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rcdettmer(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:41 am Post subject: Engine Analyzer

I am looking at installing an engine analyzer on my 680F when I hang the re-built engines in several weeks.  Any advice out there on recommended systems and prices..??  John Vormbaum, I believe that you had a system installed on your 500B.  What system was it and how much did it cost..??  I am also interested in any advice from you experienced geared Commander guys about recommended procedures for breaking in and operating the new engines.  You can believe that I will want to be VERY conservative in treating those engines with TLC.  Thanks.  

<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  

Randy Dettmer, AIA  

680F / N6253X  

<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  

 AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail  Signature" <![endif]-->[img]cid:image001.gif(at)01C81BB2.DF3832F0[/img]  

<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  

663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA  93405  

805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865  

http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/  

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bobf(at)feldtman.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:54 am Post subject: Engine Analyzer

kamala(at)MSN.COM
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:49 am Post subject: Engine Analyzer

rd, i have found the JPI units to be very helpful on three different aircraft. mason

  	  Quote: 	
		    From: rcdettmer(at)charter.net

To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Engine Analyzer

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:40:52 -0700

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I am looking at installing an engine analyzer on my 680F when I hang the re-built engines in several weeks.  Any advice out there on recommended systems and prices..??  John Vormbaum, I believe that you had a system installed on your 500B.  What system was it and how much did it cost..??  I am also interested in any advice from you experienced geared Commander guys about recommended procedures for breaking in and operating the new engines.  You can believe that I will want to be VERY conservative in treating those engines with TLC.  Thanks. 

Randy Dettmer, AIA 

680F / N6253X 

[img]cid:image001.gif(at)01C81BB2.DF3832F0[/img] 

663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA  93405 

805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865 

http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/

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John Vormbaum

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 273
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:28 pm Post subject: Engine Analyzer

Hi Randy,



I had the JPI EDM-760 Twin engine analyzer put in my airplane last year. 

It cost ~$5k IIRC, and it's worth every penny. You could do it for less, 

but I added on the optional fuel totalizer, and I love it. The JPI is a 

very capable unit (moreso than the EI units I compared them to) and I 

really like the software that comes with it, allowing you to download 

all your flight history & engine behavior.



I HIGHLY recommend it. If nothing else, it'll pay for itself in fuel in 

a few years.



/John

MASON CHEVAILLIER wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   rd, i have found the JPI units to be very helpful on three different 

 aircraft. mason



     ------------------------------------------------------------------------

     From: rcdettmer(at)charter.net

     To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

     Subject: Engine Analyzer

     Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:40:52 -0700



     I am looking at installing an engine analyzer on my 680F when I

     hang the re-built engines in several weeks.  Any advice out there

     on recommended systems and prices..??  John Vormbaum, I believe

     that you had a system installed on your 500B.  What system was it

     and how much did it cost..??  I am also interested in any advice

     from you experienced geared Commander guys about recommended

     procedures for breaking in and operating the new engines.  You can

     believe that I will want to be VERY conservative in treating those

     engines with TLC.  Thanks.



      



     Randy Dettmer, AIA



     680F / N6253X



      



      



     *663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA  93405*



     *805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865*



     *http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/***



      



 __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________

rcdettmer(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:32 pm Post subject: Engine Analyzer

Was that $5K installed or uninstalled..??  Thanks.



RD



663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA  93405

805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865

http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/



--

kamala(at)MSN.COM
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:46 pm Post subject: Engine Analyzer

rd, one unit per side has worked out well. mason to see commander aero install  google 2001M



  > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:26:12 -0700

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: john(at)vormbaum.com

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer

 

 --> Commander-List message posted by: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>

 

 Hi Randy,

 

 I had the JPI EDM-760 Twin engine analyzer put in my airplane last year. 

 It cost ~$5k IIRC, and it's worth every penny. You could do it for less, 

 but I added on the optional fuel totalizer, and I love it. The JPI is a 

 very capable unit (moreso than the EI units I compared them to) and I 

 really like the software that comes with it, allowing you to download 

 all your flight history & engine behavior.

