]

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jb92563

Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 314
Location: Southern California

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject: Ethanol eats Fiberglass tanks?

Hi Dave,



Ethanol in my fuel is going to destroy my fiberglass tank?



Do you know what percentage it becomes a problem at?



I have a fairly thin F-glass fuel tank on my Kolb.



I wonder if I can coat it with something to make it ethanol proof.



I can't have fiberglass resin going through my engine, need to rethink the fuel filter.

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Ray

Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)
Moni MotorGlider
Schreder HP-11 Glider
Grob 109 Motorglider

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henry.voris

Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 116
Location: Pueo Field, Kula, Maui

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:04 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol

Dave,



I think the best we can do about the fuel is follow "best practices"...



I buy fuel from a gas station that sells a lot of fuel.



I buy it right before I fly.



At the end of a days flying I empty the tank, gascolator and float chamber.



I feed the old gas to my truck and motorcycle, they both seem to like the 50:1 mix..



I have installed a gascolator.



In Hawaii all gas has 10% ethanol, so we gain nothing by switching brands. If you have a fuel that questionable as to if it has ethanol in it or not... there is a simple test for ethanol called the "olive jar test". The how-to is covered in the CPS catalog. If you can't find it, eMail me off list and I'll send you the procedure.



You said... "I know people tell me its a waste to use high test, alI in fact increasing my ethanol content? All mt engines seem to run better with it."



I don't know if high test has more ethanol or not. I do know that fuel with higher ethanol content can absorb more water before suffering phase separation. So the ROTAX recommended 5% is more dangerous for phase separation than a 10% mix or above. 



Rick,



Thanks for the word on paper filters. Very important...



Ray,



I saw a suggestion that you check the "canard aviators at yahoo" for solutions to the ethanol/fiberglass problem.



I know that here, it has been giving the fishing boats with fiberglass tanks fits.

Aloha,

Henry

FireFly Five-Charlie-Bravo

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Henry
Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo

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