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Avex Rivets

 
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Jugle



Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 47
Location: Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:02 pm    Post subject: Avex Rivets Reply with quote

Hello all,

I've been looking at the price of rivets on the Zenith site and comparing with those from Aircraft Spruce. The Aircraft Spruce ones are substantially cheaper but are they suitable? They refer to them as Avex Non-structural Blind Rivets, countersunk Part Nos. 1604-0412, 1604-0514 and 1604-0615. Are these the correct type?

I got a quote from Zenith for a hardware box which goes for $425.00 but apparently it doesn't include rivets.

What have you other scratchbuilders done?

Thanks in advance,
Glenn


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:57 am    Post subject: Avex Rivets Reply with quote

Personally, I'm using the Aircraft Spruce rivets.
Haven't had any issues. I belive the rivets that
Zenith sells are from a certain Avex plant and have a
more consistant breakaway of the stem when pulled.

Occasionally, the Spruce rivets do have a slight
protrusion of the broken stem. It happens but not
very often.

Best of luck with your build

Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
NW Ontario, Canada

--- Jugle <glenn(at)eastcoastit.net> wrote:

Quote:

<glenn(at)eastcoastit.net>

Hello all,

I've been looking at the price of rivets on the
Zenith site and comparing with those from Aircraft
Spruce. The Aircraft Spruce ones are substantially
cheaper but are they suitable? They refer to them as
Avex Non-structural Blind Rivets, countersunk Part
Nos. 1604-0412, 1604-0514 and 1604-0615. Are these
the correct type?

I got a quote from Zenith for a hardware box which
goes for $425.00 but apparently it doesn't include
rivets.

What have you other scratchbuilders done?

Thanks in advance,
Glenn

--------
Glenn Andressen
601XL- just started.

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PatrickW



Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:48 am    Post subject: Re: Avex Rivets Reply with quote

dougsnash(at)yahoo.com wrote:
Personally, I'm using the Aircraft Spruce rivets.

I belive the rivets that Zenith sells are from a certain Avex plant and have amore consistant breakaway of the stem when pulled.

Occasionally, the Spruce rivets do have a slight protrusion of the broken stem. It happens but not very often.


I also used ACS rivets. I'd also purchased some A6's from ACS and from one other vendor (at Oshkosh) - the ones from ACS had a more consistent appearance and appeared to be of better quality which compares well with the ones supplied from Zenith. I've only used rivets from Zenith and from ACS. I threw away the ones I got from the other vendor.

As far as the stems pulling off cleanly, I think that's more "luck of the draw". About 1 out of 4 of my Zenith supplied A5's have a sharp tip sticking up.

Run your hand along your wing rivet lines and you'll see what I mean. I'm not too worried about it, but if I were polishing my wings I would be as it would tear up polish pads in short order.

Patrick
XL/Corvair


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Gig Giacona



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:33 am    Post subject: Re: Avex Rivets Reply with quote

That's strange. I've riveted the tail, both wings and most of the fuselage with nothing but the rivets from Zenith and I have never had one that left a tip of any kinds sticking up.

[/quote]
As far as the stems pulling off cleanly, I think that's more "luck of the draw". About 1 out of 4 of my Zenith supplied A5's have a sharp tip sticking up.

Run your hand along your wing rivet lines and you'll see what I mean. I'm not too worried about it, but if I were polishing my wings I would be as it would tear up polish pads in short order.

Patrick
XL/Corvair[/quote]


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:48 pm    Post subject: Avex Rivets Reply with quote

Same with me - and I got mine from Textron, in TO, before production was moved to China.
(This did happen with the cherry q rivets I used on the fuel tanks).
My next batch is coming from Zenith.
Carlos
CH601 HD, plans

On 04/12/2007, Gig Giacona <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net (wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net)> wrote:[quote] --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net (wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net)>

That's strange. I've riveted the tail, both wings and most of the fuselage with nothing but the rivets from Zenith and I have never had one that left a tip of any kinds sticking up.
[b]


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n801bh(at)netzero.com
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:15 pm    Post subject: Avex Rivets Reply with quote

I am going to chime in here. On my 801 I built in 2001 every one of the ZAC supplied Rivets always pulled correctly and out of 14,000+, none ended up with a shank sticking out. The only difficult ones were the Stainless ones used on the firewall. They just broke the air riveter. :<(.
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com

-- "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com>
dougsnash(at)yahoo.com wrote:
Quote:
Personally, I'm using the Aircraft Spruce rivets.