 

 I HIGHLY recommend it. If nothing else, it'll pay for itself in fuel in 

 a few years.

 

 /John

 

 

 MASON CHEVAILLIER wrote:

 > rd, i have found the JPI units to be very helpful on three different 

 > aircraft. mason

 >

 >

 >

 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 > From: rcdettmer(at)charter.net

 > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

 > Subject: Engine Analyzer

 > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:40:52 -0700

 >

 > I am looking at installing an engine analyzer on my 680F when I

 > hang the re-built engines in several weeks. Any advice out there

 > on recommended systems and prices..?? John Vormbaum, I believe

 > that you had a system installed on your 500B. What system was it

 > and how much did it cost..?? I am also interested in any advice

 > from you experienced geared Commander guys about recommended

 > procedures for breaking in and operating the new engines. You can

 > believe that I will want to be VERY conservative in treating those

 > engines with TLC. Thanks.

 >

 > 

 >

 > Randy Dettmer, AIA

 >

 > 680F / N6253X

 >

 > 

 >

 > 

 >

 > *663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405*

 >

 > *805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865*

 >

 > *http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/***

 >

 > 

 >

 >

 >

 > __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________

&gt=
	


[quote] 

 

 

   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

John Vormbaum

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 273
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:55 pm Post subject: Engine Analyzer

Installed, had it done during my last annual.



Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:

[quote] 



 Was that $5K installed or uninstalled..??  Thanks.



 RD



 663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA  93405

 805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865

 http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/



 --

rcdettmer(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:03 pm Post subject: Engine Analyzer

I am getting quoted over $8K by my shop in Salinas - $4345 for the unit from

JPI (including a $300 JPI rebate) and about $4K to install.  I am looking at

12 pair of wires from each engine (or more) routed to the panel.  Is that

the same for your installation..??



663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA  93405

805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865

http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/



--

BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:34 pm Post subject: Engine Analyzer

Do not run on ground except to check operation and leaks. In the air lots  of airspeed, lots of power and lots of fuel. This will seat the rings in without  glazing the cylinder walls. Make fine adjustments after break-in flight. Again  don't let it get hot on the ground while making the adjustments. The Overhauled  fuel injectors will be 10% rich because they are set up for 680FL's with Big air  Scoops. Lean it on ground for proper operation, get it in the air and adjust it  later.

  

 Bill Leff



See what's  [quote][b]

rsrandazzo(at)precisionma
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:44 am Post subject: Engine Analyzer

Guys-  

   

We installed a Gemini in N414C, and I’ve found it to be a superb instrument.  We obtained it at a heavy discount through a personal contact- and after a brief seven hours of flight time in the airplane- I can’t imagine not having had one installed before.  The one down side to the instrument is that they married themselves to a data extraction tool that effectively became outmoded a while back- but they haven’t taken it out of their literature yet- so all the data logging I was hoping for has not materialized.  

   

In this respect I wish we’d gotten the JPI- as the data logging functions on that device still work.  

   

As for the operation and functionality of the instrument- I think very highly of it!  

   

We’re currently discussing having one installed on the SNJ…  It may be smart to wait for the next engine overhaul, however.  

   

Robert S. Randazzo  

       

From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MASON CHEVAILLIER

 Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:46 PM

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Engine Analyzer  

  

  

   

rd, one unit per side has worked out well. mason to see commander aero install  google 2001M

 

 

       

  

 	  Quote: 	
		   Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:26:12 -0700

 > From: john(at)vormbaum.com
	


 > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

 > Subject: Re: Engine Analyzer

 > 

 > --> Commander-List message posted by: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>

 > 

 > Hi Randy,

 > 

 > I had the JPI EDM-760 Twin engine analyzer put in my airplane last year. 

 > It cost ~$5k IIRC, and it's worth every penny. You could do it for less, 

 > but I added on the optional fuel totalizer, and I love it. The JPI is a 

 > very capable unit (moreso than the EI units I compared them to) and I 

 > really like the software that comes with it, allowing you to download 

 > all your flight history & engine behavior.

