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ANL 60

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trumanst(at)netins.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:05 pm Post subject: ANL 60

Bob, I have burned two ANL 60 series limiters in six months. I have no idea why. 

The circumstances were the same both times though. I had just put my engine back on the plane after some maintenance. After start up I excite the field. This has been my method to check that the alternator is working. Both times the LV light has remained on. With no indication of charging. I thought my battery might have been low, but putting on the charger this morning indicated not. Not a huge deal, but at $20 a copy it is getting old. 

Any suggestions? 

Using a 55 amp DN IR alt. with crowbar OV. 



 Kevin Boddicker

Tri Q 200 N7868B  79.6 hours

Luana, IA.

 

 [quote][b]

nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:56 pm Post subject: ANL 60

At 05:05 PM 12/5/2007 -0600, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Bob,

I have burned two ANL 60 series limiters in six months. I have no idea why.

The circumstances were the same both times though. I had just put my 

engine back on the plane after some maintenance. After start up I excite 

the field. This has been my method to check that the alternator is 

working. Both times the LV light has remained on. With no indication of 

charging. I thought my battery might have been low, but putting on the 

charger this morning indicated not. Not a huge deal, but at $20 a copy it 

is getting old.

Any suggestions?

Using a 55 amp DN IR alt. with crowbar OV.


	




    If you have 70+ hours on the airplane, do I presume

    correctly that the system HAS functioned most of

    the time without blowing the limiter?



    Normally, there's but two things that will open

    this limiter. (1) hard fault on the alternator

    side of the limiter. I.e. shorted diodes in

    alternator or shorted wiring between alternator

    and b-lead terminal or (2) battery in backwards.

    or external battery connected to system is

    jumper cabled in backwards.



    If you have an internally regulated alternator

    do I also presume correctly that you're using

    Z-24 with b-lead contactor as the ov disconnect

    scheme?



    Bob . . .

trumanst(at)netins.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:03 am Post subject: ANL 60

 	  Quote: 	
		   If you have an internally regulated alternator

   do I also presume correctly that you're using

   Z-24 with b-lead contactor as the ov disconnect

   scheme?

   Bob . . .

	




Yes I do have the b-lead contactor in line after the ANL 60.I have had no trouble with the system other than this. Happened twice. Both times after engine removal. Seems odd.

The first time I thought it was the alternator, so I took the engine back off and had it checked. The tests came out fine. I think he checked the diodes, then ran it up to check for output. Again fine. After I replaced the ANL 60 things were working smoothly. I did have the engine off during annual, and to trouble with that reinstall when I fired it up.

Not so this time.   

Thanks for your help,



 Kevin Boddicker

Tri Q 200 N7868B  79.6 hours

Luana, IA.

 



On Dec 5, 2007, at 11:54 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net (nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net)>

At 05:05 PM 12/5/2007 -0600, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Bob,

I have burned two ANL 60 series limiters in six months. I have no idea why.

The circumstances were the same both times though. I had just put my engine back on the plane after some maintenance. After start up I excite the field. This has been my method to check that the alternator is working. Both times the LV light has remained on. With no indication of charging. I thought my battery might have been low, but putting on the charger this morning indicated not. Not a huge deal, but at $20 a copy it is getting old.

Any suggestions?

Using a 55 amp DN IR alt. with crowbar OV.

 	




   If you have 70+ hours on the airplane, do I presume

   correctly that the system HAS functioned most of

   the time without blowing the limiter?

   Normally, there's but two things that will open

   this limiter. (1) hard fault on the alternator

   side of the limiter. I.e. shorted diodes in

   alternator or shorted wiring between alternator

   and b-lead terminal or (2) battery in backwards.

   or external battery connected to system is

   jumper cabled in backwards.

   If you have an internally regulated alternator

   do I also presume correctly that you're using

   Z-24 with b-lead contactor as the ov disconnect

   scheme?

   Bob . . .





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 [b]

mprather(at)spro.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:22 am Post subject: ANL 60

It's an internally regulated alternator and you "excite the field"..  By

what means?  Are you just connecting the sense line?

Do you know that the ANL is blown before turning on the alternator?  I

wonder if it's actually being blown out by a bad ground.  I can't

visualize a conduction path at the moment, but possibly the b-lead

represents a ground path during starter operation?

Another thought..  Are you sure it's actually a 55A alternator?  Would a

110A unit blow an ANL60?  Maybe not given the long time constant of ANL's,

and assuming a charged battery.

