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C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc

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RayStL

Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 36

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:28 pm Post subject: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc

C-GJRL finally flew yesterday. It has in-flight adjustable prop. I had done a crow hop on Sunday with the prop at  min pitch and flaps up. That required full back stick to flare with no margin. The min pitch was way too fine… the engine was not being loaded at all and the plane barely hauled itself off the ground.



For the flight yesterday, I set the pitch to midway and took off with half flaps (nominally 15 degrees). That was a much better setting. It climbed well. 



I was pleased with the lightness of the controls and their balance. Used half flaps for landing as recommend for the Pegastol wing. The landing was easily controllable with plenty of stick margin on the flare. 



The aircraft trimmed way too nose down even with max aft trim. It is true that I was near the forward C of G and the forward limit for the Pegastol is set at 10% of Mean Aerodynamic Chord as opposed the standard 701 which is a 20%.



Regardless I will be doing the elevator edge bend removal that others have found useful in these situations.



I am waiting for better weather to fly again. I am in New Brunswick, Canada which had freezing rain today and snow flurries forecast for tomorrow. Sigh.



-- Ray

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Ray St-Laurent
701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc

Congrats on the first flight!



I am just starting but I am pretty much sold on th 1.3l Suzi, for the  price VS claimed performance. Any comments regarding this on your plane?



I am also considering the wing that you are using but initial inquiries are looking to be a little expensive. And as such, I also would be interested in your STOL and cruise specs. 



Best Regards



Kevin

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“Always do what you are afraid to do.”
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"Real freedom is the sustained act of being an individual." WW - 2009

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Dorothy McCune

rroberts

Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 50
Location: Birmingham, AL USA

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:27 am Post subject: Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc

Congrats Ray!  Keep us posted on that 1.3L.  I too have the IVO inflight adjustable but I used the ground adjustable hub for my first flight setting the prop at 10.5 degrees.  Max RPM was about 5400....

Can you send me a photo of how you mounted your hub brushes?



AGAIN CONGRATS     



Rick

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Low & Slow
Rick
www.n701rr.com
www.ricksplace.info

ablebob

Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 11
Location: newfoundland

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:38 am Post subject: Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc

Congrats on your new baby!. Looks real sharp!

I am about 1000 km east of you and just ordered the 701 plans to see if buying the kit or finding the materials is the best way to go. 



Keep us posted. 



Bob Stacey

SockPuppet61

Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 15

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc

What prop is it? Who made it?



What does "Pegastol" mean?

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc

Variable Slat wing see link below



http://web.archive.org/web/20040217134511/www.dedaliusaviation.com/newdedalius/anglais.htm

RayStL

Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 36

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:47 pm Post subject: Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc

Thanks for the kind words guys. I had hoped to be able to report more at this time but I have not been able to get another flight in yet. The weather just is not cooperating. I was very, very tempted to day but it I there was a 15 knot cross wind with gusts to 25. Not a good idea for a second flight.



I won’t be able to get back to flying until Friday (weather permitting).



I’ll try to answer your questions as best as I can for now and will get proper answers as soon as I can.



The most significant Raven engine mods are to the intake and exhaust manifolds. The oil pan is also changed to a ‘saddle bag’ design so the engine can be flipped to run on its side. 



So far I like the Suzi engine. Stay tuned for updates.



I too am interested in the stol and cruise specs. One requirement I had when I started this project was to get a 100 mph cruise speed. That is the main reason I went to the Pegastol wing over the standard 701 wing. But it remains an untested theory with the Suzi engine.  



I must confess that I was a bit overwhelmed on the first flight so I did not get a chance to monitor all the instruments the way they should have been. I am using a Stratomaster Ultra frpo my instrumentation. It records flight time and top speed. It tells me I reached 87 mph indicated. I know the engine was running somewhere in the 4k (4000 to 4999) range but that is all I am sure. And I still need to calibrate the asi too. Next flight. I am hopeful since the prop pitch is certainly was not optimized for cruise.



I mounted the hub brush holder on the end of a threaded rod that ran back to a bracket that supported the prop shaft. Jam nuts at both ends. I will get a picture. 



I really like your cowling, Rick and the cooling pod.



I am using an Ivoprop in-flight adjustable, light. http://www.ivoprop.com/.  The engine was smooth with no prop. It was smooth with the Ivo prop. I was happy and relieved.



Pegastol comes from combining the flying horse Pegasus and Stol. The company was Dedalius (French version of Dedalus) Aviation From Sherbrooke, Quebec. I guess they were big on Greek mythology. 



 -- ray

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Ray St-Laurent
701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine

SockPuppet61

Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 15

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc

It will be interesting to see if the performance you get is similar to Dedaleus' advertised figures. Such an option would be pretty appealing if you did want to cruise slightly faster.



I note their Vne is 15 faster than the CH701. Would it be the case that, while their wing might have a Vne listed at 125 (vs 701 at 110), one still would have to observe the 701 Vne because of the control surfaces at the back and the control cable design?



I don't know how Vne is estimated / deduced / experimentally determined.

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:15 am Post subject: Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc

I believe that the Vne is primarily a function of the wing attachment points. And that due to the higher drag of the stock wing the 701 has a Vne of 110. If you put a lower drag wing on the Vne would defiantly increase. But the whole 15mph to 125. I'd doubt it, as other things on the airframe may have a Vne of 115, like the horizontal or vertical controls( just a for instance)? These also are important to a safe flight.  



I could be all wet  but I did ask this question of higher Vne to the soon to be new MFG of the wing. He pretty much laughed at my question and politely side stepped it after saying that he had never heard of a higher Vne for the 701 with this wing attached



Kevin

RayStL

Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 36

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc

Vne is based on either aircraft structural limitations or instability limitations whichever comes first. The original Pegastol manufacturer, Dedalius, based the Vne calculation on the assumption that the wing was the limiting factor. I have attached their stress calculations. I have some reservations with some of their statements and talked to them about them. It is possible of the tail to be the limiting factor for Vne bit I don’t think that is the usual case. The load on the elevator/stabilizer will depend somewhat on where the C of G is. Near the aft end of the C of G limit will have the tail under lower stresses than of the C of G is further forward.



Their claim is essentially that it is designed to handle the more severe ‘utility’ requirements rather than the ‘normal’ requirements met by the 701 or Cessna 172 for example. That claim was partly based on the adoption of recommended design changes that in some cases never happened. For instance, the bolt diameter of the front wing attachment root wing was supposed have been increased over the original, as used by Zenith. That did not happen, nor could it have without increasing the size if the wing pickup flanges in the Zenith cabin frame. 



I was a bit disappointed when I discovered these discrepancies after going through their analyses. The bottom line for me is that I do not consider the wing system to be designed to the utility category requirements. The weakest links in their design still satisfy the normal category even at 125 mph (assuming no stability problems).



-- ray

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Ray St-Laurent
701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine

rroberts

Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 50
Location: Birmingham, AL USA

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: C-GJRL finally flies: CH701 Pegastol, Suzuki 1300 cc

Ray,



Send me an email at n701rr(at)yahoo.com.  I need to share something with you.



Thanks,

Rick

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Rick
www.n701rr.com
www.ricksplace.info

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