 > 

 > I HIGHLY recommend it. If nothing else, it'll pay for itself in fuel in 

 > a few years.

 > 

 > /John

 > 

 > 

 > MASON CHEVAILLIER wrote:

 > > rd, i have found the JPI units to be very helpful on three different 

 > > aircraft. mason

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 > > From: rcdettmer(at)charter.net

 > > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

 > > Subject: Engine Analyzer

 > > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:40:52 -0700

 > >

 > > I am looking at installing an engine analyzer on my 680F when I

 > > hang the re-built engines in several weeks. Any advice out there

 > > on recommended systems and prices..?? John Vormbaum, I believe

 > > that you had a system installed on your 500B. What system was it

 > > and how much did it cost..?? I am also interested in any advice

 > > from you experienced geared Commander guys about recommended

 > > procedures for breaking in and operating the new engines. You can

 > > believe that I will want to be VERY conservative in treating those

 > > engines with TLC. Thanks.

 > >

 > > 

 > >

 > > Randy Dettmer, AIA

 > >

 > > 680F / N6253X

 > >

 > > 

 > >

 > > 

 > >

 > > *663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405*

 > >

 > > *805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865*

 > >

 > > *http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/***

 > >

 > > 

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > > __________ NOD32 2521 (20070911) Information __________

 >=

 > 

 > 

 >    	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4  



 

 __________ NOD32 2630 (20071031) Information __________

 

   

        [quote][b]

steve2(at)sover.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:04 am Post subject: Engine Analyzer

We've got the Insight GEM 1200. The gizmo itself  works well enough, but for years Insight has not released theri proprietary data  encryption and its pissed a lot of people off who have these things.  

  

 One of the neat things these things will do is  store all your engine parameters for retrival later where you can dump it into  spreadsheets and other applications. Insight was locking you into some ancient  HP calculator with an infra-red port. Maybe things have changed. We haven't  looked for over a year now. But it might be worthwhile to ask about data  retrieval before purchasing. It would be fascinating to 'read' all the  parameters that lead up to your failure. (Particularly if I'm not having to pay  for those engines!)

  

 Steve

 [quote]   ---

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andrew.bridget(at)telus.n
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:03 am Post subject: Engine Analyzer

Randy, my brother was looking at an AuRacle engine  analyser for his Twin Comanche; didn't end up buying one in the end - they were  all too expensive in South Africa. He said that, given the resources,  the AuRacle would likely be his choice. It has USB transfer and apparently is  (software) upgradeable via USB too. Don't know anything else about  it.

  

<![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail  Signature" <![endif]--><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]><![endif]--><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> God bless,

 Andrew

    [quote][b]

rcdettmer(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:52 am Post subject: Engine Analyzer

Thanks Andrew for the response.  I am leaning towards a JPI unit at this time.  So far I have heard many positive things about JPI.  Still doing research.  

<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  

Randy  

<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  

 AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail  Signature" <![endif]-->[img]cid:image001.gif(at)01C81EB7.9D395D90[/img]  

<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  

Dettmer Architecture  

663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA  93405  

805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865  

http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/  

<![endif]--><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  

-----Original Message-----

 From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of andrew.bridget(at)telus.net

 Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 11:02 AM

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Commander-List: Engine Analyzer  

<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  

Randy, my brother was looking at an AuRacle engine analyser for his Twin Comanche; didn't end up buying one in the end - they were all too expensive in South Africa. He said that, given the resources, the AuRacle would likely be his choice. It has USB transfer and apparently is (software) upgradeable via USB too. Don't know anything else about it.  