I belive the rivets that Zenith sells are from a certain Avex plant and have amore consistant breakaway of the stem when pulled.

Occasionally, the Spruce rivets do have a slight protrusion of the broken stem. It happens but not very often.



I also used ACS rivets. I'd also purchased some A6's from ACS and from one other vendor (at Oshkosh) - the ones from ACS had a more consistent appearance and appeared to be of better quality which compares well with the ones supplied from Zenith.  I've only used rivets from Zenith and from ACS. I threw away the ones I got from the other vendor.

As far as the stems pulling off cleanly, I think that's more "luck of the draw". About 1 out of 4 of my Zenith supplied A5's have a sharp tip sticking up.

Run your hand along your wing rivet lines and you'll see what I mean. I'm not too worried about it, but if I were polishing my wings I would be as it would tear up polish pads in short order.

Patrick
XL/Corvair


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:30 pm    Post subject: Avex Rivets Reply with quote

I've have some rivets ( Zenith provided ) on my fuselage with the shank not having cleanly torn away and have been trying to figure out what to do about them.

Is it safe to leave them, is it OK to "clean them up" with a file, or would it be best to drill them out and re-rivet those holes?

Thanks,

On Dec 4, 2007 1:11 PM, n801bh(at)netzero.com (n801bh(at)netzero.com) <n801bh(at)netzero.com (n801bh(at)netzero.com)> wrote:
Quote:
I am going to chime in here. On my 801 I built in 2001 every one of the ZAC supplied Rivets always pulled correctly and out of 14,000+, none ended up with a shank sticking out. The only difficult ones were the Stainless ones used on the firewall. They just broke the air riveter. :<(.
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com

-- "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com (pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com (pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com)>
dougsnash(at)yahoo.com wrote:
Quote:
Personally, I'm using the Aircraft Spruce rivets.

I belive the rivets that Zenith sells are from a certain Avex plant and have amore consistant breakaway of the stem when pulled.

Occasionally, the Spruce rivets do have a slight protrusion of the broken stem. It happens but not very often.



I also used ACS rivets. I'd also purchased some A6's from ACS and from one other vendor (at Oshkosh) - the ones from ACS had a more consistent appearance and appeared to be of better quality which compares well with the ones supplied from Zenith. I've only used rivets from Zenith and from ACS. I threw away the ones I got from the other vendor.

As far as the stems pulling off cleanly, I think that's more "luck of the draw". About 1 out of 4 of my Zenith supplied A5's have a sharp tip sticking up.

Run your hand along your wing rivet lines and you'll see what I mean. I'm not too worried about it, but if I were polishing my wings I would be as it would tear up polish pads in short order.

Patrick
XL/Corvair

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Jugle



Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 47
Location: Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Avex Rivets Reply with quote

Thanks for your replies. One thing I find curious is that Aircraft Spruce refer to them as "Avex Non-Structural Blind Rivets". I've never heard of them referred to as non-structural anywhere else.

Anyone know why this is?

Glenn


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bryanmmartin



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:12 pm    Post subject: Avex Rivets Reply with quote

The answer is -- yes. Smile

You can just leave them as is, unless the appearance really bothers
you. If so, you can either clean up the stem with a file, as long as
you don't damage the aluminum part of the rivet. Even if you do damage
the rivet, there are more rivets in the plane than are really needed
for structural strength. If all else fails, drive out the stem with a
small pin punch and then it will be very easy to drill out and replace.
On Dec 4, 2007, at 4:28 PM, John Marzulli wrote:

Quote:
I've have some rivets ( Zenith provided ) on my fuselage with the
shank not having cleanly torn away and have been trying to figure
out what to do about them.

Is it safe to leave them, is it OK to "clean them up" with a file,
or would it be best to drill them out and re-rivet those holes?



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:38 pm    Post subject: Avex Rivets Reply with quote

I Glenn

Avex Rivets that you specifies on you email are the good ones. Avex rivets
are Avex rivets. Chris H. made special disclosure about testing the rivets,
you can do those test if you want. Big confusion exist about Avex rivets
base on Chris H declaration about those rivets, somebody said only those
produce in UK are ok, others could be produced in China? But who now where
Avex produced their stuff today ?

Buy the rivets sold by Spruce Aircraft and don't let anybody confuse you on
that question. If they are produce by Avex in sold by Aircraft Spruce, I
believe they are ok. I used thousand of them, never find one defective.

