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paulrod36(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:38 pm Post subject: A new thread

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> Does anybody know what the process is to anodyne sheet aluminum in colors?  It strikes me that if your whole plane was skinned in, say, blue, or red, the  only weight you'd have to carry would be the paint for some nice stripes and the  N-number.

  

 Let the games begin!

  

 Paul Rodriguez

   [quote][b]

psm(at)ATT.NET
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:58 pm Post subject: A new thread

Hi Paul



The process is actually called anodizing.  It is a close cousin to 

electroplating.  The resulting surface is jelly like and absorbs food 

coloring to get the actual final color.  It isn't very hard and not a 

good protection from the elements.



Paul

XL fuselage

do not archive



At 01:37 PM 10/29/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Does anybody know what the process is to anodyne sheet aluminum in 

colors? It strikes me that if your whole plane was skinned in, say, 

blue, or red, the only weight you'd have to carry would be the paint 

for some nice stripes and the N-number.



Let the games begin!



Paul Rodriguez

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: A new thread

And I believe I've read that it would weaken the metal somewhat.



[quote="psm(at)ATT.NET"]Hi Paul



The process is actually called anodizing.  It is a close cousin to 

electroplating.  The resulting surface is jelly like and absorbs food 

coloring to get the actual final color.  It isn't very hard and not a 

good protection from the elements.



Paul

XL fuselage

do not archive



At 01:37 PM 10/29/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Does anybody know what the process is to anodyne sheet aluminum in 

colors? It strikes me that if your whole plane was skinned in, say, 

blue, or red, the only weight you'd have to carry would be the paint 

for some nice stripes and the N-number.



Let the games begin!



Paul Rodriguez

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:50 pm Post subject: A new thread

I Don't know where either of you got that "information", because anodizing actually makes the aluminum much harder.  The original purpose of anodizing was to help protect aluminum from the elements and physical abuse, typically for exterior use on buildings.  It was only later that coloring during the anodizing process came into use, and coloring has no effect on hardness. The surface of anodized aluminum is ALWAYS more durable than plain aluminum; and the surface can be made to be nearly as hard as a diamond, depending on the process used.

Jay in Dallas 

"Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

And I believe I've read that it would weaken the metal somewhat.

[quote="psm(at)ATT.NET"]Hi Paul

The process is actually called anodizing.  It is a close cousin to 

electroplating.  The resulting surface is jelly like and absorbs food 

coloring to get the actual final color.  It isn't very hard and not a 

good protection from the elements.

Paul

XL fuselage

do not archive

At 01:37 PM 10/29/2007, you wrote:

> Does anybody know what the process is to anodyne sheet aluminum in 

> colors? It strikes me that if your whole plane was skinned in, say, 

> blue, or red, the only weight you'd have to carry would be the paint 

> for some nice stripes and the N-number.

> 

> Let the games begin!

> 

> Paul Rodriguez

> 

> 

> 

--------

W.R. &quot;Gig&quot; Giacona

601XL Under Construction

See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142620#142620

smoore

Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 10
Location: Lakewood, CO

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:01 pm Post subject: A new thread

The surface is made harder, i.e. more brittle.  Whether this is a BadThing (tm) is left to the arguers.  It's hashed out in lots of forums over and over and over.

The big controversy comes when people anodize spars. 

I have no opinion on the matter either way, still researching.

On 10/29/07, Jaybannist(at)cs.com (Jaybannist(at)cs.com) < Jaybannist(at)cs.com (Jaybannist(at)cs.com)> wrote:[quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by:  Jaybannist(at)cs.com (Jaybannist(at)cs.com)

I Don't know where either of you got that "information", because anodizing actually makes the aluminum much harder.  The original purpose of anodizing was to help protect aluminum from the elements and physical abuse, typically for exterior use on buildings.  It was only later that coloring during the anodizing process came into use, and coloring has no effect on hardness. The surface of anodized aluminum is ALWAYS more durable than plain aluminum; and the surface can be made to be nearly as hard as a diamond, depending on the process used. 

Jay in Dallas

"Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net (wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" < wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net (wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net)>

And I believe I've read that it would weaken the metal somewhat.

[quote="psm(at)ATT.NET"]Hi Paul

The process is actually called anodizing.  It is a close cousin to 

electroplating.  The resulting surface is jelly like and absorbs food

coloring to get the actual final color.  It isn't very hard and not a

good protection from the elements.