   

 AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail  Signature" <![endif]--><![endif]-->  

God bless,  

Andrew   	  Quote: 	
		  <![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>       -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --           (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)   November is the Annual List Fund Raiser.  Click on   the Contribution link below to find out more about   this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts!   List Contribution Web Site:   --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution   Thank you for your generous support!                              -Matt Dralle, List Admin.          - The Commander-List Email Forum -   --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -   --> http://forums.matronics.com<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>

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John Vormbaum

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 273
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:46 am Post subject: Engine Analyzer

Randy,



I still feel strongly that the JPI is the one to get for these reasons:



1) It's a TWIN model, you only need to occupy one hole in your panel

2) The built-in fuel totalizer is great

3) The data logging & retrieval functions work perfectly (I love that 

feature) via RS-232 to Serial cable.



I just bring my laptop in the airplane every now & then and download all 

the data. The software provided by JPI is great, I can graph CHT, EGT, 

Fuel flow, and break them down any way I want. Makes a bad plug, failing 

valve etc. very easy to detect....before it fails.



Here are a couple of articles on engine management where the JPI plays a 

big part. I like John Deakin's work and tend to agree with him, 

especially vs. the Old Wives' Tales that Lycoming and Continental 

occasionally still spew:



http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182176-1.html (Good graphics of the 

JPI software graphs)

http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182084-1.html (Love this one, it's the 

LOP vs. ROP argument)



Here's a link to all Deakin's articles. The JPI appears in many: 

http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182544-1.html



Incidentally, I got quite a break on the price. I have been told that a 

JPI install is roughly 40 hrs. At today's shop rates, your $8k estimate 

is about right.



Cheers,



/John



Randy Dettmer, AIA wrote:

[quote]

 Thanks Andrew for the response.  I am leaning towards a JPI unit at 

 this time.  So far I have heard many positive things about JPI.  Still 

 doing research.



  



 Randy



  



  



 *Dettmer Architecture*



 *663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA  93405*



 *805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865*



 *http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/***



  



 --

andrew.bridget(at)telus.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:47 pm Post subject: Engine Analyzer

>  I am leaning towards  a JPI unit at this time

  

 Hi Randy... just as well - apparently I was talking  through my hat. My brother tells me that, while the download features are good  on the AuRacle, it is only available for a limited number of aircraft. <![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail  Signature" <![endif]--><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]><![endif]--><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail  Signature" <![endif]--><![endif]--><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>

  

 God bless,

 Andrew

    [quote][b]

n395v

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450

Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Analyzer

JPI JPI JPI JPI

_________________
Milt

nico(at)cybersuperstore.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:56 am Post subject: Engine Analyzer

Randy,

Just as a matter of (academic, I suppose) interest, did you consider

replacing the engines with the Mr. RPM 800HP conversion?

Nico

--

rcdettmer(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:06 am Post subject: Engine Analyzer

Hi Nico,

No, I didn't.  Interesting idea, though.  How many hundreds of thousands of

dollars would the Mr. RPM's cost..??  I have heard them mentioned many times

on this list, and assume that the performance upgrade is significant.



RD



Dettmer Architecture

663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA  93405

805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865

http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/



--

nico(at)cybersuperstore.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:00 am Post subject: Engine Analyzer

Hi Randy,

You can visit the commander website (www.aerocommander.com) and follow the

link STC Holders, which will lead you to Dick MacCoon's website with his

Commander STC's. 

I am sure he will be able to provide you with more knowledgeable information

than I can. It might be worth a visit.

There is a video of the Orenda-engined Commander flying, too. Last time I

checked, it was for sale.

It would be interesting to hear your perceptions on the 800hp conversion.

Thanks

Nico

--

kamala(at)MSN.COM
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:03 am Post subject: Engine Analyzer

rd, two (2). pls call if you wish to visit about it. mason 817-517-4977



  > From: rcdettmer(at)charter.net

[quote] To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Engine Analyzer

 Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 07:06:00 -0800

 

 --> Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>

 

 Hi Nico,

 No, I didn't. Interesting idea, though. How many hundreds of thousands of

 dollars would the Mr. RPM's cost..?? I have heard them mentioned many times

 on this list, and assume that the performance upgrade is significant.

 

 RD

 

 

 

 Dettmer Architecture

 663 Hill Street, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405

 805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865

 http://www.dettmerarchitecture.com/

 

 --

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