Regards,

Matt-

 	  Quote: 	
		  >  If you have an internally regulated alternator

>    do I also presume correctly that you're using

>    Z-24 with b-lead contactor as the ov disconnect

>    scheme?

>

>    Bob . . .

 Yes I do have the b-lead contactor in line after the ANL 60.

 I have had no trouble with the system other than this. Happened

 twice. Both times after engine removal. Seems odd.

 The first time I thought it was the alternator, so I took the engine

 back off and had it checked. The tests came out fine. I think he

 checked the diodes, then ran it up to check for output. Again fine.

 After I replaced the ANL 60 things were working smoothly. I did have

 the engine off during annual, and to trouble with that reinstall when

 I fired it up.

 Not so this time.

 Thanks for your help,

 Kevin Boddicker

 Tri Q 200 N7868B  79.6 hours

 Luana, IA.

 On Dec 5, 2007, at 11:54 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

> 

> <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>

>

> At 05:05 PM 12/5/2007 -0600, you wrote:

>

>> Bob,

>> I have burned two ANL 60 series limiters in six months. I have no

>> idea why.

>> The circumstances were the same both times though. I had just put

>> my engine back on the plane after some maintenance. After start up

>> I excite the field. This has been my method to check that the

>> alternator is working. Both times the LV light has remained on.

>> With no indication of charging. I thought my battery might have

>> been low, but putting on the charger this morning indicated not.

>> Not a huge deal, but at $20 a copy it is getting old.

>> Any suggestions?

>> Using a 55 amp DN IR alt. with crowbar OV.

>    If you have 70+ hours on the airplane, do I presume

>    correctly that the system HAS functioned most of

>    the time without blowing the limiter?

>

>    Normally, there's but two things that will open

>    this limiter. (1) hard fault on the alternator

>    side of the limiter. I.e. shorted diodes in

>    alternator or shorted wiring between alternator

>    and b-lead terminal or (2) battery in backwards.

>    or external battery connected to system is

>    jumper cabled in backwards.

>

>    If you have an internally regulated alternator

>    do I also presume correctly that you're using

>    Z-24 with b-lead contactor as the ov disconnect

>    scheme?

>

>    Bob . . .

>

trumanst(at)netins.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:14 pm Post subject: ANL 60

Kevin Boddicker

Tri Q 200 N7868B   hours

Luana, IA.

 



On Dec 6, 2007, at 10:08 AM, Matt Prather wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net (mprather(at)spro.net)>

It's an internally regulated alternator and you "excite the field"..  By

what means?  Are you just connecting the sense line?

	


I have a split rocker "ala Cessna". After start up I "turn on" excite the field.

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Do you know that the ANL is blown before turning on the alternator?  I

wonder if it's actually being blown out by a bad ground.  I can't

visualize a conduction path at the moment, but possibly the b-lead

represents a ground path during starter operation?

Another thought..  Are you sure it's actually a 55A alternator?  Would a

110A unit blow an ANL60?  Maybe not given the long time constant of ANL's,

and assuming a charged battery.

	


It is a 55A DN alt. converted from a Geo Metro.

I "think I have it figured out. Not sure yet. I think the B-lead at the alt contactor is so close to the alum sheet that covers the firewall, or may be touching. If that is so the current could be able to go to ground via the firewall, forrest of tabs, ground lug to engine. I thought this last summer when I had the trouble, but could not find any sign of an arc. The termination is covered with black shrink tube, but it has some cracks in it. I do remember it getting close to the firewall as I tightened it last Sunday night. I also recall moving it away from the FW last summer and not letting it get close this fall after engine reinstall. I will check it out ASAP and let the group know. May be a while it is snowing here, and the forecast calls for more.

The runway has been close since Saturday due to ice. 

Any comments are welcome.   

Thanks,

Kevin

[quote]



  	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		   If you have an internally regulated alternator

   do I also presume correctly that you're using

   Z-24 with b-lead contactor as the ov disconnect

   scheme?

   Bob . . .

 	




Yes I do have the b-lead contactor in line after the ANL 60.

I have had no trouble with the system other than this. Happened

twice. Both times after engine removal. Seems odd.

The first time I thought it was the alternator, so I took the engine

back off and had it checked. The tests came out fine. I think he

checked the diodes, then ran it up to check for output. Again fine.

After I replaced the ANL 60 things were working smoothly. I did have

the engine off during annual, and to trouble with that reinstall when

I fired it up.

