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crichka(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:37 am Post subject: Automotive plugs

Hi Hi Yakers;

  

 I am converting my M-14P to Automotive spark plug system. I need some info. for what plugs are best to use.

  

 Thanks.

Chanock

Born to fly, Forced to work

Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! Get 'em!  [quote][b]

cliff(at)gesoco.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:02 am Post subject: Automotive plugs

Two things about the auto plug conversion that isn't going to help you 

at all Chanock -grin-



1) Jill & Carl will have their automotive sparkplug adapters available 

in about a month or two.  These will be a direct replacement for the 

current plugs without any change to the ignition harness.



2) Champion Aerospace has completed testing of the RVL-38S and will make 

them for sale in the beginning of next year.  These are a fine wire 

direct replacement for current Russian plugs.  The test reports from the 

Romanian factory, and field tests here in the states are very positive.  

They're gonna be pricey, but will outlast a Russian plug better than 2 to 1.



Cheers,

C



Chanock Richka wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Hi Hi Yakers;

  

 I am converting my M-14P to Automotive spark plug system. I need some 

 info. for what plugs are best to use.

  

 Thanks.

 Chanock

 Born to fly, Forced to work



 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! Get 'em! 

 <http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us>

 *

 *


	


-- 

Clifford Coy

Director of Maintenance

Border Air Ltd

629 Airport Rd.

Swanton, VT 05488

802-868-2822 TEL

802-868-4465 FAX

Skype: callto:Cliff.Coy <callto:cliff.coy>

cyco55(at)COMCAST.NET
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:19 am Post subject: Automotive plugs

Call Dennis at Yak 52 World in Alabama

 [quote]   ---

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:14 am Post subject: Automotive plugs

Cliff,

It is going to be nice to have a replacement for the existing RU plugs by

Champion. But! When it cost about $45 for a single plug and 18 NGK plugs

cost the same as that one plug, after making the Taylor wiring harness

conversion of about $400, why buy 18 Champion plugs? Especially, when you

can throw away the NGK's at the end of a year of flying. However, mine and

others I have seen at the end of a year look perfectly fine and could

probably be used another year. But, when they only cost ~$45 for the entire

set, why take the risk?

As for the new direct replacement for the cigarette, again not to knock Jill

and Carl's efforts but the frankly the RU wiring sux. Even the brand new

harness that is on my newly rebuilt M14 from Lithuania with only 26 hours on

it to date, SUX! I have had to take the ends off the cigarette and spray

SP-2 down the shield to stop the misfiring. So far that has held up, when it

fails that beautifully done new harness is history! So putting a auto plug

adapter on the end of a P.O.S. RU wire is like trying to make a silk purse

out of a pig's ear.

In my not so humble opinion. But I definitely know I have earned the T shirt

for test flying misfiring RU plug wire harnesses and crapped out "new"

coils! I suspect I have more time nursing misfiring RU engines because of

"new coils" and "rebuilt" mags than anyone on this list. If anyone can beat

almost 2 straight months of removing re-installing mags, test flying, and

nursing a piss ant engine back onto the ground after 15-20 min flight that

started out great, let me know! Part of the problem was no matter how many

times you set the timing on a M-9F centriple advance mag on a standard M14,

you are not going to have a pleasant flight! That all thanks to some ass

hole in RU scrubbing the embossing off the mag and selling it as a standard

mag. Not to add that the coils that came with the original mags were shot

too!

So, after getting my newly rebuilt engine, hanging it, and experiencing

misfires due to the very new RU wiring harness it has left a definite bad

taste in my mouth. I would not put a cigarette conversion on. I will change

the entire wire harness and plug adapter instead and throw the 18 RU plugs

or Chinese plugs in the Coosa River.

Sorry being so vehement in my response. Maybe that system will work for

others but I have serious doubts.

