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Andy Turner
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 31
Location: Clarion, PA
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 Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:45 am Post subject: Turner Checking In |
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Builder #40784 checking in here. Andy Turner, Clarion, Pennsylvania. I'm far enough into this process to see that I'll be asking more than few questions along the way, so it seems appropriate to say hi before I start asking for too much help. I'm a 2000 hr. private pilot, current owner of a C-172 and a C-140, both of which I enjoy a great deal. My wife Sharon is an enthusiastic aviator as well. We use the Skyhawk for cross-country travel, with several long trips each year, and see the RV-10 as an upgrade over the Skyhawk. On the personal side, I pay the bills by working as a college professor at Clarion University. My research focus is on the ecology of lakes and streams. Thus, I spend a lot of time both working and recreating outdoors. This time of year I spend my spare time hunting in the woods of western PA, so the RV-10 project will receive more attention once deer season is over in 2 weeks.
One question has come up already: I just finished riveting the rear spar of the vertical stabilizer, and found that most of the rivet callouts seemed a bit long. I had a few bent-over rivets, and ended up going with a size shorter for most of the rear spar. I also found that my rivet gun handles the longer rivets better than a hand squeezer does. Am I the only one to find that the rivets called out in the plans often seem too long? Is a pneumatic squeezer less likely to bend-over rivets than a hand squeezer?
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Andy Turner |
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carl.froehlich(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:28 pm Post subject: Turner Checking In |
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Andy,
In most cases, Van's rivet call out are close (if not slightly short) for
1/8" rivets, but 1/2 to 1 size short many of the 3/32" rivets. I have a
couple of pounds of 3.5 rivets left over from my RV-8A and now the RV-10.
Not sure how you are coming up with long rivet call outs.
The rule is use the correct size rivet. If you do not have a rivet length
gauge, get one. Here is a link to Brown Brothers for a rivet length gauge:
http://www.browntool.com/productselect.asp?productid=697
Here is a link for rivet shop end gauges:
http://www.browntool.com/productselect.asp?productid=696
Preventing rivets from bending first starts at using the correct length.
Second aspect is your proficiency with a squeezer. With time you get better
at it. Keep it parallel and steady (hard to do with a hand squeezer). I
strongly recommend you save yourself a lot of pain and get a pneumatic
squeezer now. Get a 3" or 4" yoke, along with the dimple dies and set
assortment. If you really need to you can sell it after you're done for
about what you paid for it (or just keep it for the next RV like I did).
Here are some links to Cleaveland Tool:
http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SNB214
http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SNY40
http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SNKITW
http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=DIEKITW
Good luck,
Carl Froehlich (RV-8A) 375 hrs
RV-10 (wings)
Dogwood Airpark, VA42
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MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:33 pm Post subject: Turner Checking In |
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Welcome aboard Andy!
Re rivet lengths - you are right, some rivet call outs are off by a half
size and Vans generally doesn't include half sizes (except perhaps for
the AN4263 - 3.5?). Clearly, with a bit of patience you can get away
with using the longer size. Or you can get a rivet cutter to cut them
down (too much work when more than 3 or 4 rivets are required). Or
better yet, you can stock a few of the key half sizes. Spruce and
others sell them and they are cheap. I forgot the key sizes to get for
the tail.
I'm grew up in Pittsburgh and used to spend a lot of time in the western
PA woods and streams. Miss them a lot.
Bill Watson
#40605
Durham NC
| Quote: |
One question has come up already: I just finished riveting the rear spar of the vertical stabilizer, and found that most of the rivet callouts seemed a bit long. I had a few bent-over rivets, and ended up going with a size shorter for most of the rear spar. I also found that my rivet gun handles the longer rivets better than a hand squeezer does. Am I the only one to find that the rivets called out in the plans often seem too long? Is a pneumatic squeezer less likely to bend-over rivets than a hand squeezer?
--------
Andy Turner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148104#148104
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ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:51 pm Post subject: Turner Checking In |
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Andy,
Make sure that the rivet is really too long or not, 1.5 the diameter of protrusion is a good rule of thumb. I found Vans had short callouts more than long in almost all cases. The 470 rivets tend to be more of a challenge, make sure you are applying force dead straight onto the rivet, any side force will bend that puppy in a minute. I used a pnemumatic squeezer from start to finish, I would not trade it for the world. It's worth every penny. When you run into a situation where it appears the rivet may be too long as per the callout, step back and make sure you haven't missed a doubler or another part in the sequence of assembly, I heard of others doing this and I also hear some people have to drill out a bad rivet once in awhile. Not me though, it's been perfect from the beginning... heh heh...
Rick Sked
40185
bleeding brakes...
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:28 am Post subject: Turner Checking In |
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Andy,
First, Welcome! It'll be great to have you (and your wife) involved
in the group. You definitely will enjoy your RV-10 more than the
Skyhawk once you're done....I'd have to bet you on that.
Regarding the rivets, I'd have to echo your other 2 replies.
I've found Van's callouts to usually be on the short side,
not the long. At times it made me wonder how they chose the
size they did....did they do it to save weight? (That's
humor, in case you missed it.)  During the construction
I largely used the rivet callouts per plans, as usually they
were do-able and you could go either way...theirs or
one-half size larger, and be OK with it. There are some
particular instances along the way though that you will probably
put the rivet in and decide you just want a longer rivet,
and as long as you're driving them right, that's fine.
Like the others said, use a rivet gauge for a while and after
a while you'll get an eye for them and only use the gauge
on one ever so often.
The most important part to use care on some of these rivet sizes
is where you have tabs on things like ribs. There are various
methods you can use during the rivet driving, but the trick is
to get the tab to lay flat so that the rivet doesn't expand
between the layers of metal. Usually if you do a good job
on those, the rivet callouts work fine too...those are just
some of the trickier ones to get.
Good luck and that's great that you're willing to dive right in
and ask questions. That's what this place is for.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Andy Turner wrote:
| Quote: |
Builder #40784 checking in here. Andy Turner, Clarion, Pennsylvania.
I'm far enough into this process to see that I'll be asking more than
few questions along the way, so it seems appropriate to say hi before
I start asking for too much help. I'm a 2000 hr. private pilot,
current owner of a C-172 and a C-140, both of which I enjoy a great
deal. My wife Sharon is an enthusiastic aviator as well. We use the
Skyhawk for cross-country travel, with several long trips each year,
and see the RV-10 as an upgrade over the Skyhawk. On the personal
side, I pay the bills by working as a college professor at Clarion
University. My research focus is on the ecology of lakes and streams.
Thus, I spend a lot of time both working and recreating outdoors.
This time of year I spend my spare time hunting in the woods of
western PA, so the RV-10 project will receive more attention once
deer season is over in 2 weeks.
One question has come up already: I just finished riveting the rear
spar of the vertical stabilizer, and found that most of the rivet
callouts seemed a bit long. I had a few bent-over rivets, and ended
up going with a size shorter for most of the rear spar. I also found
that my rivet gun handles the longer rivets better than a hand
squeezer does. Am I the only one to find that the rivets called out
in the plans often seem too long? Is a pneumatic squeezer less likely
to bend-over rivets than a hand squeezer?
-------- Andy Turner
\
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