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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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 Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:11 am Post subject: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge |
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By
| Quote: | my count, only four more shots on this string (not counting this one,
which
is administrative in nature) will eclipse the infamous SEAFOAM string
back
in the fall of '98...
Historic Beauford
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Bill:
Makes no difference, admin or not, the tally goes up with the subject line.
Are you still testing the helmet VG system?
john h
mkIII
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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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possums(at)bellsouth.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:03 pm Post subject: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge |
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At 01:54 PM 10/6/2007, you wrote:
| Quote: | By
my count, only four more shots on this string (not counting this one, which
is administrative in nature) will eclipse the infamous SEAFOAM string back
in the fall of '98... an extended bit of self-imposed agony which literally
brought tears to the eyes, new scar tissue to the fingers and lowered PH to
the intestinal tracts of Listers for many months afterward....
Historic Beauford |
By Gosh - this ought to put us over the top - one for the good guys!
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I didn't expect them to do a lot - so I put them on with the
Double stick tape so I could remove them later.
The instructions say to use double stick tape until you
find the optimum location or "sweet spot" and then glue them
later. I think I will just leave them stuck on with the tape I got
at the auto paint shop - it seems pretty strong. However mineral
spirts seems to loosen & dissolve the glue if I ever want o move
them or take them off.
I was very impressed - and am going to leave them on my wings.
On take off I can point the nose up and up and more up ("more up" is a tech term).
and hold the air speed just over 30 mph and it seems to just hang
and it really does seem to knock about 6 mph off my
stall speed. Got a $30 Hall speed indicator out side the
plane - it's more accurate than the one inside.
I was just surprised at what these little things would actually do for
the amount of time and money invested. And like Jeremy says it's not
just that you can fly slower, it's "how well" you can fly slower
that's what most impressed to me. 30 mph no mush. I fly my plane slow
- a lot.
Ole slow Possum
[quote][b]
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DAquaNut(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:04 pm Post subject: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge |
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In a message dated 10/6/2007 10:38:57 A.M. Central Standard Time, jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net writes:
| Quote: | Will you duck and run and hide behind the "Homer" and "stock" word? Or are
you up to the challenge?. Here is a chance to try them at no cost to you,
and as you say "seeing is believing." The best part is that you get to do
it in your own aircraft so there will be no question about aircraft
variations except the without and with VG's.
If you do not want to do it, I will understand. I'm just trying to give you
non VG guys a rough time.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
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One thing about what you are suggesting is that it would be a legitimate and fair apples to apples test! I like the idea but they are kinda of ugly! I do know if I have an engine out and only a short spot to put er down, the slower I touch down the better my chances of stopping quick. My interest is still in the truth!
Ed Diebel
See what's new a [quote][b]
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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:59 am Post subject: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge |
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I think I will combine the two ideas and slather my wingtops with
seafoam.
10% faster cruise and 10% lower stall. Can I shave with that stuff?
BBBurmashave do not archive
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Ed in JXN
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 122
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:38 am Post subject: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge |
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Hi Listers,
Jeremy's taken the words right out of my mouth..
I fly GA planes as a contractor (hired gun for owners/corporations), and some of the piston-powered single and twins have VG's. Having flown a given aircraft with and without VG's, and not having a monetary investment one way or the other, I can state that the VG's totally transform the aircraft. Most of the Cessna and Piper twins are notoriously underpowered, and having VG's drops Vmca (single-engine minimum-control speed) significantly, making the airplane much safer in a dangerous situation.
On the singles, also improves low-speed (takeoff as well as landing) feel and performance. No degradation at all in cruise. None.
Before I flew VG's, I too thought they were snake-oil (think Seafoam). The proof is in the puddin'.
Those who don't use them, you don't know what you're missing. When my MkII gets rebuilt, it'll have them. Mainly to save on gear legs.
Ed in JXN
MkII/503
[quote] ---
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henry.voris
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 116
Location: Pueo Field, Kula, Maui
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge |
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Ray,
You said,"...OK next year some one is going to install REAL high lift low speed devices like leading edge Slats right?"