Doc



--

brian-1927(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:53 am Post subject: Automotive plugs

On Nov 12, 2007, at 7:13 AM, viperdoc wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   So, after getting my newly rebuilt engine, hanging it, and  

 experiencing

 misfires due to the very new RU wiring harness it has left a  

 definite bad

 taste in my mouth. I would not put a cigarette conversion on. I  

 will change

 the entire wire harness and plug adapter instead and throw the 18  

 RU plugs

 or Chinese plugs in the Coosa River.

 Sorry being so vehement in my response. Maybe that system will work  

 for

 others but I have serious doubts.


	


The plugs in my first CJ (running mostly on mogas) went for over 500  

hours. The only reason I changed them is that they had 500 hours on  

'em, not because they weren't serviceable. Other than setting the  

point gap, setting the timing, and inspecting the plugs, I didn't  

need to do any maintenance. So I suspect you will find all sorts of  

stories out there on the stock ignition systems.



But let's look at it another way. The ignition on the Huosai and M14P  

is straight out of the 1920's, well maybe 1930's in the case of a few  

of the mags with centrifugal advance. In the mean time the automotive  

industry has come up with much more reliable solutions with plug life  

running to 100,000 mi. Kinda makes you wonder, no? But one of the  

things you notice is that they abandoned shielded plug wires a long  

time ago. It is also interesting to note that a lot of experimental  

aircraft are also going to silicone wires with a coil-per-plug  

electronic ignition. They are seeing substantial performance  

improvements too.



Oh, and the silicone resistor wires are easier to maintain.



I guess you get to make a decision.



--

Brian Lloyd                         3191 Western Drive

brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com    Cameron Park, CA 95682

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry



PGP key ID:          12095C52A32A1B6C

PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:40 am Post subject: Automotive plugs

It has already been made my friend! Cough, spit, sputter, and they are out

of there! Dennis has a kit sitting on the shelf for me when it does! I'll

ride this horse until she starts to buck.

Doc



--

rvfltd(at)televar.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:44 am Post subject: Automotive plugs

And 3)  Chinese DZ5 plugs work great in the M14P, come with all the 

copper washers and a go / no go gapping tool in each hermetically sealed 

package of 10 factory new plugs. Price is $20.00 per plug.

Always Yakin,

Doug

Cliff Coy wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Two things about the auto plug conversion that isn't going to help you 

 at all Chanock -grin-

 1) Jill & Carl will have their automotive sparkplug adapters available 

 in about a month or two.  These will be a direct replacement for the 

 current plugs without any change to the ignition harness.

 2) Champion Aerospace has completed testing of the RVL-38S and will 

 make them for sale in the beginning of next year.  These are a fine 

 wire direct replacement for current Russian plugs.  The test reports 

 from the Romanian factory, and field tests here in the states are very 

 positive.  They're gonna be pricey, but will outlast a Russian plug 

 better than 2 to 1.

 Cheers,

 C

 Chanock Richka wrote:

>

> Hi Hi Yakers;

>  

> I am converting my M-14P to Automotive spark plug system. I need some 

> info. for what plugs are best to use.

>  

> Thanks.

> Chanock

> Born to fly, Forced to work

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! Get 'em! 

> <http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us>

> *

> *

brian-1927(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:20 am Post subject: Automotive plugs

On Nov 12, 2007, at 9:38 AM, Roger Kemp wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com>



 It has already been made my friend! Cough, spit, sputter, and they  

 are out

 of there! Dennis has a kit sitting on the shelf for me when it  

 does! I'll

 ride this horse until she starts to buck.


	


Dennis has made a coil-per-plug electronic ignition? I thought he had  

made a wire kit. Regardless, the silicon-wire-automotive-plug kit  

would be a huge advantage over the old plug-and-wire approach.



--

Brian Lloyd                         3191 Western Drive

brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com    Cameron Park, CA 95682

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry



PGP key ID:          12095C52A32A1B6C

PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:33 am Post subject: Automotive plugs

Doug,

Not trying to be an ass but this sounds like it. God knows you have helped

me a bunch in the past but...at 10 bucks a plug X 18 plugs you are talking

$360. Add about $40 to it and you have the cost of the conversion kit plus

the new champion motorcycle plugs or NGk's.

