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Larger Brake

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zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:17 pm Post subject: Larger Brake

My Brake design is made to handle material up to 52" after that the

forces are too great and undesired deflection in the bends would appear.

If you have a need for a larger brake then I would suggest Larry

McFarlane's brake plans. For a cost of $35.00 he will send a very nice

set of plans for construction of a 96" brake, I have this brake as well

built from his plans and expanded to 10'. 



Best and most economical route is to build the 52" version and gather up

all the material for longer bends and go visit the guy in the EAA

chapter that has that Tool Heaven Garage/Hanger. One afternoon is all

you should need of his 8' brake for your project.



Mark Townsend  Alma, Ontario

Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started

www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com

--

river1

Joined: 07 Sep 2007
Posts: 28

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: Larger Brake

Thanks Mark ; I know that when Larry post he includes a link , anyone reading this want to throw the link please thx.                        Founded the adress  allready .

skyguynca

Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 128

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:32 pm Post subject: Larger Brake

I built the plans from 601.com David's brake.......made mine 10ft and it 

works great. I bent up some spars for a biplane the other day from 2024t3 

.040 10ft long and it did it no problem. I used the 10ft 4x4 angle 1/4in 

thick.



David Mikesell

230 Theresa Drive, #6

Cloverdale, CA 95425

209-224-4485

skyguynca(at)skyguynca.com

www.skyguynca.com

---

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Larger Brake

Dave's brake looks excellent for any length spar you want. The only problem with that brake is that's proabably pushing it a bit to do a deep WIDE skin of say .025. Mine will, but it will only do a piece of .040 up to about 6' before it's pushing it but it's great for skins. I should draw up and post some plans of my brake. Personally, I thought designing and building a suitable bending brake on the cheap was one of the hardest parts of building a plane. There's actually a lot involved in making what would seem to be a simple bend in aluminum.



 	  skyguynca wrote: 	
		  I built the plans from 601.com David's brake.......made mine 10ft and it 

works great. I bent up some spars for a biplane the other day from 2024t3 

.040 10ft long and it did it no problem. I used the 10ft 4x4 angle 1/4in 

thick.



David Mikesell

230 Theresa Drive, #6

Cloverdale, CA 95425

209-224-4485

skyguynca(at)skyguynca.com

www.skyguynca.com

---

bill_dom(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:52 am Post subject: Larger Brake

I have an 8' wooden bending brake of my own design and like Dave's brake, I couldn't do deep skins. My solution was to add a reinforced steel clamp that I think can also work on Dave's brake. Here is a picture of my brake with the steel clamp:



http://williamdominguez.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album10&id=115_1531_IMG_Large



I use C clamps on each side (not shown on the picture) of the skin, this limits the length to 7', but enough for skins. Here is another picture of the brake but this time it is bending a skin flange without using the steel clamps, in this one I use C clamps all along the brake:



http://williamdominguez.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album06&id=115_1511_IMG_Large



I made the aileron and flap middle of the skin bends using the steel clamp and it worked well. For flanges I still use the method shown in the second picture. A clamp like this would not be difficult to adapt to a steel brake  like Dave's

William Dominguez

Zodiac 601 XL Plans

Miami Florida



ashontz <ashontz(at)nbme.org> wrote:[quote] --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz" 



Dave's brake looks excellent for any length spar you want. The only problem with that brake is that it won't do a deep skin. Mine will, but it will only do a piece of .040 up to about 6' before it's pushing it. I should draw up and post some plans of my brake. Personally, I thought designing and building a suitable bending brake on the cheap was one of the hardest parts of building a plane. There's actually a lot involved in making what would seem to be a simple bend in aluminum.

skyguynca wrote:

[quote] I built the plans from 601.com David's brake.......made mine 10ft and it 

 works great. I bent up some spars for a biplane [quote][b]

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:28 am Post subject: Re: Larger Brake

It's all about machanics. Even though it's a wooden bending brake, with that reinforcing bar, it actually looks like it would work well.