I know a pilot who built a 701 in Arizona... After flying it for a while. he took the leading edge slats off the plane and installed VG's. He claims lower stall and higher cruise speeds ( I don't recall the exact numbers but it was significant.).
Henry
FireFly Five-Charlie-Bravo
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_________________
Henry
Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo
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mshimei(at)bellsouth.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:45 am Post subject: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge |
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When I bought my twinstar several years ago, I was not impressed by the SLOW SPEED handling.. Any turn more than 20 deg resulted in a mush and almost complete loss of aileron control. This required full deflection to correct the turn. I am used to flying a Phantom, so I thought this was the way the Kolb design flew.
Then just for my own personal amusement, I cut some VGs from plastic shim stock and taped them on, took about 80 or so.
I didn’t know what to expect on the first flight, so I was careful on roll out...WOW!!! plane jumped off in 1/4 less distance and the angle of climb was about 10-15 degrees more with no buffet or aileron mush. I could fly it around 45 and make 60 degree banks with no mush or lack of control. Landings were different. I didn’t plop it down like before and could lower my approach speed.
Yes, I checked the rigging, control throws, CG, and lateral balance. Added a 5lb weight to the right wing to balance me out sitting on the left side.
Mark....Who is going to see Big Lar in New Mexico on Wednesday or Friday.
[quote][b]
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biglar
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:02 pm Post subject: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge |
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Not Kolb Related, but FUN ! ! !
We did see the balloons, and they were great. Mark and his family saw much more of it than I did. Let's see if I can attach some pics so's I don't hurt the guys on dial up................ Lar. Do not Archive.
Mark Shimei wrote: | Quote: | st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } <![endif]-->
Mark....Who is going to see Big Lar in New Mexico on Wednesday or Friday.
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href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose" |
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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
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| Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:34 am Post subject: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge |
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Hi Lar,
great pics as usual. Annually we have the largest balloon fiesta in the UK, and maybe in Europe at Bristol, about 20 miles from home.. Pretty good but not as many balloons as yours . The weather usually scrubs a couple of days out of the week too. Cameron Balloons, a major balloon maker, is based in Bristol and I think that Cameron was instrumental in getting the event going.
Cheers
Pat
[quote][b]
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faisalasif
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:46 am Post subject: Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge |
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sea foam is polystyrene.
kindly correct my spelling if i am wrong.
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Possums
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge |
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TEST
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Possum |
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R. Hankins
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 185
Location: Grants Pass, Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge |
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| faisalasif wrote: | sea foam is polystyrene.
kindly correct my spelling if i am wrong. |
Well not quite... (although your spelling was correct)
Here is the breakdown acording to the MSDS (attached):
Pale Oil: 40-60%
Naphtha : 25-35%
IPA : 10-20%
"Pale Oil" : A base or process oil refined until its color, by transmitted light, is straw to pale yellow. Can be of multiple origins included natural agricultural hydrocarbons or distillates of crude petroleum.
Naphtha : An aromatic hydrocarbon that is typically used as a petroleum, hydrocarbon, or organic solvent. Coleman lantern fuel is one type of naphtha. Ronsonol lighter fluid is another. One form is used as a base for the production of olefins, the building blocks of many plastics.
IPA : Isopropal Alcohol. Also known in the US as "rubbing alcohol."
In theory, one should be able to whip up a batch of this stuff in one's garage from commonly available ingredients. Is this how it came into being in the first place? Inquiring minds want to know.......
Do not Archive.
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| Seafoam Material Safety Data Sheet |
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_________________
Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503 - N1782C |
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a58r(at)verizon.net
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:42 pm Post subject: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge |
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Dang, I jes' knew SeaFoam would eventually raise its ugly head, when the Big Bloviation aka SSI, politics, usw caught "far."
Ain't it about time to either change the Subject line, or BETTER, drop the anti-everything thread that's morphed into a hawser?
regards,
Bob N. FireFly 070 Old Kolb
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/
do not archive
[quote][b]
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