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RV-6(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:46 pm Post subject: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)

I was helping a friend annual his RV-7 today and he decided he wanted to 

comply due to insurance issues.

It took less than 1/2 hour to do the first tank. A lot easier than I 

expected.

Drilling the nut is no problem if you do it on the end away from the 

threads.

There's plenty of meat there.

sears(at)searnet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:56 am Post subject: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)

 	  Quote: 	
		   I was helping a friend annual his RV-7 today and he decided he wanted to

 comply due to insurance issues.

 It took less than 1/2 hour to do the first tank. A lot easier than I

 expected.

 Drilling the nut is no problem if you do it on the end away from the

 threads.

 There's plenty of meat there.


	


Excuse me; but, I'd really like to know how he did it that quickly.  Let's

see.  One has to gather the stuff to drain the tanks.  Drain the tanks.  Get

the tools gathered to clean the proseal off the screws, etc.  Clean the

proseal off of the screws, etc. to remove the cover plate.  Remove the cover

plate.  Gather the stuff to fix the problem.  Fix the problem.  Mix up a

batch of proseal, after cleaning the areas that are to receive the proseal.

Put the plate back on with the proseal.  Clean up any messes and put away

the tools.  That's if one doesn't have to remove the tanks!   Now, tell me

how he did that in 1/2 hour because I see this taking hours to do.  I may be

missing something.  It's takes me longer than that to clean up and reseal a

leak at the plate, much less removing it and reinstalling it.  



Jim Sears in KY

RV-6A N198JS (Scooter)

RV-7A #70317

EAA Tech Counselor

do not archive

Steve Glasgow

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 674

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:31 am Post subject: Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)

Is there a solvent that will clean the pro seal off?  



Is there a gasket between the fuel sender access plate and the T-408 access plate?

_________________
Steve Glasgow-Cappy
Cappy's Toy
RV-8 N123SG

evmeg(at)snowcrest.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:03 am Post subject: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)

Nope....no solvent will work after it is cured....use a razor blade. There

is supposed to be a gasket between the sender and the access plate...throw

it away and proseal the sender on. That crappy gasket is by far the single

biggest leaker on these tanks. Also put a small smudge of sealant on the

underside of each of the screw heads before you tork them down. It will

squidge out and make a perfect little gasket around the screw head.

Evan Johnson

www.evansaviationproducts.com

(530)247-0375

(530)351-1776 cell



---

bill(at)vondane.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:19 am Post subject: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)

Ok, so when I built my tanks I thought about this and although I didn't 

totally proseal the tube and connector, I did build the anti-rotation 

bracket a little differently...  If I were to do it again I would just 

proseal the whole thing as you should never need to do anything with it 

again...



I built and installed my anti-rotation bracket so that it not only keeps the 

90 degree fitting from rotating, it also keeps the nut from backing off and 

the tube from ever falling off...



So tell me what you all think...  Do any of you think it could ever come 

loose or fall off?



http://www.rv8a.com/tanks/ps4.jpg



-Bill VonDane

RV-8A - Colorado

www.rv8a.com

www.creativair.com

www.epanelbuilder.com



---

Steve Glasgow

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 674

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)

Thanks Evan. The perfect answer.

_________________
Steve Glasgow-Cappy
Cappy's Toy
RV-8 N123SG

rv8ch

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 250
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:49 am Post subject: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)

 	  Quote: 	
		   So tell me what you all think...  Do any of you think it could ever come 

 loose or fall off?

 

 http://www.rv8a.com/tanks/ps4.jpg


	


To me it looks like you're in good shape, Bill.



One side question - the "proseal" on my QB tanks is very

very tough.  The "proseal" I got from Van's is about as

strong as RTV.  Does anyone know where to get the strong

stuff?



-- 

Mickey Coggins

http://www.rv8.ch/

#82007 finishing

do not archive

_________________
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/

cgreimer(at)mts.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:27 am Post subject: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)

I can see why this would be a problem with the flop tube but not with all 

the other flare nuts - most flare nuts don't have a 1 lb hose flopping 

around, attached only at one end. If this were a firewall forward hose it 

would be required to be secured with Adel clamps!



 	  Quote: 	
		  From my perspective, the whole flop tube concept is far more trouble than 

it's worth for anyone other than die-hard negative-G aerobatic flyers. When 
	


I rip into my tank to deal with this, my flop tube is coming off and will be 

replaced with a solid aluminum pickup tube.



The potential for a hung-up tube, this nut loosening issue, and the 

requirement to replace the flop tube periodically add up to too much 

maintenance hassle and risk. (There is at least one report in the RVator of 

an RV-4 with a fuel pickup problem that was attributed to a flop hose that 

had deteriorated and was leaky as a sieve. That time Van's stopped short of 

issuing an SB - I wonder what they would do today?)



