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rod(at)themoney.com.au
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 Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:14 am Post subject: Commander 685... great aircraft or great challenge? |
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G’day,
I’m looking for some guidance from the wise council that seems to wander these halls. I’m an Aussie who is looking at buying a 685.
There is only one 685 on the Australian register and I have to say that the LAME’s down here are scathing about a whole range of things in regard to the aircraft. I have about 50 hours in the more common twin commanders and really liked the experience. My flying has changed and I decided that I wanted to upgrade to a pressurised twin. I thought I’d end up in a C340 or 414. Then I came across the 685. It looks good on paper. The price is good. I can afford ( I think) to maintain it properly. Then I started talking to the LAME’s and the brokers. Here’s what they told me:
<![if !supportLists]>1. <![endif]>It’s the heaviest commander and does carry enough load to be used in charter.
<![if !supportLists]>2. <![endif]>The geared engines never go to TBO, are near impossible to manage effectively in the 685 and will cost you a fortune if you can find the parts to overhaul.
<![if !supportLists]>3. <![endif]>Parts for the airframe are difficult if not impossible to get.
<![if !supportLists]>4. <![endif]>The spar inspection is incredibly costly, must be done every 3 years and if corrosion is found will cost $100k + to fix.
<![if !supportLists]>5. <![endif]>The list of AD’s is ludicrously long and getting longer.
Now there is a fair chance that my friendly experts may - 1. Never have seen a 685. 2. Almost certainly never have worked on one. 3. Don’t like pressurised or turbo charged aircraft because in Australia we don’t have mountains or weather to justify it. I on the other hand have spent the past several years flying a Mooney TLS around and really valueing the capacity to get above what little weather we have and certainly out of the summer chop that gets generated by our wide hot land.
So I’m hoping that someone who has owned and flown 685 can set me straight and give me some encouragement to believe that it would be my ideal aircraft. With 5 young kids I could see myself exploring the world for the next 10 years in a long legged comfortable pressurised twin.
Warmly,
Rod Douglas
PS… I don’t know if he was part of this community but the Aero Commanders greatest advocate in Australia was a guy named Steve Knott. Steve had a fleet of 26 commanders of various persuasions’. He introduced me to the Aero Commander and most of my time flying them was in his aircraft. Steve was unfortunately killed with one of his pilots when the Commander they were flying flew into terrain in bad weather a couple of months ago. Steve was a difficult character but a great guy who believed in the Aero Commander and aviation in Australia. Vale Steve Knott.
Rod Douglas MBA FAICD
CEO
Successystems Pty Ltd
'Plethora'
32b Jardine Road
Beechmont Qld 4211
(P) 07 55 333 222
(F) 07 55 333 012
(M) 0409 55 3335
[quote][b]
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n395v
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:05 am Post subject: Re: Commander 685... great aircraft or great challenge? |
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Rod,
I guarantee your experts have never flown or owned a 685 Commander.
It is all hogwash.
It is a wonderful plane. I owned and flew one for quite a while and loved it. The engines will make or exceed TBO if you are nice to them. They may require a a few cylinders around 900 to 1000 hrs. but the bottom end of the engine is rock solid.
It does require a bit of runway for take off but it is a 9,000# gross weight airplane. It will perform to the book numbers if you fly it by the book.
It is not dangerous and it is a sheer joy to fly.
It does like to drink fuel but in return you get pressurised comfort in the flight levels at 200+Knots.
I owned N414C which is now currently owned by another list member.
If its the plane you want get it you will not regret it. The only Twin Commander experts are right here on this list.
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Milt |
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dowens(at)aerialviewpoint
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:42 am Post subject: Commander 685... great aircraft or great challenge? |
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HAVE YOU EVER BEEN GUILTY OF LOOKING AT OTHERS YOUR OWN AGE AND
THINKING, 'SURELY I CAN'T LOOK THAT OLD. WELL. YOU'LL LOVE THIS ONE.
MY NAME IS ALICE SMITH AND I WAS SITTING IN THE WAITING ROOM FOR MY
FIRST APPOINTMENT WITH A NEW DENTIST. I NOTICED HIS DDS DIPLOMA, WHICH
BORE HIS FULL NAME.
SUDDENLY, I REMEMBERED A TALL, HANDSOME, DARK-HAIRED BOY WITH THE
SAME NAME HAD BEEN IN MY HIGH SCHOOL CLASS ALMOST 50 YEARS AGO.
COULD HE BE THE SAME GUY THAT I HAD A SECRET CRUSH ON, WAY BACK
THEN? UPON SEEING HIM, HOWEVER, I QUICKLY DISCARDED ANY SUCH THOUGHT
THIS BALDING, GRAY-HAIRED MAN WITH THE DEEPLY LINED FACE WAS WAY TOO
OLD TO HAVE BEEN MY CLASSMATE.
