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alfolavf(at)online.no
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 Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:44 am Post subject: Dangerous ER fuel tanks? |
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Hi!
Thank you builders for the web adr to the Safe Air1 company who sells ER-fueltanks for RV's. Those tanks looked GREAT!
However; I got an interesting thought from a builder who wrote that these tanks were potentially dangerous.
He said that during spin, the fuel would be sloshed to the outboard end of the fueltank thus making it difficult or impossible to revover from a spin.
OK; so intentionally spins in a RV with partially full ER-tanks isn't something you would do, but some sunny day one maybe could get into an UN-intentionally spin.... and THEN what??
Have anyone some info regarding this?
It would also be nice to hear from someone who has installed the ER-tanks! Was it complicated etc
Not to mention if anyone has done spintesting with those tanks....
Best regards Alf Olav Frog / Norway
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lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:21 am Post subject: Dangerous ER fuel tanks? |
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Alf,
The ER tanks are not made for everyday flying. You have to be a serious cross country RV driver to consider them anyway. Most of your flying time they will be EMPTY. Has your friend performed test on these tanks to prove his theory?
Darrell
Alf Olav Frog <alfolavf(at)online.no> wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi!
Thank you builders for the web adr to the Safe Air1 company who sells ER-fueltanks for RV's. Those tanks looked GREAT!
However; I got an interesting thought from a builder who wrote that these tanks were potentially dangerous.
He said that during spin, the fuel would be sloshed to the outboard end of the fueltank thus making it difficult or impossible to revover from a spin.
OK; so intentionally s pins in a RV with partially full ER-tanks isn't something you would do, but some sunny day one maybe could get into an UN-intentionally spin.... and THEN what??
Have anyone some info regarding this?
It would also be nice to hear from someone who has installed the ER-tanks! Was it complicated etc
Not to mention if anyone has done spintesting with those tanks....
Best regards Alf Olav Frog / Norway
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jamie(at)jpainter.org
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:06 am Post subject: Dangerous ER fuel tanks? |
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I'm not a physicist, but wouldn't throwing the weight of the fuel
outboard actually slow down the rate of the spin...sort of like when an
ice skater extends her arms to slow down or folds her arms to speed up?
Wouldn't this make it easier to recover from a spin????
Just a thought...
- Jamie
http://rv.jpainter.org
do not archive
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gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:13 am Post subject: Dangerous ER fuel tanks? |
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I think the ER tanks are very safe, and like any increase in system complication the responsibility is on the pilot for proper operation and use.
As far as spins with weight at the extremities, such as full tanks in the wing tip two comments:
On any given day I go fly I am 100% sure I can keep my plane from stalling and thus entering a spin. If I had fuel in ER tanks, I would not do Acro, right? (see my first paragraph.)
Last, any weight further from the CG of the plane WILL make spin RECOVERY more difficult. Its like a bar bell with weight on the end. YES it may take more to get the bar-bell started to twirl like a cheerleader baton, but once you get it going, it will want to keep going, being hard to stop it spinning, so it could be possible that IF you had fuel in the ER tanks, IF you forced the plane to spin, you could compromise the ability of the aircraft to recover (ie not enough rudder to over come the spin inertia).
This is called MOMENT of INERTIA. Needless to say don't spin with fuel in the ER tanks and observe Van's arco weight and CG limits and use common sense (see above paragraphs). The plane is not dangerous the pilot is. There are LOTS of planes with wing tip fuel tanks certified by the FAA, but not certified to spin. To claim that the ER tanks are dangerous is ridiculous. There are certified planes who's spin recovery modes are NIL, even with out wing tip tanks. Most light twins are not SAFE to spin nor are they approved, so they are also dangerous? Not spinning is easy if you know how to fly a plane. Planes just don't spin.
In fact a RV might spin and recover fine even with the ER tank fuel, but can't say for sure, and no one else can say either, u nless its flight tested; I am not going to do it and will observe the obvious LIMITATION, "Don't spin with fuel in ER tanks". To say they are dangerous with out some FACTS, is just silliness.
When I do Acro, I am toast after 20-30 minutes max, so I don't think I need extra fuel to do acro.  hahahah.
Rant and rave over 
George
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