[quote="bill_dom(at)yahoo.com"]I have an 8' wooden bending brake of my own design and like Dave's brake, I couldn't do deep skins. My solution was to add a reinforced steel clamp that I think can also work on Dave's brake. Here is a picture of my brake with the steel clamp:



http://williamdominguez.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album10&id=115_1531_IMG_Large



I use C clamps on each side (not shown on the picture) of the skin, this limits the length to 7', but enough for skins. Here is another picture of the brake but this time it is bending a skin flange without using the steel clamps, in this one I use C clamps all along the brake:



http://williamdominguez.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album06&id=115_1511_IMG_Large



I made the aileron and flap middle of the skin bends using the steel clamp and it worked well. For flanges I still use the method shown in the second picture. A clamp like this would not be difficult to adapt to a steel brake  like Dave's

William Dominguez

Zodiac 601 XL Plans

Miami Florida



ashontz <ashontz> wrote:[quote] --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz" 



Dave's brake looks excellent for any length spar you want. The only problem with that brake is that it won't do a deep skin. Mine will, but it will only do a piece of .040 up to about 6' before it's pushing it. I should draw up and post some plans of my brake. Personally, I thought designing and building a suitable bending brake on the cheap was one of the hardest parts of building a plane. There's actually a lot involved in making what would seem to be a simple bend in aluminum.

skyguynca wrote:

[quote] I built the plans from 601.com David's brake.......made mine 10ft and it 

 works great. I bent up some spars for a biplane  	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

TxDave

Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 168
Location: Temple, TX

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: Larger Brake

Excuse me. If you use a little of the gray matter God put between your ears, you can bend ANYTHING you'll need for the 601XL with my brake. 



"Deep skins"??? I'm guessing that means control surface skins like flaps and ailerons. They are not a problem (see attached photos). 



Folks...if you have any questions about the free brake plans I have been happily providing for over a year now, just ask me. Don't rely on someone else's assumptions. 



Dave Clay

Temple, TX

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sky_ranger161

Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 91

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:26 am Post subject: Larger Brake

I'm with Dave on this one. I've bent every piece of metal on my airplane with the simple, effective, inexpensive brake he designed and my standards are pretty high. Granted, sometimes it takes an extra piece of angle or "c" clamp or two, but if you can't get the results you're looking for, you ain't using your noodle enough. 

   

  For the scratchbuilder, I really view a cost-effective, functional bending brake as a "deal breaker." If you don't have one, it ain't gonna happen. There are a actually a few good designs out there. Choose the one that works for you. I chose to experiment with Dave's design and have found it to be more than adequate for bending anything on the XL. If you use it in conjunction with Larry Winger's Excel Bend Line Spreadsheet, you're bending like the big boys.

   

  Personally, I'd like to thank both of these guys for sharing their innovative ideas with this list at no charge  to any of us. After all, if I could have come up with something better myself, then I wouldn't have needed their ideas in the first place, huh?

   

  Keep drillin' fellas

   

   

  Debo Cox

  Nags Head, NC

  www.mykitlog.com/debo

   

  do not archive

 [quote][b]

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:44 am Post subject: Re: Larger Brake

Hey, sorry, looks like it works well then. All I know is my brake. even made out of the same heavy steel, would not make a straight enough bend for my tastes until I put the tensioner bar on the top clamp piece. Obviously you can bend a deep wide skin and that's good. I'm just surprised it can do it without the tensioner. Without the tensioner on mine, I noticed a slight banana shape to the part. If you can get away without the tensioner for some reason that's great, I'm honestly surprised it doesn't need one considering the distance between the clamp bolts.



 	  TxDave wrote: 	
		  Excuse me. If you use a little of the gray matter God put between your ears, you can bend ANYTHING you'll need for the 601XL with my brake. 



"Deep skins"??? I'm guessing that means control surface skins like flaps and ailerons. They are not a problem (see attached photos). 



Folks...if you have any questions about the free brake plans I have been happily providing for over a year now, just ask me. Don't rely on someone else's assumptions. 



Dave Clay

Temple, TX

bill_dom(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:55 am Post subject: Larger Brake

Ok Dave relax, me and I think Andy got your point. Getting your blood boiling (seems like it based on how you answered) over this might be hazardous for your health . We all agree that your brake is the best and most practical for our purpose. The reason I didn't build your brake is because yours came out after I build mine.



William Dominguez

Zodiac 601XL Plans

Miami Florida

TxDave <dclaytx2(at)HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:[quote] --> Zenith-List message posted by: "TxDave" 



Excuse me. If you use a little of the gray matter God put between your ears, you can bend ANYTHING you'll need for the 601XL with my brake. 



"Deep skins"??? I'm guessing that means control surface skins like flaps and ailerons. They are not a problem (see attached photos). 



