Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - plexiglass bond to fiberglass

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

plexiglass bond to fiberglass

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

eagerlee

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 35

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:54 pm Post subject: plexiglass bond to fiberglass

I got some Weld On - 10 and replicated my previous experiment with structural epoxy as a bonding agent for the RV-10 windows. Again i scuffed a test block of plexi and fiberglass, wiped clean with alcohol, glued and clamped the pieces, let the glue cure for 24 hours. The difference was day and night.  When I hit the epoxy test piece with a ball peen hammer to provide a sheer force, the bond between the Plexiglas and epoxy failed by a clean separation with a moderate blow of the hammer.  I could not get the bond between the plexiglas and the Weld On to fail using severe blows from the same hammer: the plexiglas itself failed first.  I'm going to use the weld on to fasten my windows and then fill the edge gaps with a structural epoxy and do an overlay of glass fiber mat to prevent the paint from cracking.  One last comment: the Weld On was mixed by an eyeball estimate of 13 to 1 ratio and had a date stamped on the carton  Jul '06.  I assume that precision ratio and current material would yield a stronger bond.

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:13 pm Post subject: plexiglass bond to fiberglass

Thanks for taking the time to actually do the testing. Data points

are hard to come by sometimes, and when builders like you go out

of their way to test something, it helps us all learn.  Glad to

hear I won't have to worry about the bond failing. 



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

eagerlee wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I got some Weld On - 10 and replicated my previous experiment with

 structural epoxy as a bonding agent for the RV-10 windows. Again i

 scuffed a test block of plexi and fiberglass, wiped clean with

 alcohol, glued and clamped the pieces, let the glue cure for 24

 hours. The difference was day and night.  When I hit the epoxy test

 piece with a ball peen hammer to provide a sheer force, the bond

 between the Plexiglas and epoxy failed by a clean separation with a

 moderate blow of the hammer.  I could not get the bond between the

 plexiglas and the Weld On to fail using severe blows from the same

 hammer: the plexiglas itself failed first.  I'm going to use the weld

 on to fasten my windows and then fill the edge gaps with a structural

 epoxy and do an overlay of glass fiber mat to prevent the paint from

 cracking.  One last comment: the Weld On was mixed by an eyeball

 estimate of 13 to 1 ratio and had a date stamped on the carton  Jul

 '06.  I assume that precision ratio and current mat! erial would

 yield a stronger bond.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141889#141889

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

Mike Whisky

Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 336
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: plexiglass bond to fiberglass

Thanks, that clarifies my initial question now all I'll need is to get some Weld-On 10 to Europe somehow.



Michael

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

_________________
RV-10 builder (flying)
#511

n223rv(at)wolflakeairport
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:13 am Post subject: plexiglass bond to fiberglass

Not to start a mess here.....  I agree Weld On-10 holds the windows better

than epoxy.  But after having using Weld On-10 and having many issues with

it (like it cracks the windows, even under light pressure clamping,

flashes over very fast, gets very stringy, and is very hard to clean up),

I am not going to use it on my RV-10.  We had to re-install 2 windows (one

being the 1/4" windshield) on my friends RV-10 do to cracks emminating

from the adhesive joints.



I spoke with Jeff at AirPlastics (they make the RV-10 window for Van's). 

He DOES NOT recommend using Weld On-10 as it is too aggressive of an

adhesive and he said he has heard of many issues from it.  He recommended

other adhesives such as Sika Flex.  When we replaced his windshield, we

used the Sika Flex.  There is a black primer you put down, then the caulk

type adhesive.  It worked great, was much easier to use, and the total

cost was about the same as the 5 bottles of Weld On 10.  I used Sika Flex

292UV black along with Sika 209 primer.



I did not compare it side by side with Weld On-10 like eagerlee.  That

would be a nice comparison.  But I did play with it on our old windshield

and it is very strong.



Just my $0.02 cents worth, after using them both to install windows....



