Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - More starting problems

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

More starting problems

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:31 pm Post subject: More starting problems

Now that I've solved my cold starting problems with my 912UL, I've discovered another annoying issue. It doesn't want to start warm. That is, if I shut the engine down after a flight, it starts right up if I crank within a couple of minutes. If I let it cool down more then that, then it won't start until I let it cool down all the way (takes a couple of hours). It's not a situation that I find myself very often but it bit me on two recent cross country flights where I loitered too much during a fuel stop. When it happens, I can crank the battery dry and it won't get a single pop from the ignition regardless of throttle or choke position (the only two inputs I have). Any ideas?

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

_________________
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)

wingsdown(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:48 pm Post subject: More starting problems

Sounds like heat soak vapor lock.



Rick



--

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:08 pm Post subject: Re: More starting problems

OK. Why does it happen? How do I fix it?



 	  Quote: 	
		  Sounds like heat soak vapor lock.

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

_________________
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)

john(at)leptron.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:19 pm Post subject: More starting problems

I agree to the heat soak problem. When my fox started doing that I did two

things, one I opened the oil access door any time I landed knowing I was

going to leave. 2 I installed an electric fuel "primer" pump under my seat.

I have had no problems with it since.

John Oakley



--

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:21 am Post subject: Re: More starting problems

Is this an indication that my motor is getting too hot? It was only one landing after a long descent so I wouldn't have thought that it was too hot. 



Can you tell me more about your fuel primer pump? I've noticed you mentioning your fuel primer before but I figured you where talking about a simple plunger style manual pump. Does the primer pump run all the time?



 	  Quote: 	
		  I agree to the heat soak problem. When my fox started doing that I did two things, one I opened the oil access door any time I landed knowing I was going to leave. 2 I installed an electric fuel "primer" pump under my seat. I have had no problems with it since.

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

_________________
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:39 am Post subject: More starting problems

Luis-

What I normally do on my Jabiru engine, (with only one carb to worry  

about) is to shut off the main fuel valve when I'm about 30 seconds  

away from shutting the engine down, like for parking after a landing  

and taxi, etc., then when the engine is shut down, the fuel level in  

the bowl is reduced, and a subsequent hot start is immediate.  

Somebody gave me this tip, and it works perfectly. Just something you  

might try.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/420+ hrs

do not archive



On Oct 16, 2007, at 8:21 AM, wingnut wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Is this an indication that my motor is getting too hot? It was only  

 one landing after a long descent so I wouldn't have thought that it  

 was too hot.



 Can you tell me more about your fuel primer pump? I've noticed you  

 mentioning your fuel primer before but I figured you where talking  

 about a simple plunger style manual pump. Does the primer pump run  

 all the time?

> I agree to the heat soak problem. When my fox started doing that I  

> did two things, one I opened the oil access door any time I landed  

> knowing I was going to leave. 2 I installed an electric fuel  

> "primer" pump under my seat. I have had no problems with it since.

 --------

 Luis Rodriguez

 Model IV 1200

 Rotax 912UL

 Flying Weekly

 Laurens, SC (34A)

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: More starting problems

Thanks for the tip Lynn. That sounds like an easy thing to try. 



I was just looking through the Rotax operators manual and I noticed something interesting. The diagram for the fuel system shows the fuel lines going from the pump to a four way splitter. Two lines for the carbs one for the fuel pressure gage (which I don't have) and a fourth line returning to the tank. According to the caption,  the purpose for this fourth line is to prevent 'vapour lock'. I'm not entirely sure that my fuel system has such a thing. Would that be unusual? Does everyone else have this installed?



I don't really understand how such a system would work. If the output of the fuel pump is split between the fuel tank and the carbs then wouldn't this dump all the fuel pressure out the vent lines in the tank?

[quote]What I normally do on my Jabiru engine, (with only one carb to worry about) is to shut off the main fuel valve when I'm about 30 seconds 

away from shutting the engine down, like for parking after a landing 

and taxi, etc., then when the engine is shut down, the fuel level in 

the bowl is reduced, and a subsequent hot start is immediate. 

Somebody gave me this tip, and it works perfectly. Just something you

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

_________________
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)

pwmac(at)sisna.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:55 pm Post subject: More starting problems

The 4th connection is for the return line to the tank and it has a 

small orifice in a fitting so the flow is small. It does prevent 

vapor lock. Its fairly common to use the return but many guys skip it.

Paul

=================



At 03:10 PM 10/16/2007, you wrote:

[quote]



Thanks for the tip Lynn. That sounds like an easy thing to try.



I was just looking through the Rotax operators manual and I noticed 

something interesting. The diagram for the fuel system shows the 

fuel lines going from the pump to a four way splitter. Two lines for 

the carbs one for the fuel pressure gage (which I don't have) and a 

fourth line returning to the tank. According to the caption,  the 

purpose for this fourth line is to prevent 'vapour lock'. I'm not 

entirely sure that my fuel system has such a thing. Would that be 

unusual? Does everyone else have this installed?



I don't really understand how such a system would work. If the 

output of the fuel pump is split between the fuel tank and the carbs 

then wouldn't this dump all the fuel pressure out the vent lines in the tank?

 	  Quote: 	
		  What I normally do on my Jabiru engine, (with only one carb 

to worry about) is to shut off the main fuel valve when I'm about 30 seconds

away from shutting the engine down, like for parking after a landing

and taxi, etc., then when the engine is shut down, the fuel level in

the bowl is reduced, and a subsequent hot start is immediate.

Somebody gave me this tip, and it works perfectly. Just something you



--------

Luis Rodriguez

Model IV 1200

Rotax 912UL

Flying Weekly

Laurens, SC (34A)





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140319#140319

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

l.morris(at)tx.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:13 am Post subject: More starting problems

Also might try pushing your throttle full open right after you pull your mixture back. Leon Morris/classic 4/60%/ Flower Mound,TX

---- Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Luis-

 What I normally do on my Jabiru engine, (with only one carb to worry  

 about) is to shut off the main fuel valve when I'm about 30 seconds  

 away from shutting the engine down, like for parking after a landing  

 and taxi, etc., then when the engine is shut down, the fuel level in  

 the bowl is reduced, and a subsequent hot start is immediate.  

 Somebody gave me this tip, and it works perfectly. Just something you  

 might try.

 

 Lynn Matteson

 Grass Lake, Michigan

 Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

 flying w/420+ hrs

 do not archive

 

 On Oct 16, 2007, at 8:21 AM, wingnut wrote:

 

 > 

 >

 > Is this an indication that my motor is getting too hot? It was only  

 > one landing after a long descent so I wouldn't have thought that it  

 > was too hot.

 >

 > Can you tell me more about your fuel primer pump? I've noticed you  

 > mentioning your fuel primer before but I figured you where talking  

 > about a simple plunger style manual pump. Does the primer pump run  

 > all the time?

 >

 >

 >> I agree to the heat soak problem. When my fox started doing that I  

 >> did two things, one I opened the oil access door any time I landed  

 >> knowing I was going to leave. 2 I installed an electric fuel  

 >> "primer" pump under my seat. I have had no problems with it since.

 >

 >

 > --------

 > Luis Rodriguez

 > Model IV 1200

 > Rotax 912UL

 > Flying Weekly

 > Laurens, SC (34A)

 >

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum