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Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.

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Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:46 am Post subject: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.

Has any one done this in a 601XL? Anyone see any reason not to?



Pros-

No need for the counter balance cable.

Positive control connection.



Cons

Weight 

Loss of control pressure balance between ailerons and rudder and elevator.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:48 am Post subject: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.

Gig,



I laid out the geometrics and it is a straight shot, along the centerline of the wing spar, from the control rod bellcrank connection to the aileron bellcrank connection. It would be a little over 8' long; so the only unknown (to me) is the size of rod that would be required.  Maybe one of the aeronautical engineers on board could determine that for you. Sounds do-able.



Jay in Dallas  601XL N2630J

"Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Has any one done this in a 601XL? Anyone see any reason not to?



Pros-

No need for the counter balance cable.

Positive control connection.



Cons

Weight 

Loss of control pressure balance between ailerons and rudder and elevator.



--------

W.R. &quot;Gig&quot; Giacona

601XL Under Construction

See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147722#147722

bill_dom(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:01 pm Post subject: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.

I have not done it but I'm been entertaining the idea of having cables running from the aileron bellcrank to another bellcrank in rib #1 and then a pushrod from the bellcrank in rib #1 to the aileron torque tube horn 6B17-4. 



My reason for this is because I would like to be able to remove/attach the wings without having to go inside the fuselage and deal with the aileron cables. 



When removing the wing, this mod will allow disconnection of the ailerons by just  removing the pushrod from the bellcrank in rib #1. This will require a slotted opening in the fuselage to allow clearance for the bellcrank to move, a boot could cover this opening from the inside.



Of course, if I decide pursuing this route I will submit it to ZAC for approval.



William Dominguez

Zodiac 601XL Plans

Miami Florida



 

Gig Giacona <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> [quote][b]

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.

Gig,

The "rod" would have to be a tube at 8 feet, but more a concern would be 

the support and attachment of the bellcrank designed for a pull-pull 

rather than a push-pull arrangement.  That has greater implications for 

failure, long term.  The other is the length of the tube and the 

frequency of vibration it may acquire from the aircraft.

The lesser problem swinging an arc with a tube of proper diameter, ( 

3/4" diameter or more) would likely encroach on the clearance inside.  

Simplicity is always better and cable is simple.  I believe "being 

do-able" and "a better alternative" are not the same thing here.

Larry McFarland  601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

Jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Gig,

 I laid out the geometrics and it is a straight shot, along the centerline of the wing spar, from the control rod bellcrank connection to the aileron bellcrank connection. It would be a little over 8' long; so the only unknown (to me) is the size of rod that would be required.  Maybe one of the aeronautical engineers on board could determine that for you. Sounds do-able.

 Jay in Dallas  601XL N2630J

> Has any one done this in a 601XL? Anyone see any reason not to?

>

> Pros-

> No need for the counter balance cable.

> Positive control connection.

>

> Cons

> Weight 

> Loss of control pressure balance between ailerons and rudder and elevator.

>

> --------

> W.R. &quot;Gig&quot; Giacona

> 601XL Under Construction

> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

>

Dave Nixon

Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 25

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.

I am just about 3 weeks away from hanging the wings, and when I do, it will be with an aileron push rod system.  I already have the rod and ends.  I had two left hand thread and two right hand thread rod ends milled for 1/4" bolts.  if anyone is interested, I can send pictures of the installation.  I am just finishing up the engine installation.  then I can finish the canopy and finally install the wings.  Then call for Airworthiness inspection.  Should be done by the end of the year, if progress continues at the current pace. 



Dave Nixon 

CH601XL Jabiru 3300

90% done / 90% To Go

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:02 am Post subject: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.

Unless I am mistaken ALL zenith rod ends are right hand threads???? It's  been a year since I rigged up the 601xl but I will check this. I think they  do this so they can't unscrew. From what I remember the only adjustments are in  the turn buckles. If you have one left hand thread and one right they can  come apart and you wouldn't know it until (In terms of rigging and cable  tension) they came apart. Also because they are right hand thread you  don't have to safety wire them. If you have left and right you will have to  safety wire them and that could be a pain.

 If I am wrong about this someone please speak up.

  

  

 Jeff

  

  In a message dated 11/22/2007 10:41:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  adnasap(at)bellsouth.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Nixon"    <adnasap(at)bellsouth.net>



I am just about 3 weeks away from hanging    the wings, and when I do, it will be with an aileron push rod system.  I    already have the rod and ends.  I had two left hand thread and two right    hand thread rod ends milled for 1/4" bolts.  if anyone is interested, I    can send pictures of the installation.  I am just finishing up the engine    installation.  then I can finish the canopy and finally install the    wings.  Then call for Airworthiness inspection.  Should be done by    the end of the year, if progress continues at the current pace. 



Dave    Nixon 

CH601XL Jabiru 3300

90% done / 90% To Go





Read    this topic online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148017#148017

	




Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.

  [quote][b]

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:03 am Post subject: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.

Forget that last post it is early and I couldn't see the complete subject  line.

  

  In a message dated 11/22/2007 10:41:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  adnasap(at)bellsouth.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Nixon"    <adnasap(at)bellsouth.net>



I am just about 3 weeks away from hanging    the wings, and when I do, it will be with an aileron push rod system.  I    already have the rod and ends.  I had two left hand thread and two right    hand thread rod ends milled for 1/4" bolts.  if anyone is interested, I    can send pictures of the installation.  I am just finishing up the engine    installation.  then I can finish the canopy and finally install the    wings.  Then call for Airworthiness inspection.  Should be done by    the end of the year, if progress continues at the current pace. 