-Mike Kraus

2032 RV-4 Flying

40013 RV-10 FWF/Wiring



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I got some Weld On - 10 and replicated my previous experiment with

 structural epoxy as a bonding agent for the RV-10 windows. Again i scuffed

 a test block of plexi and fiberglass, wiped clean with alcohol, glued and

 clamped the pieces, let the glue cure for 24 hours. The difference was day

 and night.  When I hit the epoxy test piece with a ball peen hammer to

 provide a sheer force, the bond between the Plexiglas and epoxy failed by

 a clean separation with a moderate blow of the hammer.  I could not get

 the bond between the plexiglas and the Weld On to fail using severe blows

 from the same hammer: the plexiglas itself failed first.  I'm going to use

 the weld on to fasten my windows and then fill the edge gaps with a

 structural epoxy and do an overlay of glass fiber mat to prevent the paint

 from cracking.  One last comment: the Weld On was mixed by an eyeball

 estimate of 13 to 1 ratio and had a date stamped on the carton  Jul '06.

 I assume that precision ratio and current mat!

  erial would yield a stronger bond.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141889#141889

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

zackrv8

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 133

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: plexiglass bond to fiberglass

If you don't want to use Sika-Flex or Weld-On, try using 3M 2216 Structual Epoxy.  I use this stuff everywhere, even on my RV8 that is 7 years old and has over 1100 hours on it.



  I installed my Rv10 windows, NACA ducts, Rudder Cable Fairings etc... with this product. I was trimming around the interior windows with a razor and it slipped and put a nice gouge in the window.  I tried to polish the window scratch out to no avail.  



Ok.  I neeed to replace the rear window.  Got a chisel out and started to try and pry it off.  No luck.  Started tapping the chisel with a hammer.  Nothing. 



 I finally smacked the plexi with a hammer to beak it and  create a place where I could stick my chisel in and pry the plexi off.  The plexi was "welded" on to the fiberglass!  I had to add heat from a heat gun to persuade it to come off.



  Long story short....use 2216 epoxy for your windows if you want.  It works, has a slow cure time so you can work a little easier.  Does not need a "primer".  Just rough up both mating surfaces with 40 or 80 grit. I forgot to mention that I thicken up the epoxy with some 407 or 406 Colloidal Silca from West Systems so it does not sag.  Cool stuff.



  And one more thing....Be careful with razor blades around your plexi.



Zack



See pic below...

  



 	  n223rv(at)wolflakeairport wrote: 	
		  Not to start a mess here.....  I agree Weld On-10 holds the windows better

than epoxy.  But after having using Weld On-10 and having many issues with

it (like it cracks the windows, even under light pressure clamping,

flashes over very fast, gets very stringy, and is very hard to clean up),

I am not going to use it on my RV-10.  We had to re-install 2 windows (one

being the 1/4" windshield) on my friends RV-10 do to cracks emminating

from the adhesive joints.



I spoke with Jeff at AirPlastics (they make the RV-10 window for Van's). 

He DOES NOT recommend using Weld On-10 as it is too aggressive of an

adhesive and he said he has heard of many issues from it.  He recommended

other adhesives such as Sika Flex.  When we replaced his windshield, we

used the Sika Flex.  There is a black primer you put down, then the caulk

type adhesive.  It worked great, was much easier to use, and the total

cost was about the same as the 5 bottles of Weld On 10.  I used Sika Flex

292UV black along with Sika 209 primer.



I did not compare it side by side with Weld On-10 like eagerlee.  That

would be a nice comparison.  But I did play with it on our old windshield

and it is very strong.



Just my $0.02 cents worth, after using them both to install windows....



-Mike Kraus

2032 RV-4 Flying

40013 RV-10 FWF/Wiring



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I got some Weld On - 10 and replicated my previous experiment with

 structural epoxy as a bonding agent for the RV-10 windows. Again i scuffed

 a test block of plexi and fiberglass, wiped clean with alcohol, glued and

 clamped the pieces, let the glue cure for 24 hours. The difference was day

 and night.  When I hit the epoxy test piece with a ball peen hammer to

 provide a sheer force, the bond between the Plexiglas and epoxy failed by

 a clean separation with a moderate blow of the hammer.  I could not get

 the bond between the plexiglas and the Weld On to fail using severe blows

 from the same hammer: the plexiglas itself failed first.  I'm going to use

 the weld on to fasten my windows and then fill the edge gaps with a

 structural epoxy and do an overlay of glass fiber mat to prevent the paint

 from cracking.  One last comment: the Weld On was mixed by an eyeball

 estimate of 13 to 1 ratio and had a date stamped on the carton  Jul '06.

 I assume that precision ratio and current mat!

  erial would yield a stronger bond.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141889#141889

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

DSC07275.JPG

Description:

Filesize:

53.22 KB

Viewed:

556 Time(s)

_________________
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum