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News alerts "Kitfox " accidents

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Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:49 am Post subject: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents

I didn't get a Google Alert on that one, Dave. Probably because the 

press didn't get involved and it may be just as well.

This is the first bird strike I read about with a Kitfox. Does anyone 

know of any other? Is it a real danger? I was under the impression that 

we fly too slow for, at least, big birds. Would reducing speed be a 

good idea when birds are observed in the area?



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:42 am Post subject: Re: News alerts

Michel , we have extensive bird activity in my area ( SW ontario, Canada) now for a month or so and likely will be for a while yet.  I do a fair bit of flying and seagulls are everywhere.  Alot of Canada Geese too but I find the seagulls more frequent.  I just fly through them when i come across them as I figure they can turn quicker than me and likely  they  are more afraid of a larger "bird" .  I have not hit one yet and hopefully will not.



That  news though just shows you why forced approach training is a real attribute in the event  of an emergency requiring a forced landing.

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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:02 am Post subject: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents

Michel,



Can't answer your question, but I nearly flew into what appears to be a Bald 

Eagle apprpachoing a lake in Idaho a couple of years ago and there is a 

short video clip on the HighWing LLC website go to 

http://highwingllc.com/videoarchivepages/birdstrike.html

The bird's reaction to the "big bird" is typical as I understand.



Lowell



---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:54 pm Post subject: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents

I've had seagulls look inside the plane while flying.  That's as close as is

comfortable.



Noel

Do not archive.



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

akanka(at)kiamichiwb.org
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:52 pm Post subject: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents

Large birds (anything that weighs over a pound) can be a serious problem.

The faster the aircraft, the more damage they can do. 



FWIW, here in Oklahoma (and in Texas as well), there are a lot of turkey

buzzards.  Several years ago (30

plus), I was the pilot of a UH-1 helicopter at Ft. Hood, Texas.  While in a

40 degree bank to the left and looking at the ground out the left side at

about 80 knots, the right front windshield was impacted by a buzzard.  From

personal experience, I can attest that a turkey buzzard is about 10 pounds

of very smelly scat covered with black feathers, and has a bright red head.

I got several small lacerations from that thing landing in my lap, and

thankfully I was flying with a copilot that was on the controls at the time

of impact.  I can assure you that I avoid any bird that I can see if

possible since then.



John Hart   

--

Malcolmbru(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:38 pm Post subject: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents

several times in my old plane I could chase Canadian gees  so  hard they would fly down into wooded beaver flooding to get away from me. it  took some hard turns and a good eye. but moor times than not I  would loose them before that would happen      mal   



See  [quote][b]

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:44 am Post subject: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents

Mal:

 You're  lucky you live south of the 49th.  Up here there are federal laws against  interfering with wildlife in the manner you described.  If you come up this  way just steer clear of the birds and other wildlife.

  

 Noel

 [quote]   

   --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Bob

Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 89
Location: Damascus, Maryland, USA

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:51 am Post subject: Re: News alerts

Real danger?  Usually just as very extensive leading edge or cowl damage, but absolutely!



Per http://www.birdstrike.org/

Over 195 people have been killed world-wide as a result of bird strikes since 1988.

An estimated 80% of bird strikes to civil aircraft in USA go unreported.

Waterfowl (31%), gulls (26%), and raptors (17%) represented 74% of the reported bird strikes causing damage to USA civil aircraft, 1990-2006.

A 12-lb Canada goose struck by a 150-mph aircraft at lift-off generates the force of a 1,000-lb weight dropped from a height of 10 feet.

Starlings are "feathered bullets", having a body density 27% higher than herring gulls.



As for a couple of reports at Kitfox speeds...

Cessna 152 OCT 2003

A Cessna 152 experienced a bird strike, forcing the pilot to make an emergency landing. VMC conditions prevailed at the time. The airplane sustained substantial damage. The airplane was found inverted; a quarter of the windshield was recovered. A bird was found in the airplane. The instructor stated that the student was practicing ground reference maneuvers at about 1,000 feet AGL at an indicated airspeed of 90 knots. While coming out of a left turn, a sudden noise followed by debris was felt in the cockpit. The instructor stated that the airplane was missing the windshield and he could not maintain altitude after applying full throttle. The airplane impacted a field nose first and came to a halt inverted. The instructor and student suffered minor injuries.



From an OH 58 (Jetranger equivalent) helicopter:

We were flying 700 AGL at 80 knots when suddenly there was a loud crash, and the right half of the windshield (pilot side) shattered, sending 80 percent of the Plexiglas windshield into the cockpit where it struck my face and chest. I quickly scanned the gauges and determined that the helicopter was still functioning.



Bob

Vixen partially completed, no engine

Damascus, MD

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Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:25 am Post subject: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents

On Nov 15, 2007, at 2:42 PM, dave wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Michel , we have extensive bird activity in my area


	


On Nov 15, 2007, at 6:00 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I nearly flew into what appears to be a Bald Eagle apprpachoing a lake 

 in Idaho


	


Thank you Dave and Lowell. I will be more on the look out for those 

fellows in the future.