I know the installation is a pain in the but. Once done though, the cost is

about $48 for the entire set of new NGK's with the next annual. You just

throw the others away or give them to some kid that is riding a crotch

rocket. But he only needs 2 to 4 of them.

Now for those that your CAA will not let you do the auto plug conversion,

Doug's got a good deal there. Sorry!



:>))

Doc



--

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:34 am Post subject: Automotive plugs

His is a plug wire kit with the first set of 18 plugs included. No he has

not made a coil per plug conversion kit to date.

Doc



--

rvfltd(at)televar.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:51 am Post subject: Automotive plugs

Roger,

 I never did say there was any thing wrong with the auto plugs, just said there is yet another choice other than paying the big price for the Champions.  

 

 Hopefully you don't do your own billings..... do you??  ;o)

 

 Always Yakin,

 Doug

 

 viperdoc wrote:

 [quote]   [quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "viperdoc" <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com> (viperdoc(at)mindspring.com)  Doug, Not trying to be an ass but this sounds like it. God knows you have helped me a bunch in the past but...at 10 bucks a plug X 18 plugs you are talking $360. Add about $40 to it and you have the cost of the conversion kit plus the new champion motorcycle plugs or NGk's. I know the installation is a pain in the but. Once done though, the cost is about $48 for the entire set of new NGK's with the next annual. You just throw the others away or give them to some kid that is riding a crotch rocket. But he only needs 2 to 4 of them. Now for those that your CAA will not let you do the auto plug conversion, Doug's got a good deal there. Sorry!  :>)) Doc  --

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject: Automotive plugs

See what you mean! Duh!  

And no I have a billing manager….with as complicated as 3rd party insurance and Medicare has become…I’m not smart enough!  

Sorry Doug saw the $10 wrote the $ 10  but $? Don’t know where that one got pulled out of a damp dark place. How I converted 180 to 360 ? Well,yeah I do it you multiply x 2!  

Anybody need 36 chinese plugs….Doug has them for a good price!JJ  

Doc  

       

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Sapp

 Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 12:52 PM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Automotive plugs  

  

  

   

Roger,

 I never did say there was any thing wrong with the auto plugs, just said there is yet another choice other than paying the big price for the Champions.  

 

 Hopefully you don't do your own billings..... do you??  ;o)

 

 Always Yakin,

 Doug

 

 viperdoc wrote:

 

    	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "viperdoc" <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com> Doug,Not trying to be an ass but this sounds like it. God knows you have helpedme a bunch in the past but...at 10 bucks a plug X 18 plugs you are talking$360. Add about $40 to it and you have the cost of the conversion kit plusthe new champion motorcycle plugs or NGk's.I know the installation is a pain in the but. Once done though, the cost isabout $48 for the entire set of new NGK's with the next annual. You justthrow the others away or give them to some kid that is riding a crotch 	
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PeteAbbott(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:35 pm Post subject: Automotive plugs

Doc's are never good with math!!

  

 That is why they like the 52's, all percentages!

  

 Pete



See what's new a [quote][b]

dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:15 pm Post subject: Automotive plugs

Chanock,

 Go to my web site, www.yak-52.com, and click on  MODIFICATIONS.  There you will find a link to the conversion and also a  download of the complete installation instructions.  I have the kits in  stock.

 Dennis

  

 [quote]   ---

dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:20 pm Post subject: Automotive plugs

The problem with the ignition system on the M14 is not the plugs.  It is and 

has always been the ignition harness.  Russian or Chinese plugs typically 

last 300-400 hours.  When you replace the harness with the 8 mm silicon 

wires that come in my kit (sorry for the advertisement), you eliminate the 

ignition harness problem forever and you can replace plugs at a cost of $36 

for the set.  I'll bet the new Champion plug will be $36 EACH.  Heck, their 

REL37B's are almost that much already!  What do you think a new specialty 

plug will cost?  Just read what people have said about the conversion kit 

and installation on my web site.  www.yak-52.com.