Not so this time.

Thanks for your help,

Kevin Boddicker

Tri Q 200 N7868B  79.6 hours

Luana, IA.





On Dec 5, 2007, at 11:54 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"

<nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net (nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net)>

At 05:05 PM 12/5/2007 -0600, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Bob,

I have burned two ANL 60 series limiters in six months. I have no

idea why.

The circumstances were the same both times though. I had just put

my engine back on the plane after some maintenance. After start up

I excite the field. This has been my method to check that the

alternator is working. Both times the LV light has remained on.

With no indication of charging. I thought my battery might have

been low, but putting on the charger this morning indicated not.

Not a huge deal, but at $20 a copy it is getting old.

Any suggestions?

Using a 55 amp DN IR alt. with crowbar OV.

 	




   If you have 70+ hours on the airplane, do I presume

   correctly that the system HAS functioned most of

   the time without blowing the limiter?

   Normally, there's but two things that will open

   this limiter. (1) hard fault on the alternator

   side of the limiter. I.e. shorted diodes in

   alternator or shorted wiring between alternator

   and b-lead terminal or (2) battery in backwards.

   or external battery connected to system is

   jumper cabled in backwards.

   If you have an internally regulated alternator

   do I also presume correctly that you're using

   Z-24 with b-lead contactor as the ov disconnect

   scheme?

   Bob . . .





 	




 	




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  November is the Annual List Fund Raiser.  Click on

the Contribution link below to find out more about

this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts!

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Thank you for your generous support!

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 [b]

mprather(at)spro.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:15 pm Post subject: ANL 60

Sounds like you might have it..  Can you grind the bolt down any and still

get the not and lug on it?  Or dent the firewall a bit with some kind of

round tool (a socket of some sort).

Regards,



Matt-



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Kevin Boddicker

 Tri Q 200 N7868B   hours

 Luana, IA.

 On Dec 6, 2007, at 10:08 AM, Matt Prather wrote:



> 

> <mprather(at)spro.net>

>

> It's an internally regulated alternator and you "excite the

> field"..  By

> what means?  Are you just connecting the sense line?



 I have a split rocker "ala Cessna". After start up I "turn on" excite

 the field.

>

> Do you know that the ANL is blown before turning on the alternator?  I

> wonder if it's actually being blown out by a bad ground.  I can't

> visualize a conduction path at the moment, but possibly the b-lead

> represents a ground path during starter operation?

>

> Another thought..  Are you sure it's actually a 55A alternator?

> Would a

> 110A unit blow an ANL60?  Maybe not given the long time constant of

> ANL's,

> and assuming a charged battery.



 It is a 55A DN alt. converted from a Geo Metro.

 I "think I have it figured out. Not sure yet. I think the B-lead at

 the alt contactor is so close to the alum sheet that covers the

 firewall, or may be touching. If that is so the current could be able

 to go to ground via the firewall, forrest of tabs, ground lug to

 engine. I thought this last summer when I had the trouble, but could

 not find any sign of an arc. The termination is covered with black

 shrink tube, but it has some cracks in it. I do remember it getting

 close to the firewall as I tightened it last Sunday night. I also

 recall moving it away from the FW last summer and not letting it get

 close this fall after engine reinstall. I will check it out ASAP and

 let the group know. May be a while it is snowing here, and the

 forecast calls for more.

 The runway has been close since Saturday due to ice.

 Any comments are welcome.

 Thanks,

 Kevin

>

>>>  If you have an internally regulated alternator

>>>    do I also presume correctly that you're using

>>>    Z-24 with b-lead contactor as the ov disconnect

>>>    scheme?

>>>

>>>    Bob . . .

>>

>>

>> Yes I do have the b-lead contactor in line after the ANL 60.

>> I have had no trouble with the system other than this. Happened

>> twice. Both times after engine removal. Seems odd.

>> The first time I thought it was the alternator, so I took the engine

>> back off and had it checked. The tests came out fine. I think he

>> checked the diodes, then ran it up to check for output. Again fine.

>> After I replaced the ANL 60 things were working smoothly. I did have

>> the engine off during annual, and to trouble with that reinstall when

>> I fired it up.

>> Not so this time.

>> Thanks for your help,

>>

>> Kevin Boddicker

>> Tri Q 200 N7868B  79.6 hours

>> Luana, IA.