Dave    Nixon 

CH601XL Jabiru 3300

90% done / 90% To Go





Read    this topic online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148017#148017

	




Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.

  [quote][b]

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:53 am Post subject: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.

If you truly have short enough engagement to allow useful adjustment, then R/H to R/H can come loose - the one end simply backs down in to the other and separates. Safety everything! The only reason for R/H - L/H over R/H - R/H (in my opinion) is that you do not have to disassemble to make adjustments.



Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:[quote]     Unless I am mistaken ALL zenith rod ends are right hand threads???? It's  been a year since I rigged up the 601xl but I will check this. I think they  do this so they can't unscrew. From what I remember the only adjustments are in  the turn buckles. If you have one left hand thread and one right they can  come apart  and you wouldn't know it until (In terms of rigging and cable  tension) they came apart. Also because they are right hand thread you  don't have to safety wire them. If you have left and right you will have to  safety wire them and that could be a pain.

 If I am wrong about this someone please speak up.

  

  

 Jeff

  

  In a message dated 11/22/2007 10:41:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  adnasap(at)bellsouth.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Nixon"    <adnasap(at)bellsouth.net>



I am just about 3 weeks away from hanging    the wings, and when I do, it will be with an aileron push rod system.  I    already have the rod and ends.  I had two left hand thread and two right     hand thread rod ends milled for 1/4" bolts.  if anyone is interested, I    can send pictures of the installation.  I am just finishing up the engine    installation.  then I can finish the canopy and finally install the    wings.  Then call for Airworthiness inspection.  Should be done by    the end of the year, if progress continues at the current pace. 



Dave    Nixon 

CH601XL Jabiru 3300

90% done / 90% To Go





Read    this topic online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148017#148017

	




Get easy, one-click access to your favorites.    [quote][b]

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:08 am Post subject: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.

If you cut the rods to the correct length they can't back out. They come  within a 1/16 if an inch of bottoming out so even if it did come loose it would  bottom the other end and still be safe. No need to safety unless you cut the  threaded rods too short. On RH RH only.

  

  In a message dated 11/23/2007 7:53:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  If you    truly have short enough engagement to allow useful adjustment, then R/H to R/H    can come loose - the one end simply backs down in to the other and separates.    Safety everything! The only reason for R/H - L/H over R/H - R/H (in my    opinion) is that you do not have to disassemble to make    adjustments.



Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:     	  Quote: 	
		            Unless I am mistaken ALL zenith rod ends are right hand threads????      It's been a year since I rigged up the 601xl but I will check this. I      think they do this so they can't unscrew. From what I remember the only      adjustments are in the turn buckles. If you have one left hand thread      and one right they can come apart and you wouldn't know it until (In      terms of rigging and cable tension) they came apart. Also because      they are right hand thread you don't have to safety wire them. If you have      left and right you will have to safety wire them and that could be a      pain.

     If I am wrong about this someone please speak up.

      

      

     Jeff

      

          In a message dated 11/22/2007 10:41:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,      adnasap(at)bellsouth.net writes:

      	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Nixon"        <adnasap(at)bellsouth.net>



I am just about 3 weeks away from        hanging the wings, and when I do, it will be with an aileron push rod        system.  I already have the rod and ends.  I had two left hand        thread and two right hand thread rod ends milled for 1/4" bolts.  if        anyone is interested, I can send pictures of the installation.  I am        just finishing up the engine installation.  then I can finish the        canopy and finally install the wings.  Then call for Airworthiness        inspection.  Should be done by the end of the year, if progress        continues at the current pace. 



Dave Nixon 

CH601XL Jabiru        3300

90% done / 90% To Go





Read this topic online        here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148017#148017

	




     http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List  eb      href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com  ============      [/b]

	
	




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  [quote][b]

daveaustin2(at)primus.ca
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:42 am Post subject: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.

You would not get away with not safetying rod ends  up here in Canada. The Spruce catalog has a diagram showing the acceptable  methods.

 Dave Austin  601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk  VIII

    [quote][b]

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:51 am Post subject: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.

As I recall, all the Rod ends on my kit are installed with jam nuts to 

preventing them from loosening.



Dave Austin wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   You would not get away with not safetying rod ends up here in Canada. 

 The Spruce catalog has a diagram showing the acceptable methods.

 Dave Austin  601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII

 


	


-- 

Bryan Martin

Zenith 601XL N61BM

Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive

Do Not Archive

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

daveaustin2(at)primus.ca
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:33 pm Post subject: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.

Jam nuts are standard.  Still have to safety wire.

Dave Austin  601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII

jeffrey_davidson(at)earth
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:01 pm Post subject: Replace aileron control cables with prush rods.

Jam nuts are standard.  Still have to safety wire.

Dave Austin  601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII



Dave,

	I just installed the aileron control rod on my right HD wing.  The

control rod is threaded the entire length.  The rod end bearings appear to

be MS21153.  The bearing is a universal joint of sorts with a witness hole.

A jam nut came with the rod for each bearing end.  I can't imagine how they

would be safetied.  Can you explain?

	Jeff Davidson

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