Dennis



---

dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:26 pm Post subject: Automotive plugs

Sorry Brian.  It's not a coil/plug kit.  I wish it was!  It's just a 

replacement harness with the latest and greatest automotive plug wire 

technology.  Anyone interested in reading how these 8 mm hi-tech racing 

wires suppress noise, you can read all about it on my web site 

www.yak-52.com, under MODIFICATIONS.

Dennis



---

pa3arw(at)euronet.nl
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:54 pm Post subject: Automotive plugs

Dennis,  

   

What’s wrong with your website? I cannot get on your website…I get something like aplus.net????  

   

Hans  

         

  

Van: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] Namens A. Dennis Savarese

 Verzonden: maandag 12 november 2007 22:13

 Aan: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Onderwerp: Re: Yak-List: Automotive plugs  

  

     

Chanock,  

    

Go to my web site, www.yak-52.com, and click on MODIFICATIONS.  There you will find a link to the conversion and also a download of the complete installation instructions.  I have the kits in stock.  

    

Dennis  

    

   

  [quote]    

---

dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:09 pm Post subject: Automotive plugs

Wow!  Thanks for letting me know.  I'll find out  what's going on.

 Dennis

  

 [quote]   ---

brian-1927(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:25 pm Post subject: Automotive plugs

On Nov 12, 2007, at 1:24 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.com>



 Sorry Brian.  It's not a coil/plug kit.  I wish it was!  It's just  

 a replacement harness with the latest and greatest automotive plug  

 wire technology.  Anyone interested in reading how these 8 mm hi- 

 tech racing wires suppress noise, you can read all about it on my  

 web site www.yak-52.com, under MODIFICATIONS.


	


Are you doing it for the Housai engines too? I would assume the kit  

would work for both J1A and M14P.



--

Brian Lloyd                         3191 Western Drive

brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com    Cameron Park, CA 95682

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry



PGP key ID:          12095C52A32A1B6C

PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:32 pm Post subject: Automotive plugs

I have to agree with Dennis.  I chased problems with my M14P ignition  system for hundreds of hours.  It turned out that the harness itself was  breaking down.  The harness as it comes, is pre WW2.   Advanced for its time.  But insulation on the wire breaks down with  time.  It will short though small cracks in the insulation, particularly  when any moisture gets in.  When you were able to definitely identify a  problem in one wire, its was a bitch to change out.  I once change all the  wires in the harness with a "super great" 5mm wire from Savage Magneto.  I  spent 2 days at it.  Than it turned out that in pulling the wires though  the harness ring, caused small cuts in the insulation as it turned around the  feed edges.  Less than 100 hours later, I started having the same problems,  and again I started blaming the plugs or mags.  

  

 It came to a head one morning at altitude on my way to a RPA airshow event  in IL.  With my stinker muscles contracted, I made a  precautionary landing in Americas, Ga. where a very young  mechanic prove to me that my entire problem was the  harness.  It took 4 hours to remove the old setup and it takes 4 hours  (being careful to run the wires correctly) to put on the new.  

  

 The Chinese and Russian plugs are really OK, so are the mags.  If your  harness is new it will be fine too.  But it WILL break down over time, not  just running time, but calendar time.  So if you start having intermittent  problems, speciality with moist conditions, it mostly likely is in the  harness.  

  

 Being able to use cheaper but excellent auto plugs, to me is a secondary  benefit.  Having a reliable harness delivering that spark of life, is worth  it all.

  

 Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

  

  

 has always been the ignition harness.  Russian or Chinese plugs  typically 

last 300-400 hours.  When you replace the harness with the 8  mm silicon 

wires that come in my kit (sorry for the advertisement), you  eliminate the 

ignition harness problem forever and you can replace plugs at  a cost of $36 

for the set.  I'll bet the new Champion plug will be $36  EACH.  Heck, their 

REL37B's are almost that much already!  What do  you think a new specialty 

plug will cost?  Just read what people have  said about the conversion kit 

and installation on my web site.   www.yak-52.com.

Dennis



  [quote][b]

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