>>

>>

>> On Dec 5, 2007, at 11:54 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

>>

>>> 

>>> <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>

>>>

>>> At 05:05 PM 12/5/2007 -0600, you wrote:

>>>

>>>> Bob,

>>>> I have burned two ANL 60 series limiters in six months. I have no

>>>> idea why.

>>>> The circumstances were the same both times though. I had just put

>>>> my engine back on the plane after some maintenance. After start up

>>>> I excite the field. This has been my method to check that the

>>>> alternator is working. Both times the LV light has remained on.

>>>> With no indication of charging. I thought my battery might have

>>>> been low, but putting on the charger this morning indicated not.

>>>> Not a huge deal, but at $20 a copy it is getting old.

>>>> Any suggestions?

>>>> Using a 55 amp DN IR alt. with crowbar OV.

>>>

>>>

>>>    If you have 70+ hours on the airplane, do I presume

>>>    correctly that the system HAS functioned most of

>>>    the time without blowing the limiter?

>>>

>>>    Normally, there's but two things that will open

>>>    this limiter. (1) hard fault on the alternator

>>>    side of the limiter. I.e. shorted diodes in

>>>    alternator or shorted wiring between alternator

>>>    and b-lead terminal or (2) battery in backwards.

>>>    or external battery connected to system is

>>>    jumper cabled in backwards.

>>>

>>>    If you have an internally regulated alternator

>>>    do I also presume correctly that you're using

>>>    Z-24 with b-lead contactor as the ov disconnect

>>>    scheme?

>>>

>>>    Bob . . .

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>

>>

trumanst(at)netins.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:48 am Post subject: ANL 60

Matt,I know there is plenty of room for the wire. I was just trying to make things look nice. I can rotate the termination 180º. I just need to angle it away from the FW. I also think I will apply another piece of shrink tube over the existing one.

Thanks Again,

 

 Kevin Boddicker

Tri Q 200 N7868B  79..6 hours

Luana, IA.

 



On Dec 6, 2007, at 5:54 PM, Matt Prather wrote:

[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net (mprather(at)spro.net)>

Sounds like you might have it..  Can you grind the bolt down any and still

get the not and lug on it?  Or dent the firewall a bit with some kind of

round tool (a socket of some sort).





Regards,

Matt-

  	  Quote: 	
		  



Kevin Boddicker

Tri Q 200 N7868B   hours

Luana, IA.





On Dec 6, 2007, at 10:08 AM, Matt Prather wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather"

<mprather(at)spro.net (mprather(at)spro.net)>

It's an internally regulated alternator and you "excite the

field"..  By

what means?  Are you just connecting the sense line?

 	




I have a split rocker "ala Cessna". After start up I "turn on" excite

the field.

  	  Quote: 	
		  



Do you know that the ANL is blown before turning on the alternator?  I

wonder if it's actually being blown out by a bad ground.  I can't

visualize a conduction path at the moment, but possibly the b-lead

represents a ground path during starter operation?

Another thought..  Are you sure it's actually a 55A alternator?

Would a

110A unit blow an ANL60?  Maybe not given the long time constant of

ANL's,

and assuming a charged battery.

 	




It is a 55A DN alt. converted from a Geo Metro.

I "think I have it figured out. Not sure yet. I think the B-lead at

the alt contactor is so close to the alum sheet that covers the

firewall, or may be touching. If that is so the current could be able

to go to ground via the firewall, forrest of tabs, ground lug to

engine. I thought this last summer when I had the trouble, but could

not find any sign of an arc. The termination is covered with black

shrink tube, but it has some cracks in it. I do remember it getting

close to the firewall as I tightened it last Sunday night. I also

recall moving it away from the FW last summer and not letting it get

close this fall after engine reinstall. I will check it out ASAP and

let the group know. May be a while it is snowing here, and the

forecast calls for more.

The runway has been close since Saturday due to ice.

Any comments are welcome.

Thanks,

Kevin

  	  Quote: 	
		  



  	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		   If you have an internally regulated alternator

   do I also presume correctly that you're using

   Z-24 with b-lead contactor as the ov disconnect

   scheme?

   Bob . . .

 	




Yes I do have the b-lead contactor in line after the ANL 60.

I have had no trouble with the system other than this. Happened

twice. Both times after engine removal. Seems odd.

The first time I thought it was the alternator, so I took the engine

back off and had it checked. The tests came out fine. I think he

checked the diodes, then ran it up to check for output. Again fine.

After I replaced the ANL 60 things were working smoothly. I did have

the engine off during annual, and to trouble with that reinstall when

I fired it up.