Curt

RV-6 C-GACR

375 hours

---

shempdowling2(at)earthlin
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 12:31 pm Post subject: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)

Hey Jim, once you do this the first time, Im sure it will get much quicker. 

Sooooo, how about doing ehhhhh, lets say 3 more rvs 



do not archive



shemp



---

chaztuna(at)adelphia.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:37 pm Post subject: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)

Bill,

  Your design reminds me of the phrase "A snowball's chance in hell"  

Charlie Kuss

[quote]



Ok, so when I built my tanks I thought about this and although I didn't

totally proseal the tube and connector, I did build the anti-rotation

bracket a little differently...  If I were to do it again I would just

proseal the whole thing as you should never need to do anything with it

again...



I built and installed my anti-rotation bracket so that it not only keeps the

90 degree fitting from rotating, it also keeps the nut from backing off and

the tube from ever falling off...



So tell me what you all think...  Do any of you think it could ever come

loose or fall off?



http://www.rv8a.com/tanks/ps4.jpg



-Bill VonDane

RV-8A - Colorado

www.rv8a.com

www.creativair.com

www.epanelbuilder.com



---

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:44 pm Post subject: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)

I guess you haven't looked at the number of mandatory service bulletins 

Lycoming, Piper and Cessna have issued over the years. And Part 91 

pilots mostly ignore them until and if they become ADs. Right up there 

with the dozen mandatory service bulletins Parker Hannifan has issued on 

Airborne vacuum pumps, that all went in the round file.

Do not Archive

bdjones1965 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Not sure about everyone else out there, but I kind of doubt my flop tube is "flopping" around very much at all.  It may shift around side to side a little and maybe once every year or two I'll really botch something and get negative.  Other than that, I'd be more worried about the weight wearing a hole in the bottom of the tank where it's sitting in 99+% of the time.

 

 I find two things really curious.  One is why Van has apparently crossed into the grayness of liability and appears to have assumed some partial role as manufacturer by sending out these Service Bulletins.  This "SB" looks and smells just like one you might get from a *manufacturer*.  And his wording was just too much like that of a manufacturer as well.

 

 Second, speaking of risk, I have several other hose fittings in my plane that *will* cause engine stoppage - maybe I need to safety those as well.  A flop tube connection failure *may* cause stoppage, and should be recoverable by switching tanks.  

 

 This flop-tube item is pretty far down on the priority list for me.  Not to mention that I specifically remember tightening that nut very well.

 

 But now Van's has me concerned about the applicability of my insurance if I don't comply with this overreactive "SB", while not being worried about the airworthiness of my plane.  Gee, I would expect this kind of treatment from Cessna, Piper or Lycoming.

 

 Bryan RV-8

 Houston, Texas

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=15240#15240

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

low pass

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 32
Location: Houston

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:29 am Post subject: Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)

>I guess you haven't looked at the number of mandatory service bulletins 

Lycoming, Piper and Cessna have issued over the years....



I've owned a production plane and have done a good bit of research along the lines of AD's, SB's, etc.  So I'm familiar with this process.   



But I'm not sure I understand your point.  Cessna, Piper, Lycoming and Parker-Hannefin, etc. all have issued quite a few SB's that, IMO, are overly conservative.  This mostly due to the frivolous lawsuits flying around over the last 20 years.  That was my point.



BTW - looks like you caught my post before I decided to delete it and stay out of this conversation.  I'm still thinking about how I'll address this thing.  And I did enjoy a safe, fun afternoon of flying yesterday.



Bryan RV-8

Houston, Texas

lhelming(at)sigecom.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:49 am Post subject: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)

I bought mine from Vans.  When mixed properly, and shown respect for its age 

and the temperature environment it was stored in I had excellent results. 

If kept in an ice box at about 35F it is still usage after a couple years. 

You must of gotten a bad batch.  I would return it to Vans so they can 

decide if you should get a free one.  Vans is very easy to work with and 

fair.  They don't always do what the customer wants, but I can appreciate 

that too because they are trying to keep their costs and our prices down. 

RTV will literally melt/dissolve/become mushy in fuel.



Indiana Larry, RV7 "SunSeeker" 90+ hours flying



"Please use the information and opinions I express with responsibility, and 

at your own risk."

 	  Quote: 	
		   



> So tell me what you all think...  Do any of you think it could ever come

> loose or fall off?

>

> http://www.rv8a.com/tanks/ps4.jpg



 To me it looks like you're in good shape, Bill.



 One side question - the "proseal" on my QB tanks is very

 very tough.  The "proseal" I got from Van's is about as

 strong as RTV.  Does anyone know where to get the strong

 stuff?



 -- 

 Mickey Coggins

 http://www.rv8.ch/

 #82007 finishing

 do not archive

Terry Watson

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 290
Location: Seattle, WA USA

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:44 am Post subject: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)

Van's is selling a new kind of tank sealant with a 4 month shelf life. I

have had a can of the old stuff in my refrigerator for at least two years,

maybe twice that, and every time I use some it seems to work fine. 