Paul

 >XL fuselage

 	  Quote: 	
		  do not archive

At 01:37 PM 10/29/2007, you wrote:

> Does anybody know what the process is to anodyne sheet aluminum in

> colors? It strikes me that if your whole plane was skinned in, say, 

> blue, or red, the only weight you'd have to carry would be the paint

> for some nice stripes and the N-number.

>

> Let the games begin!

>

> Paul Rodriguez 

>

--------

W.R. &quot;Gig&quot; Giacona

601XL Under Construction

See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR 

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142620#142620

moore.sean(at)gmail.com (moore.sean(at)gmail.com)  [quote][b]

_________________
--
Sean Moore
... re-evaluating mission

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:25 pm Post subject: A new thread

I know nothing about anodizing myself, but I recall a discussion on one of 

my lists (don't remember which) that said that anodizing made the aluminum 

surface harder and more durable but the downside was that the surface could 

crack during distortion and create stress concentrators and cause premature 

failure of the metal.



Just a discussion I recall. Don't know if it is true or not, just offering 

it as another piece of data.



Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN



"Hope for the best,

but prepare for the worst."



do not archive

---

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:16 pm Post subject: A new thread

Paul;

  

 While I am not an expert and am not qualified to give a rebuttal, I believe you are not right on this. color anodizing is used for a final finish on many parts in teh machine, racing, and tool industry. Anodizing is a hard coating and it is aluminum oxide so it is a barrier against further corrosion to some degree. There is even a process called hard anodizing where the surface is made hard enough to rpovide some wear resistance. I am certain that someone far more qualified than I can give accurate detailed information on the anodizing process.

 

  Dave Downey

 Harleysville (SE) PA

 100 HP Corvair



 



 ---

Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:17 pm Post subject: A new thread

I don't think that bending an anodized aluminum sheet would be recommended.  The surface is harder, but it is also more brittle, less ductile.  Anodizing is usually done on sheet metal that is already formed. Once the forming has concluded, ductility is not an issue and anodizing won't contribute a concentration of stresses.



Jay in Dallas

  



"raymondj" <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net> wrote:



[quote]



I know nothing about anodizing myself, but I recall a discussion on one of 

my lists (don't remember which) that said that anodizing made the aluminum 

surface harder and more durable but the downside was that the surface could 

crack during distortion and create stress concentrators and cause premature 

failure of the metal.



Just a discussion I recall. Don't know if it is true or not, just offering 

it as another piece of data.



Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN



"Hope for the best,

but prepare for the worst."



do not archive

---

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:19 pm Post subject: A new thread

...just make sure thast you do not try to Alodine treat any assembled structure. The process must be thoroughly rinsed to stop the attack (all but one specific type of Alodine).

 

  Dave Downey

 Harleysville (SE) PA

 100 HP Corvair



 



 ---

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: A new thread

 	  Jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote: 	
		  I don't think that bending an anodized aluminum sheet would be recommended.  The surface is harder, but it is also more brittle, less ductile. 	




Which is what I meant by weaker. I probably should have said brittle.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

jimandmandy(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:52 pm Post subject: A new thread

Its the so called "hard" anodizing, which is black in

color that makes parts brittle. An unfortunate

incident with black anodized helicopter control rods

was a good illistration to me. We had hard anodize

parts recently fail fatigue tests at work. I related

this to a long-retired Douglas engineer and he said it

was common knowlege. Some lessons have to be learned

over and over again.

 

Clear or color anodize, which is clear plus color dye,

is too thin to weaken the base metal. When I worked at

Hi-Shear (the aerospace fastener company), we anodized

all the aluminum parts we made. 2024 and 7075 alloys

need corrosion protection. 



Back in the 1960's, Continental Airlines tried the

idea of gold anodized skins instead of paint for the

Convair 880. It didnt work, looked like a

checkerboard. The process is just not that even in dye

absorbtion to use on sheet metal skins.

 

--- David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



[quote] Paul;

 

 While I am not an expert and am not qualified to

 give a rebuttal, I believe you are not right on

 this. color anodizing is used for a final finish on

 many parts in teh machine, racing, and tool

 industry. Anodizing is a hard coating and it is

 aluminum oxide so it is a barrier against further

 corrosion to some degree. There is even a process

 called hard anodizing where the surface is made hard

 enough to rpovide some wear resistance. I am certain

 that someone far more qualified than I can give

 accurate detailed information on the anodizing

 process.

  

 Dave Downey

 Harleysville (SE) PA

 100 HP Corvair

 

 

 

 ---

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