Not so this time.

Thanks for your help,

Kevin Boddicker

Tri Q 200 N7868B  79.6 hours

Luana, IA.





On Dec 5, 2007, at 11:54 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"

<nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net (nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net)>

At 05:05 PM 12/5/2007 -0600, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Bob,

I have burned two ANL 60 series limiters in six months. I have no

idea why.

The circumstances were the same both times though. I had just put

my engine back on the plane after some maintenance. After start up

I excite the field. This has been my method to check that the

alternator is working. Both times the LV light has remained on.

With no indication of charging. I thought my battery might have

been low, but putting on the charger this morning indicated not.

Not a huge deal, but at $20 a copy it is getting old.

Any suggestions?

Using a 55 amp DN IR alt. with crowbar OV.

 	




   If you have 70+ hours on the airplane, do I presume

   correctly that the system HAS functioned most of

   the time without blowing the limiter?

   Normally, there's but two things that will open

   this limiter. (1) hard fault on the alternator

   side of the limiter. I.e. shorted diodes in

   alternator or shorted wiring between alternator

   and b-lead terminal or (2) battery in backwards.

   or external battery connected to system is

   jumper cabled in backwards.

   If you have an internally regulated alternator

   do I also presume correctly that you're using

   Z-24 with b-lead contactor as the ov disconnect

   scheme?

   Bob . . .





 	




 	




 	




 	




-- Please Support Your Lists This Month --

(And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)

  November is the Annual List Fund Raiser.  Click on

the Contribution link below to find out more about

this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts!

  List Contribution Web Site:

--> http://www.matronics.com/contribution

Thank you for your generous support!

                              -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

          - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

  --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

              - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

  --> http://forums.matronics.com

 [b]

klehman(at)albedo.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:05 pm Post subject: ANL 60

Hello Kevin

As I understand it you have a 55 amp alternator and a 60 amp ANL. Yes 

the ANL is slow acting but I am not surprised that it would occasionally 

blow under the circumstances you describe. After startup the 55 amp 

nominal alternator could easilly be putting in excess of 60 amps when 

connected to a battery that has been sitting idle for several weeks. 

Personally I'd recommend the next size larger ANL.

Ken



Kevin Boddicker wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Kevin Boddicker

 Tri Q 200 N7868B   hours

 Luana, IA.

 On Dec 6, 2007, at 10:08 AM, Matt Prather wrote:



> 

> <mprather(at)spro.net <mailto:mprather(at)spro.net>>

>

> It's an internally regulated alternator and you "excite the field"..  By

> what means?  Are you just connecting the sense line?

 I have a split rocker "ala Cessna". After start up I "turn on" 

 excite the field.



>

> Do you know that the ANL is blown before turning on the alternator?  I

> wonder if it's actually being blown out by a bad ground.  I can't

> visualize a conduction path at the moment, but possibly the b-lead

> represents a ground path during starter operation?

>

> Another thought..  Are you sure it's actually a 55A alternator?  Would a

> 110A unit blow an ANL60?  Maybe not given the long time constant of 

> ANL's,

> and assuming a charged battery.

 It is a 55A DN alt. converted from a Geo Metro.

 I "think I have it figured out. Not sure yet. I think the B-lead at 

 the alt contactor is so close to the alum sheet that covers the 

 firewall, or may be touching. If that is so the current could be able 

 to go to ground via the firewall, forrest of tabs, ground lug to 

 engine. I thought this last summer when I had the trouble, but could 

 not find any sign of an arc. The termination is covered with black 

 shrink tube, but it has some cracks in it. I do remember it getting 

 close to the firewall as I tightened it last Sunday night. I also 

 recall moving it away from the FW last summer and not letting it get 

 close this fall after engine reinstall. I will check it out ASAP and 

 let the group know. May be a while it is snowing here, and the 

 forecast calls for more.

 The runway has been close since Saturday due to ice. 

 Any comments are welcome.   

 Thanks,

 Kevin



>

>>>  If you have an internally regulated alternator

>>>    do I also presume correctly that you're using

>>>    Z-24 with b-lead contactor as the ov disconnect

>>>    scheme?

>>>

>>>    Bob . . .

>>

>>

>>

>> Yes I do have the b-lead contactor in line after the ANL 60.

>> I have had no trouble with the system other than this. Happened

>> twice. Both times after engine removal. Seems odd.