Terry

This is from their current web catalog:

Fuel Tank Sealant

Required Sealant for Building Your Tanks

  

Description 



MC-236-B2 (Quart Kit)

The recommended sealer for RV fuel tanks, replaces older ProSeal. Limited

shelf life (approximately 4 months from purchase). Order the Quart Kit when

ready to seal tanks. With careful application, one can should do one

airplane, even the larger RV-7 and RV-8 tanks, but many builders use more.

Includes accelerator.Sealing compound and accelerator are mixed by WEIGHT at

a ratio of 10:1. Save yourself a call. We know that the quart can does not

contain a full quart of sealant. This is normal.

Dale Ensing

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 571
Location: Aero Plantation Weddington NC

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:12 am Post subject: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)

"RTV will literally melt/dissolve/become mushy in fuel."



By RTV I assume you are talking about general purpose room temperature vulcanizing silicone sealants.

Your statement is not true of fluorosilicone sealants. I have two pieces of aluminum bonded together with  Dow Corning 730 RTV sealant immersed in 100LL in a glass jar for 6 years and there is no indication of degradation of the sealant. This is my test piece as I used it to seal wing inspection covers. It will be much easier to remove for the MSB  than the Proseal.

Dale Ensing

_________________
Dale Ensing
RV-6A
Aero Plantation
Weddington NC

chuck515tigger(at)yahoo.c
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:56 am Post subject: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)

Dale,

   

  Where do ya' order the Dow Corning 730 RTV sealant ?   I bent my tank inspection plates tryin' to take 'em off after 3 years of being "Pro-sealed".

   

  Chuck



Dale Ensing <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> wrote:

  



"RTV will literally melt/dissolve/become mushy in fuel."



By RTV I assume you are talking about general purpose room temperature vulcanizing silicone sealants.

Your statement is not true of fluorosilicone sealants. I have two pieces of aluminum bonded together with Dow Corning 730 RTV sealant immersed in 100LL in a glass jar for 6 years and there is no indication of degradation of the sealant. This is my test piece as I used it to seal wing inspection covers. It will be much easier to remove for the MSB than the Proseal.

Dale Ensing



		

---------------------------------

Brings words and photos together (easily) with

lhelming(at)sigecom.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:06 am Post subject: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)

You are correct, I was referring to room temp. vulcanizing.  Which specific 

fluorosilicone sealant are you referring to from the list?



http://www.nusil.com/Engineering-Silicones/Aircraft/AircraftProducts.aspx?SCID=12



Thanks.



Indiana Larry, RV7 "SunSeeker" 90+ hours flying



"Please use the information and opinions I express with responsibility, and 

at your own risk."

---

pbesing(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:47 pm Post subject: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)

Great test, Dale...I look forward to your continued

findings...but, if it were me, I'd bet you won't find

anyting different in another 6 years.  Proseal??



Paul Besing



--- Dale Ensing <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>

 

 "RTV will literally melt/dissolve/become mushy in

 fuel."

 

 By RTV I assume you are talking about general

 purpose room temperature vulcanizing silicone

 sealants.

 Your statement is not true of fluorosilicone

 sealants. I have two pieces of aluminum bonded

 together with  Dow Corning 730 RTV sealant immersed

 in 100LL in a glass jar for 6 years and there is no

 indication of degradation of the sealant. This is my

 test piece as I used it to seal wing inspection

 covers. It will be much easier to remove for the MSB

  than the Proseal.

 Dale Ensing

 

 

 

 



 browse

 Subscriptions page,

 FAQ,



 Admin.

lsbrv7a(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:04 pm Post subject: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)

Dale, Do you mean the tank inspection covers? 

   

  Sherman Butler

  Do not archive



Dale Ensing <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> wrote:

  



"RTV will literally melt/dissolve/become mushy in fuel."



By RTV I assume you are talking about general purpose room temperature vulcanizing silicone sealants.

Your statement is not true of fluorosilicone sealants. I have two pieces of aluminum bonded together with Dow Corning 730 RTV sealant immersed in 100LL in a glass jar for 6 years and there is no indication of degradation of the sealant. This is my test piece as I used it to seal wing inspection covers. It will be much easier to remove for the MSB than the Proseal.

Dale Ensing



Sherman Butler

RV-7a Empennage

Idaho Falls

		

---------------------------------

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail  makes sharing a breeze.

rv8ch

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 250
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:33 pm Post subject: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)

 	  Quote: 	
		   I bought mine from Vans.  When mixed properly, and shown respect for its age 

 and the temperature environment it was stored in I had excellent results. 


	


Hi Larry,



Was your "proseal" in the caulk tube or in the can?



Mine was in the tube.  I've got a picture of the label

here:



  http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040726220023545



-- 

Mickey Coggins

http://www.rv8.ch/

#82007 finishing

do not archive

_________________
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/

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