Some time to much opinion is too much and it's confuse the builder judgment.

Christian Tremblay
A guy who build a CH640 aircraft from plan
http://www.zodiac640.com/

-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Jugle
Envoyé : Monday, December 03, 2007 11:03 PM
À : zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : Avex Rivets



Hello all,

I've been looking at the price of rivets on the Zenith site and comparing
with those from Aircraft Spruce. The Aircraft Spruce ones are substantially
cheaper but are they suitable? They refer to them as Avex Non-structural
Blind Rivets, countersunk Part Nos. 1604-0412, 1604-0514 and 1604-0615. Are
these the correct type?

I got a quote from Zenith for a hardware box which goes for $425.00 but
apparently it doesn't include rivets.

What have you other scratchbuilders done?

Thanks in advance,
Glenn

--------
Glenn Andressen
601XL- just started.


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Jugle



Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 47
Location: Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Avex Rivets Reply with quote

Thanks Christian, you and others here have helped to clarify.
Glenn

cj.tremblay(at)videotron. wrote:

Avex Rivets that you specifies on you email are the good ones. Avex rivets
are Avex rivets. Chris H. made special disclosure about testing the rivets,
you can do those test if you want. Big confusion exist about Avex rivets
base on Chris H declaration about those rivets, somebody said only those
produce in UK are ok, others could be produced in China? But who now where
Avex produced their stuff today ?

Buy the rivets sold by Spruce Aircraft and don't let anybody confuse you on
that question. If they are produce by Avex in sold by Aircraft Spruce, I
believe they are ok. I used thousand of them, never find one defective.

Some time to much opinion is too much and it's confuse the builder judgment.



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TxDave



Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 168
Location: Temple, TX

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Avex Rivets Reply with quote

Zenith no longer gets their Avex rivets from the UK. There is only one source and that's in China. The UK plant is no longer producing these rivets. The ones Zenith purchases are from the same source as Aircraft Spruce. There is NO DIFFERENCE except that Zenith runs random tests. Don't believe me...call ZAC and ask them. I did.

Dave Clay


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ashontz



Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:04 am    Post subject: Re: Avex Rivets Reply with quote

Could just be the rivet puller too.

Gig Giacona wrote:
That's strange. I've riveted the tail, both wings and most of the fuselage with nothing but the rivets from Zenith and I have never had one that left a tip of any kinds sticking up.


As far as the stems pulling off cleanly, I think that's more "luck of the draw". About 1 out of 4 of my Zenith supplied A5's have a sharp tip sticking up.

Run your hand along your wing rivet lines and you'll see what I mean. I'm not too worried about it, but if I were polishing my wings I would be as it would tear up polish pads in short order.

Patrick
XL/Corvair[/quote][/quote]


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:18 pm    Post subject: Avex Rivets Reply with quote

Thanks Dave, that confirms what I heard about that topic. It clarifies this
remaining questions arising season after season.

See you

How was your new project ?

Christian Tremblay
A guy who build a CH640 aircraft from plan
http://www.zodiac640.com/

-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de TxDave
Envoyé : Thursday, December 06, 2007 2:18 AM
À : zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : Re: Avex Rivets



Zenith no longer gets their Avex rivets from the UK. There is only one
source and that's in China. The UK plant is no longer producing these
rivets. The ones Zenith purchases are from the same source as Aircraft
Spruce. There is NO DIFFERENCE except that Zenith runs random tests. Don't
believe me...call ZAC and ask them. I did.

Dave Clay


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Tim Juhl



Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Avex Rivets Reply with quote

I've never had a Zenith supplied rivet leave any of the shank protruding. I got my rivets in June 06 so they may be some that were made in the UK.

I've seen a number of problems with Chinese built products - poison pet food, bogus drugs and personal products, aluminum that doesn't meet spec, inferior auto parts, lead paint on toys...... pardon me if I'm not a fan of Chinese exports.

The fact that avex rivets are now made in China does not reassure me.