>> The first time I thought it was the alternator, so I took the engine

>> back off and had it checked. The tests came out fine. I think he

>> checked the diodes, then ran it up to check for output. Again fine.

>> After I replaced the ANL 60 things were working smoothly. I did have

>> the engine off during annual, and to trouble with that reinstall when

>> I fired it up.

>> Not so this time.

>> Thanks for your help,

>>

>> Kevin Boddicker

>> Tri Q 200 N7868B  79.6 hours

>> Luana, IA.

>>

>>

>> On Dec 5, 2007, at 11:54 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

>>

>>> 

>>> <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net <mailto:nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>>

>>>

>>> At 05:05 PM 12/5/2007 -0600, you wrote:

>>>

>>>> Bob,

>>>> I have burned two ANL 60 series limiters in six months. I have no

>>>> idea why.

>>>> The circumstances were the same both times though. I had just put

>>>> my engine back on the plane after some maintenance. After start up

>>>> I excite the field. This has been my method to check that the

>>>> alternator is working. Both times the LV light has remained on.

>>>> With no indication of charging. I thought my battery might have

>>>> been low, but putting on the charger this morning indicated not.

>>>> Not a huge deal, but at $20 a copy it is getting old.

>>>> Any suggestions?

>>>> Using a 55 amp DN IR alt. with crowbar OV.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>    If you have 70+ hours on the airplane, do I presume

>>>    correctly that the system HAS functioned most of

>>>    the time without blowing the limiter?

>>>

>>>    Normally, there's but two things that will open

>>>    this limiter. (1) hard fault on the alternator

>>>    side of the limiter. I.e. shorted diodes in

>>>    alternator or shorted wiring between alternator

>>>    and b-lead terminal or (2) battery in backwards.

>>>    or external battery connected to system is

>>>    jumper cabled in backwards.

>>>

>>>    If you have an internally regulated alternator

>>>    do I also presume correctly that you're using

>>>    Z-24 with b-lead contactor as the ov disconnect

>>>    scheme?

>>>

>>>    Bob . . .

>>

trumanst(at)netins.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:14 am Post subject: ANL 60

Thanks Ken,I was afraid to go much larger. Have no reason to have fear accept for lack of knowledge on the subject. I too thought the battery was low, but when I put the charger maintainer on it, the charged light came on within thirty seconds.

I am rethinking the whole system at this time. I have what some consider ancient tech. Long story, but the guys in the know don't like the drive gear arrangement etc on the case mounted alt that I have. 

I am looking at B&C or Plane Power as replacements.



 Kevin Boddicker

Tri Q 200 N7868B  79.6 hours

Luana, IA.

 



On Dec 7, 2007, at 7:02 PM, Ken wrote:

[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net (klehman(at)albedo.net)>

Hello Kevin

As I understand it you have a 55 amp alternator and a 60 amp ANL. Yes the ANL is slow acting but I am not surprised that it would occasionally blow under the circumstances you describe. After startup the 55 amp nominal alternator could easilly be putting in excess of 60 amps when connected to a battery that has been sitting idle for several weeks. Personally I'd recommend the next size larger ANL.

Ken

Kevin Boddicker wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  



Kevin Boddicker

Tri Q 200 N7868B   hours

Luana, IA.





On Dec 6, 2007, at 10:08 AM, Matt Prather wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net <mailto:mprather(at)spro.net (mprather(at)spro.net)>>

It's an internally regulated alternator and you "excite the field"..  By

what means?  Are you just connecting the sense line?

 	




I have a split rocker "ala Cessna". After start up I "turn on" excite the field.

  	  Quote: 	
		  



Do you know that the ANL is blown before turning on the alternator?  I

wonder if it's actually being blown out by a bad ground.  I can't

visualize a conduction path at the moment, but possibly the b-lead

represents a ground path during starter operation?

Another thought..  Are you sure it's actually a 55A alternator?  Would a

110A unit blow an ANL60?  Maybe not given the long time constant of ANL's,

and assuming a charged battery.

 	




It is a 55A DN alt. converted from a Geo Metro.

I "think I have it figured out. Not sure yet. I think the B-lead at the alt contactor is so close to the alum sheet that covers the firewall, or may be touching. If that is so the current could be able to go to ground via the firewall, forrest of tabs, ground lug to engine. I thought this last summer when I had the trouble, but could not find any sign of an arc. The termination is covered with black shrink tube, but it has some cracks in it. I do remember it getting close to the firewall as I tightened it last Sunday night. I also recall moving it away from the FW last summer and not letting it get close this fall after engine reinstall. I will check it out ASAP and let the group know. May be a while it is snowing here, and the forecast calls for more.