JUST TO PROVE MYSELF WRONG, AFTER HE EXAMINED MY TEETH, I ASKED HIM IF HE
HAD ATTENDED ABRAHAM LINCOLN HIGH SCHOOL IN COUNCIL BLUFFS, IOWA.
"YES. YES, I DID ...I'M A LYNX," HE GLEAMED WITH PRIDE.
"WHEN DID YOU GRADUATE?" I ASKED. HE ANSWERED, "IN 1960. WHY DO YOU ASK?"
"YOU WERE IN MY CLASS!", I EXCLAIMED.
HE LOOKED AT ME CLOSELY. THEN, THAT UGLY, OLD, BALD, WRINKLED, FAT
ASSED, GRAY-HAIRED, DECREPIT SON-OF-A-B****ASKED, "WHAT DID YOU TEACH?"
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill
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n395v
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Commander 685... great aircraft or great challenge? |
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WTF?????????????????????????????????????????????
| dowens(at)aerialviewpoint wrote: | HAVE YOU EVER BEEN GUILTY OF LOOKING AT OTHERS YOUR OWN AGE AND
THINKING, 'SURELY I CAN'T LOOK THAT OLD. WELL. YOU'LL LOVE THIS ONE.
MY NAME IS ALICE SMITH AND I WAS SITTING IN THE WAITING ROOM FOR MY
FIRST APPOINTMENT WITH A NEW DENTIST. I NOTICED HIS DDS DIPLOMA, WHICH
BORE HIS FULL NAME.
SUDDENLY, I REMEMBERED A TALL, HANDSOME, DARK-HAIRED BOY WITH THE
SAME NAME HAD BEEN IN MY HIGH SCHOOL CLASS ALMOST 50 YEARS AGO.
COULD HE BE THE SAME GUY THAT I HAD A SECRET CRUSH ON, WAY BACK
THEN? UPON SEEING HIM, HOWEVER, I QUICKLY DISCARDED ANY SUCH THOUGHT
THIS BALDING, GRAY-HAIRED MAN WITH THE DEEPLY LINED FACE WAS WAY TOO
OLD TO HAVE BEEN MY CLASSMATE.
JUST TO PROVE MYSELF WRONG, AFTER HE EXAMINED MY TEETH, I ASKED HIM IF HE
HAD ATTENDED ABRAHAM LINCOLN HIGH SCHOOL IN COUNCIL BLUFFS, IOWA.
"YES. YES, I DID ...I'M A LYNX," HE GLEAMED WITH PRIDE.
"WHEN DID YOU GRADUATE?" I ASKED. HE ANSWERED, "IN 1960. WHY DO YOU ASK?"
"YOU WERE IN MY CLASS!", I EXCLAIMED.
HE LOOKED AT ME CLOSELY. THEN, THAT UGLY, OLD, BALD, WRINKLED, FAT
ASSED, GRAY-HAIRED, DECREPIT SON-OF-A-B****ASKED, "WHAT DID YOU TEACH?"
David Owens
Aerial Viewpoint
N14AV
AC-500A-Colemill |
| | - The Matronics Commander-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List |
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Milt |
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BillLeff1(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:34 pm Post subject: Commander 685... great aircraft or great challenge? |
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Rod, in answer to your questions about the 685. I have been flying and training in 685's for many years. I also was part owner in a service shop that specialized in 685's. Sometimes we would have as many as 6 on my ramp or in the hangar at a time.
1. It is a heavy airplane but it has an adequate useful load. You can carry fuel or people but not both at the same time. It carries 320 gal of fuel so with two people you can go a long way! It is the quietest cabin you will ever fly in a prop driven airplane.
2. The geared engines are sensitive but with good overhauls and proper flying techniques they should last. The most common problems are cylinders and cracked cases. All the parts are available for the engine but there are only a few shops that still support the fuel injection system but it is supported.
3. The airframe is very dependable and most parts are available. The most important parts, landing gear etc. are common to all flat nacelle Commanders. The airframe is 690 Turbo Commander and the rest is generic.
4. The spar inspection is $10-12K every 36 months but if corrosion is found there are shorter inspection intervals for the effected area. You are right, it cost about $100k to replace the spar cap but that is unusual. If the spar is good now it probably will continue to be good.
The list of AD's on Commanders is actually very short. Check the list for a piper Navajo or a 421!.
The parts that are hardest to get are the Turbocharger system. I recommend keeping a spare turbo around.
Training is available. I can come to Australia.
Bill Leff
See what's new [quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Commander-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List |
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