Folks...if you have any questions about the free [quote][b]

TxDave

Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 168
Location: Temple, TX

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:23 am Post subject: Re: Larger Brake

OK, I'll chill out, Bill. Thanks for your concern about my health. I just wanted to make sure folks who might be considering building from plans are getting the straight poop on my brake. Andy's a good guy who frequently takes the time to be an active member of this group. Nothing wrong with stimulating a good discussion.



For anyone interested in building my brake, please be sure to get the latest version of the plans from my website. I've included some bending tips. Also, I would recommend you use the $6.00 stainless steel hinges available from Air Parts, Inc. and steel cherry rivets (MSP-54) from Aircraft Spruce.



Later,

Dave Clay

Temple, TX

http://www.daves601xl.com

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:48 am Post subject: Re: Larger Brake

Dave, how do you keep the clamp from deflecting on a deep skin that's rather wide? I'm using the same type of angle iron (1/4" thick by 3.5" by 3.5") and without my tensioner in the middle, the clamp nose (is that what it's called) deflects a bit. Maybe the way you have it laying flat versus mine inverted with the two edges down like an upside down V tends to deflect more? I don't know? I'm just curious. As beefy as those angle irons are, over an 8' span between clamp points is still a lot of pressure pushing in. Granted, the largest full width skin is the elevator, and in general the skins are .025 and less. Even so, it only takes a millimeter difference in the middle vs the ends to eff up your day. 



For bending brakes that really only require hand tools to make though, I think they're both good.



 	  TxDave wrote: 	
		  OK, I'll chill out, Bill. Thanks for your concern about my health. I just wanted to make sure folks who might be considering building from plans are getting the straight poop on my brake. Andy's a good guy who frequently takes the time to be an active member of this group. Nothing wrong with stimulating a good discussion.



For anyone interested in building my brake, please be sure to get the latest version of the plans from my website. I've included some bending tips. Also, I would recommend you use the $6.00 stainless steel hinges available from Air Parts, Inc. and steel cherry rivets (MSP-54) from Aircraft Spruce.



Later,

Dave Clay

Temple, TX

http://www.daves601xl.com

graeme(at)coletoolcentre.
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:10 pm Post subject: Larger Brake

The secret of the brake as I see it is there is a stainless steel hinge 

which runs the whole length of the brake.

thus eliminating the flex we get in a standard brake.

I also have a brake which is hinged at either end but if I was starting now 

I would build this brake.



Graemecns



---

TxDave

Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 168
Location: Temple, TX

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:19 pm Post subject: Re: Larger Brake

Hey Andy,



The top piece of angle (I call it the top plate) is flat against the aluminum. I have pretty large bolts running through my table and a 1x4 board attached under my table for strength. I'm no engineer...so I don't have a technical explanation. It just works, that's all I know.



Dave

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:26 am Post subject: Re: Larger Brake

 	  TxDave wrote: 	
		  Hey Andy,



The top piece of angle (I call it the top plate) is flat against the aluminum. I have pretty large bolts running through my table and a 1x4 board attached under my table for strength. I'm no engineer...so I don't have a technical explanation. It just works, that's all I know.



Dave 	




As I see it, your brake is excellent for spars for sure. The really difficult part is when you have to have clamp points for the bolts only at the ends of the top plate (like when doing a wide deep skin). No different than my brake when doing a piece like that. You really have to keep that top plate from flexing. As far as the bottom plate (the bender), your brake has an advanage there in that it's supported along the entire length where as mine is designed like Larry's brake, pivots on the ends. That being the case I need a tensioner on the bottom as well as the top, but it works well. I'm just wondering about the mechanics of the top plate on yours and why it manages to stay put even though for a wide deep skin it's only bolts at the ends with a good 7 foot stretch between clamp points.



In addition to my tensioner bars I've considered going back and adding another welded plate inside of the upside down V as additional support, same with the bending tongue. It works for now, but as I use it I see better ways to design it. A welded plate would add a lot more reinforcing to keep the angles from warping as pressure is applied. A tube (triangular tube in this case) is a lot stronger than an angle. If you put a micrometer on mine when under force you'd probably see the dimension between the two angle legs decrease in the middle by a millimeter or two. Pretty amazing that even steel will flex that much when bending a piece of aluminum, but the process of making a proper bend in aluminum is deceptively more complicated that it would first appear.

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