The runway has been close since Saturday due to ice. Any comments are welcome.   Thanks,

Kevin

  	  Quote: 	
		  



  	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		   If you have an internally regulated alternator

   do I also presume correctly that you're using

   Z-24 with b-lead contactor as the ov disconnect

   scheme?

   Bob . . .

 	




Yes I do have the b-lead contactor in line after the ANL 60.

I have had no trouble with the system other than this. Happened

twice. Both times after engine removal. Seems odd.

The first time I thought it was the alternator, so I took the engine

back off and had it checked. The tests came out fine. I think he

checked the diodes, then ran it up to check for output. Again fine.

After I replaced the ANL 60 things were working smoothly. I did have

the engine off during annual, and to trouble with that reinstall when

I fired it up.

Not so this time.

Thanks for your help,

Kevin Boddicker

Tri Q 200 N7868B  79.6 hours

Luana, IA.





On Dec 5, 2007, at 11:54 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"

<nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net <mailto:nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net (nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net)>>

At 05:05 PM 12/5/2007 -0600, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Bob,

I have burned two ANL 60 series limiters in six months. I have no

idea why.

The circumstances were the same both times though. I had just put

my engine back on the plane after some maintenance. After start up

I excite the field. This has been my method to check that the

alternator is working. Both times the LV light has remained on.

With no indication of charging. I thought my battery might have

been low, but putting on the charger this morning indicated not.

Not a huge deal, but at $20 a copy it is getting old.

Any suggestions?

Using a 55 amp DN IR alt. with crowbar OV.

 	




   If you have 70+ hours on the airplane, do I presume

   correctly that the system HAS functioned most of

   the time without blowing the limiter?

   Normally, there's but two things that will open

   this limiter. (1) hard fault on the alternator

   side of the limiter. I.e. shorted diodes in

   alternator or shorted wiring between alternator

   and b-lead terminal or (2) battery in backwards.

   or external battery connected to system is

   jumper cabled in backwards.

   If you have an internally regulated alternator

   do I also presume correctly that you're using

   Z-24 with b-lead contactor as the ov disconnect

   scheme?

   Bob . . .

 	




 	
	




 	




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 [b]

klehman(at)albedo.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:48 am Post subject: ANL 60

Kevin



Well the thing is that the only purpose for the ANL is to prevent a fire 

in the rare case of a short in the alternator or the heavy wire from the 

alternator. The battery will normally supply enough current to blow a 

fairly large ANL.  So the only other consideration is the size of the 

wire (the B lead) from the alternator. That wire is sized to handle the 

current output of the alternator. A problem in the alternator or with 

the wire is almost always a dead short that will flow much higher 

current than the alternator could ever put out and therefore pop a large 

ANL quite quickly before the wire gets hot. Generally the ANL or circuit 

breaker or fuse on the B lead needs to be a bit larger than the 

alternator can ever put out. Perhaps 20% higher than rated.



Even with a fully charged battery I would expect the regulator to 

command max output for a few seconds after cranking. If the rpm 

immediately goes high enough to actually produce max amperage you will 

indeed get it.  Keeping the rpm low for perhaps 20 seconds or so would 

prevent tripping your ANL as the battery rapidly recovers from cranking, 

but I think your symptoms are hinting that a larger ANL is a good idea. 

Good luck with it.



Ken



Kevin Boddicker wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Thanks Ken,

 I was afraid to go much larger. Have no reason to have fear accept for 

 lack of knowledge on the subject. I too thought the battery was low, 

 but when I put the charger maintainer on it, the charged light came on 

 within thirty seconds.

 I am rethinking the whole system at this time. I have what some 

 consider ancient tech. Long story, but the guys in the know don't like 

 the drive gear arrangement etc on the case mounted alt that I have. 

 I am looking at B&C or Plane Power as replacements.



 Kevin Boddicker

 Tri Q 200 N7868B  79.6 hours

 Luana, IA.

nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:37 pm Post subject: ANL 60

At 08:02 PM 12/7/2007 -0500, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Hello Kevin

As I understand it you have a 55 amp alternator and a 60 amp ANL. Yes the 

ANL is slow acting but I am not surprised that it would occasionally blow 

under the circumstances you describe. After startup the 55 amp nominal 

alternator could easilly be putting in excess of 60 amps when connected to 

a battery that has been sitting idle for several weeks. Personally I'd 

recommend the next size larger ANL.

