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BradG27Z

Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Posts: 3
Location: Marysville, WA

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:31 pm Post subject: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!

I will pay premium dollar for the right A/C!I am still searching for the right 500B or 500S. I am looking for a solid airframe, less than 5,000 TT, NO DAMAGE HISTORY, no corrosion or undocumented repairs. Prefer an A/C that has stayed in the US and well cared for. Time on engines and props not important. Avionics not important. Paint and interior not important. All logs and hopefully hangared. Come on, there's got to be someone out there with a real cream puff that is willing to part. (I am a private individual). Thanks, 

Brad 

360-658-9700[/b]

bobf(at)feldtman.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!

Brad - a couple of us did reply to you. I can't figure out if you didn't get our email, or if you don't get the picture- but I haven't seen any reply, other than basically a carbon copy of your first request..  



bobf



500B



On 11/7/07, BradG27Z <BradG27Z(at)comcast.net (BradG27Z(at)comcast.net)> wrote:[quote] --> Commander-List message posted by: "BradG27Z" <BradG27Z(at)comcast.net (BradG27Z(at)comcast.net)>



I will pay premium dollar for the right A/C!I am still searching for the right 500B or 500S. I am looking for a solid airframe, less than 5,000 TT, NO DAMAGE HISTORY, no corrosion or undocumented repairs. Prefer an A/C that has stayed in the US and well cared for. Time on engines and props not important. Avionics not important. Paint and interior not important. All logs and hopefully hangared. Come on, there's got to be someone out there with a real cream puff that is willing to part. (I am a private individual). Thanks, 

Brad

360-658-9700[/b]





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144484#144484



 



[b]

BradG27Z

Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Posts: 3
Location: Marysville, WA

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:41 am Post subject: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!

I am not interested in your 10,000 or 18,000 hour airframe. I am not interested in an aircraft with a damage history.

rosie

Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 2

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:30 am Post subject: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!

[quote="BradG27Z"]I am not interested in your 10,000 or 18,000 hour airframe. I am not interested in an aircraft with a damage history.[/quote]



Well, my Grandpa left a me a nice plane but the airframe is over 20 hours. 



I am trying to decide if I should learn to fly. 



I was thinking of learning to fly and drop food to the hungry people of the world.



You sound rude, I would not sell to someone so rude.



Manners are important in every situation.

tfisher(at)commandergroup
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:30 am Post subject: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!

Stay clear of this one, there certainly appears to be an attitude problem, 

not sure if he even deserves to own a Commander.

Tom.



---

dowens(at)aerialviewpoint
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:40 am Post subject: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!

here here...





David Owens

Aerial Viewpoint

N14AV

AC-500A-Colemill

dowens(at)aerialviewpoint
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:49 am Post subject: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!

hehehe...OK then.





David Owens

Aerial Viewpoint

N14AV

AC-500A-Colemill

John Vormbaum

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 273
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:48 am Post subject: Re: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!

 	  BradG27Z wrote: 	
		  I am not interested in your 10,000 or 18,000 hour airframe. I am not interested in an aircraft with a damage history. 	




Wow Brad,



Responsive AND polite! Perhaps you should build yourself a Commander from scratch. That certainly is the (only) way to get what you want.



Although I'm also certain that people here will be tripping over themselves to help you. Hold your breath, the replies will be pouring in!



Or, better yet, get yourself a new Cessna 172. It fits all your requirements, and we won't have to deal with you.



/J

nico(at)cybersuperstore.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:42 pm Post subject: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!

It's like wanting to marry at age 50 and looking for a virgin.

--

steve2(at)sover.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:06 pm Post subject: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!

Hold on guys, we need more people posting crazy messages and should be 

encouraging it.



It helps make me look more normal.......

---

rsrandazzo(at)precisionma
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:26 pm Post subject: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!

Wait.....



Is that unrealistic?????



What if she owns a lowctime commander too??



:-p

Robert S. Randazzo

Precision Manuals Development Group

http://www.precisionmanuals.com



On Nov 8, 2007, at 9:35 AM, "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> wrote:



[quote] 

 >



 It's like wanting to marry at age 50 and looking for a virgin.

 --

Cate Chagnot

Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 36
Location: Ohio

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:47 pm Post subject: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!

Hey Guys,



Correct me if I'm wrong here (I'm sure you will).....



Wouldn't a 'Cream Puff' 500S or B of under 5000 hrs possibly have a 

serious spar issue waiting to be found where as over 10,000 hrs, if 

it's still flying it's had any possible spar issues dealt with? 

Though familiar with the issues for my 680E I'm not too sure about 

others.



Cate

N4278S

1959 680E

_________________
Cate

N4278S 680E
Skywagon N180PK

bowing74(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:39 am Post subject: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!

You mean one that is 30 years old and has no RECORDED damage history, since

nobody would ever repair one without telling the FAA. <G>

bilbo



--

Cate Chagnot

Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 36
Location: Ohio

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:00 pm Post subject: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!

No One has yet answered my question; 

 



 "Correct me if I'm wrong here (I'm sure you will).....

 

 Wouldn't a 'Cream Puff' 500S or B of under 5000 hrs possibly have a

 serious spar issue waiting to be found where as over 10,000 hrs, if

 it's still flying it's had any possible spar issues dealt with?

 Though familiar with the issues for my 680E I'm not too sure about

 others.

 



 Any comments?

 



 Cate

    [quote][b]

_________________
Cate

N4278S 680E
Skywagon N180PK

dowens(at)aerialviewpoint
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!