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200



Do not archive

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Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

FlyboyTR

Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Mobile, Alabama

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:16 am Post subject: Re: News alerts

We live on the Gulf Coast in Alabama and have an abundance of seagulls, pelicans, migratory geese/ducks, etc.  Back in 1993 while flying my Quicksilver MX II down the beach of a long sandbar, I was hit in the chest by a seagull.  I do NOT make a habit of flying close to birds...However this one came out of nowhere.  I impacted the ground in a semi unconscious condition...still trying to fly the plane.  Major damage to the plane and just bruising and a cut on my finger.



One thing to remember, NEVER attempt to fly under a bird!  Birds dive to get away (quick increase in airspeed) from a potential danger.  Seldom ever do they go up (while in level flight)...however......



Last year in my Vixen, flying this same stretch of beach with my new supervisor...taking her first "real" airplane flight... All things were going well.  At around 200' MSL (there were no people on the beach of this island/sandbar) and at 110 MPH there were several seagulls that flew up from nowhere.  I caught a quick glimpse of something and before I could do or say anything it/they...hit the prop on the left side of the plane then slammed against the glass on my door.  I have those small swivel vents that have the 1/2 crescent shaped opening on each door... and when open have a small lip that extends outward about 1/2" to divert the air through the opening.  The gull hit the lip and it shredded the carcase...a lot of which blew through the opening and sprayed the cockpit with seagull innards, blood, meat and partially digested fish/minnows.  I throttled back and noted that there was no problem with the flight controls, etc.  When I turned to my passenger...I couldn't believe my eyes.  My new boss was coated from the chest up with the above mentioned particles.  The first thing I told her was..."do not lick your lips!"   She removed her glasses and the "clean" outline was almost perfect around her eyes!  I reached behind the seat, pulled out a towel and she started wiping her face.  It was really a goolish sight.  We work in the healthcare industry so a little blood, guts and stinch was really not all that bad...for us...anyway!



My wife and I worked for over 5 hours cleaning the inside of the plane.  ..it was EVERYWHERE!  ...what a mess!



The next day I noticed a large blood stain on the right wing leading edge at the wing-tip cover.  We had apparently hit more that one seagull.   Yep, bird strikes are real and potentially devastating.



Honestly.....I hate seagulls...and it's obvious they hate me as well...because they are willing to sacrifice themselves to try to get me!

_________________
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website)

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:31 am Post subject: Re: News alerts

you mean one of these.  Hit a little on the prop and then hit the side window, the underside of the wing and then laid rest here.  Note the legs sticking up in the air, kind of cool.   I heard the hit, that was all, never saw it.

bird.JPG

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FlyboyTR

Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Mobile, Alabama

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:40 am Post subject: Re: News alerts

Mike,

Cool picture!  ...much better on the outside of the plane...rather than being shredded and spewed inside through the vent!  My wife just pointed out to me that we did have a piece of wing and leg...we think... jammed between the lift strut and the wind on the right side.



Again...nice pic!  ...all of this sort of gives me a knot in my stomach!

_________________
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website)

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:55 am Post subject: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents

At 02:56 AM 12/6/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  The airplane impacted the Columbia River, which shattered the 

windshield and popped open both doors. The airplane sank immediately;


	


I always wondered if a Kitfox would float very long.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.



Do not archive

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Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:34 am Post subject: Re: News alerts

 	  Quote: 	
		  At 02:56 AM 12/6/2007, you wrote: 

Quote: 

The airplane impacted the Columbia River, which shattered the 

windshield and popped open both doors. The airplane sank immediately; 

 



I always wondered if a Kitfox would float very long. 

Guy Buchanan 

San Diego, CA 

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. 



Do not archive 	




what is bouyant in the Kitfox other than trapped air > ?  

- wood ribs , false ribs

-empty fuel tanks till the pitot allows water in.

- seat cushions?  

-tires   - likely Kingfox a little more bouyant

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:19 pm Post subject: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents

On Dec 6, 2007, at 7:34 PM, dave wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   what is bouyant in the Kitfox other than trapped air > ?

 - wood ribs , false ribs

 -empty fuel tanks till the pitot allows water in.

 - seat cushions?

 -tires   - likely Kingfox a little more bouyant  


	


Buoyancy? I was once considering filling the fuselage with those 

inflatable dolls, you know ...

.. Okay, I'll shut up! 



Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

do not archive

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dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: News alerts

now that would be a you tube Kitfox Video   !!



LOLLLLLLLLLLL

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:52 pm Post subject: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents

Just long enough for the fuselage and wings to fill with water.

  

 



 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents

 From: dave(at)cfisher.com

 Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 10:34:25 -0800

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com>

 

 

 > At 02:56 AM 12/6/2007, you wrote: 

 > Quote: 

 > The airplane impacted the Columbia River, which shattered the 

 > windshield and popped open both doors. The airplane sank immediately; 

 > 

 > 

 > I always wondered if a Kitfox would float very long. 

 > Guy Buchanan 

 > San Diego, CA 

 > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. 

 > 

 > Do not archive

 

 

 what is bouyant in the Kitfox other than trapped air > ? 

 - wood ribs , false ribs

 -empty fuel tanks till the pitot allows water in.

 - seat cushions? 

 -tires - likely Kingfox a little more bouyant  

 

 

 

 

 --------

 Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada

 Flying Videos and Kitfox Info

 http://www.cfisher.com/

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150825#150825

 

 

 

 

 

 

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