Ken


	


   ANL and ANN series devices are not called "fuses" for

   a reason. The physics of their operation is described

   at:



http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Fuses_and_Current_Limiters/Bussman/ANL_Specs.pdf



   Note that both of the ANL30 devices are infinite carry

   time at 90 Amps! An ANL 60 is infinite carry time at

   somewhere around 130 Amps. These devices are clearly

   intended to avoid nuisance trips due to continuous

   normal current at nameplate rating COMBINED with

   the occasional bodacious inrush current or other

   transient.



   The problem Kevin is experiencing is certain to be

   the result of some "hard" fault somewhere.



   Bob . . .

trumanst(at)netins.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:27 pm Post subject: ANL 60

Bob and others that responded.Today I was able to get the ANL 60 replaced, and checked the B lead wire.

It was indeed touching the firewall and appeared to be grounding out there. Via the aluminum sheet on the FW back to engine ground. I did not fire it up, as it was dark by then and only 20°F. If I have further trouble I will post again.

Thanks for all the replies.



 Kevin Boddicker

Tri Q 200 N7868B  79.6 hours

Luana, IA.

 



On Dec 5, 2007, at 11:54 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net (nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net)>

At 05:05 PM 12/5/2007 -0600, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Bob,

I have burned two ANL 60 series limiters in six months. I have no idea why.

The circumstances were the same both times though. I had just put my engine back on the plane after some maintenance. After start up I excite the field. This has been my method to check that the alternator is working. Both times the LV light has remained on. With no indication of charging. I thought my battery might have been low, but putting on the charger this morning indicated not. Not a huge deal, but at $20 a copy it is getting old.

Any suggestions?

Using a 55 amp DN IR alt. with crowbar OV.

 	




   If you have 70+ hours on the airplane, do I presume

   correctly that the system HAS functioned most of

   the time without blowing the limiter?

   Normally, there's but two things that will open

   this limiter. (1) hard fault on the alternator

   side of the limiter. I.e. shorted diodes in

   alternator or shorted wiring between alternator

   and b-lead terminal or (2) battery in backwards.

   or external battery connected to system is

   jumper cabled in backwards.

   If you have an internally regulated alternator

   do I also presume correctly that you're using

   Z-24 with b-lead contactor as the ov disconnect

   scheme?

   Bob . . .





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 [b]

trumanst(at)netins.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:15 pm Post subject: ANL 60

Bob and listers.Flew today, after repositioning the B lead wire and replacing the ANL 60. 

All systems worked normally!!!!

Thanks and Merry Christmas.  



 Kevin Boddicker

Tri Q 200 N7868B  80.6 hours

Luana, IA.

 



On Dec 8, 2007, at 4:37 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net (nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net)>

At 08:02 PM 12/7/2007 -0500, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net (klehman(at)albedo.net)>

Hello Kevin

As I understand it you have a 55 amp alternator and a 60 amp ANL. Yes the ANL is slow acting but I am not surprised that it would occasionally blow under the circumstances you describe. After startup the 55 amp nominal alternator could easilly be putting in excess of 60 amps when connected to a battery that has been sitting idle for several weeks. Personally I'd recommend the next size larger ANL.

Ken

 	




  ANL and ANN series devices are not called "fuses" for

  a reason. The physics of their operation is described

  at:

http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Fuses_and_Current_Limiters/Bussman/ANL_Specs.pdf

  Note that both of the ANL30 devices are infinite carry

  time at 90 Amps! An ANL 60 is infinite carry time at

  somewhere around 130 Amps. These devices are clearly

  intended to avoid nuisance trips due to continuous

  normal current at nameplate rating COMBINED with

  the occasional bodacious inrush current or other

  transient.

  The problem Kevin is experiencing is certain to be

  the result of some "hard" fault somewhere.

  Bob . . .





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(And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)

  November is the Annual List Fund Raiser.  Click on

the Contribution link below to find out more about

this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts!

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Thank you for your generous support!

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 [b]

nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:02 am Post subject: ANL 60

At 05:19 PM 12/18/2007 -0600, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Bob and listers.

Flew today, after repositioning the B lead wire and replacing the ANL 60.

All systems worked normally!!!!

Thanks and Merry Christmas.


	


   Very good sir! Seems you've demonstrated the

   validity of our faith in installing such devices.

   This one did it's job!



   Bob . . .

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