Who's to say??? If the aircraft was hangared all  those years, and the annual had an aggressive anti corrosion effort, coupled  with careful cleaning etc. it might be ok. If it were left outside for a few  years, or flew it's small ammount of time in a salty environment... Then what?  Also I would guess if it were used for survey that could also play into it.  ????

  

  

  

  

 David Owens

Aerial  Viewpoint

N14AV

AC-500A-Colemill

   [quote][b]

steve2(at)sover.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:32 pm Post subject: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!

Cate,

  

 There's a very interesting Australian piece dealing  with the history of Commander spar problems. The author mixes some good data,  along with some speculation that needs to be more carefully  evaluated.

  

 http://www.casa.gov.au/airworth/papers/AeroCommander.pdf

  

 Our 500B has an aluminum strap, versus the later  models with stainless steel. We shouldn't have the same degree of problems as  those with straps of a dissimilar metal. The B might be a better bet for the  long run, but who knows?.

  

 Steve

 [quote]   ---

tylor.hall(at)sbcglobal.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:53 pm Post subject: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!

Cate,The older aircraft before the 500S and 690's do not have major spar problems.  There is an attachment near the leading edge that is an AD and a very old spar strap AD.  The newer aircraft have the inspection every 36 months.  



Corrosion is always a problem with older aircraft.  On the per-1960 680, there is a concern about the landing gear where it attaches to the wing spar.  JB could be more specific about that.



The CASA paper goes into the first spar strap that was an AD to be complied before 2000 TT.  With yours at over 10,000 hours, I would expect it to have been taken care of.



The problem of low time aircraft is the unseen and unknown problems.  With an aircraft that is flown a lot, it has to be taken care of.  If it has flown on part 135 and have 10,000+ hours, someone has been looking at it a lot.



It is the rubber parts that just become old.  Hoses, window seals, boots, wire covering,  and gaskets, just become old and tired.



Tylor Hall



On Nov 12, 2007, at 4:26 PM, Steve (at) Col-East wrote:

[quote]Cate,

 

There's a very interesting Australian piece dealing with the history of Commander spar problems. The author mixes some good data, along with some speculation that needs to be more carefully evaluated.

 

http://www.casa.gov.au/airworth/papers/AeroCommander.pdf

 

Our 500B has an aluminum strap, versus the later models with stainless steel. We shouldn't have the same degree of problems as those with straps of a dissimilar metal. The B might be a better bet for the long run, but who knows?.

 

Steve

[quote]---

John Vormbaum

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 273
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:07 pm Post subject: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!

Steve,



I've read that report numerous times. I agree that there is quite a bit 

of speculation involved, as well as a healthy dose of pessimism. I think 

it's necessary to remind everyone that the incidences of true spar 

corrosion are few, and even if bad, curable. The cure (new spar cap) 

isn't cheap, but it is a one-time treatment!



My 1962 500B with 18,000+ hours on it has no corrosion and has 

repeatedly passed inspections with flying colors. The B models aren't 

subject to the same spar issues as the 500S models, and even so, minimal 

numbers of Shrikes will ever see any spar corrosion. I bet John Towner, 

who monitors this list, hasn't seen any spar corrosion on his 24,000 B 

model.



I think a couple of the airplanes may have suffered from a "bad day at 

the office" by the guys who built them. Missed primer, scratches in 

metal, and other manufacturing errors that aren't inherent flaws in the 

design; add to that a harsh climate (fish spotting, anyone?) and 

questionable maintenance, and you are going to get a couple of airplanes 

with issues.



The Wing Station 24 & Wing Station 39 issues have been conquered via AD 

& inspection. Has there been a wing failure (that dogfighting midair 

doesn't count) since 1968? There was that one guy who dove through a 

level-5 thunderstorm at Vne, up in OR/WA area, but I think that's it. 

That paper makes a bigger deal out of the wing issue than it should. My 

6,750 Lb. airplane has essentially a 12,000 Lb. wing on it. I would have 

to really overload / overstress it to get it to fail, if it's in good 

shape to start with.



Also, why do the failure rates seem so much higher down under? Is it 

because the airplanes are flying upside down?



At least I don't own a Cessna 400-series turbine.....they have absolute 

life limits now!



/J



Steve (at) Col-East wrote:

[quote] Cate,

  

 There's a very interesting Australian piece dealing with the history 

 of Commander spar problems. The author mixes some good data, along 

 with some speculation that needs to be more carefully evaluated.

  

 http://www.casa.gov.au/airworth/papers/AeroCommander.pdf

  

 Our 500B has an aluminum strap, versus the later models with stainless 

 steel. We shouldn't have the same degree of problems as those with 

 straps of a dissimilar metal. The B might be a better bet for the long 

 run, but who knows?.

  

 Steve



     ---

Cate Chagnot

Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 36
Location: Ohio

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:44 pm Post subject: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!

Tylor,



Thanks for the in depth answer. I thought as much. My plane has some 

5400 hours on it. I was asking because of the guy looking for a low 

time Commander and his absolute rejection of anything over 5000 hrs. 

It brought to mind the inspections due and what might be found. I 

think you're right and anything in regular service and well looked 

after is a better bet than just a 'low time' airplane.



Thanks,



Cate

N4278S 680E

_________________
Cate

N4278S 680E
Skywagon N180PK

Cate Chagnot

Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 36
Location: Ohio

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:54 pm Post subject: Premium dollar for the right cream puff!

Steve,



Thanks for that history on the Commander spar issue. I'd run across 

it before but hadn't been able to relocate it. Now the pdf is stored 

on my computer. Something to read while I'm over here working on 

Stirling engines in Korea away from my Commander.......



Cate



N4278S 680E

_________________
Cate

N4278S 680E
Skywagon N180PK

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