Tim


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rlalonde



Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:39 pm    Post subject: Avex Rivets Reply with quote

In defence of Chinese made products, (which I agree are inferior on the most part) it had been discovered that many of the products (especially the lead paint on toys) were produced by specifications and engineering requested by North American companies!! They produced what was requested, at a price well below of what it could be made in the US or Canada.
You get what you pay for. If there is a market for "cheap" you get "cheap". Avex rivets......if you test them like Zenith Aircraft suggests, it is a safe bet they are ok. Pay your money, and take your chances....who says the UK rivets were any better?? UK hasnt made them for a few years and I havent seen any reports indicating either positive or negatively.
Just something to think about.
Ron



> Subject: Re: Avex Rivets
Quote:
From: juhl(at)avci.net
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 18:46:07 -0800
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net>

I've never had a Zenith supplied rivet leave any of the shank protruding. I got my rivets in June 06 so they may be some that were made in the UK.

I've seen a number of problems with Chinese built products - poison pet food, bogus drugs and personal products, aluminum that doesn't meet spec, inferior auto parts, lead paint on toys...... pardon me if I'm not a fan of Chinese exports.

The fact that avex rivets are now made in China does not reassure me.

Tim

--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings




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ashontz



Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:29 am    Post subject: Re: Avex Rivets Reply with quote

Hurray for globalization!!! NOT!!!

I knew NAFTA was a bunch of crap back in 1992, and I was only 23 at the time. I thought to myself then, ok, we're in a recession, I'm finding it difficult to find a job out of college with a usable degree in computer science and Clinton retard is making promises to give even more jobs to foreigners. Bush Sr. and Jr. also helped that along, typical Republicrats. NAFTA and globalization is nothing more than help for corporate socialists in this country (facists) to make it easier for the top .1% to make even more money under the US flag while first off not even being an actual US company and secondly taking all of those jobs away from Americans and making them work for less at crappy Wal-Mart greeter jobs and then encouraging them to find 'wealth' through borrowing against asset inflation (housing bubble home equity loans). THis country is royally screwed. Call me a nut, but we are at the cusp of a second Greater Depression and this credit crunch and housing slump are just the tip of the iceberg. These globalization/trade deficit created debts are now coming due with deflation in leveraged assets (housing) and inflation in everything else you need, particularly commodities. The only candidate that's addressing any of this is Ron Paul, running as a Republican (because he;s always been a REAL conservative not a NeoCon) but a Libertarian at heart. Think first before you vote this time around.

I know there's older guys on here so this one may bring it a little closer to home for you. If you think you're safe for retirement and invested well, think again. Look at your investment mutual funds. Most of them are tainted with a lot of what's called commercial paper and mortgage backed securities. Wallstreet has been packaging these crappy subprime loans along with other supposedly safe investments and calling it all AAA rated which is what pension funds are only allowed to buy. The pension funds then are expecting a safe return as well as the share value of that fund to always be equal to $1. Well, now that housing is going in the crapper, those fund shares have an indeterminate value (meaning their crap). Google Florida Fund. Their whole pension and munipal funds system is all screwed up right now as will many others be.

Rant off.

[quote="rlalonde"]In defence of Chinese made products, (which I agree are inferior on the most part) it had been discovered that many of the products (especially the lead paint on toys) were produced by specifications and engineering requested by North American companies!! They produced what was requested, at a price well below of what it could be made in the US or Canada.
You get what you pay for. If there is a market for "cheap" you get "cheap". Avex rivets......if you test them like Zenith Aircraft suggests, it is a safe bet they are ok. Pay your money, and take your chances....who says the UK rivets were any better?? UK hasnt made them for a few years and I havent seen any reports indicating either positive or negatively.
Just something to think about.
Ron



> Subject: Re: Avex Rivets
Quote:
From: juhl(at)avci.net
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 18:46:07 -0800
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl>

I've never had a Zenith supplied rivet leave any of the shank protruding. I got my rivets in June 06 so they may be some that were made in the UK.

I've seen a number of problems with Chinese built products - poison pet food, bogus drugs and personal products, aluminum that doesn't meet spec, inferior auto parts, lead paint on toys...... pardon me if I'm not a fan of Chinese exports.

The fact that avex rivets are now made in China does not reassure me.

Tim

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CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on wings




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:47 pm    Post subject: Avex Rivets Reply with quote

I prefer to level the residual pintail by "dusting" it down flush with the rivet head in a series of light touches with a Dotco or similar very high speed grinder (sanding disc grinder). The problem with filing it down is that the pressure and vibration of filing are in cahoots to reduce the pintail retention system of the fastener (not the greatest to start with)

John Marzulli <john.marzulli(at)gmail.com> wrote:[quote] I've have some rivets ( Zenith provided ) on my fuselage with the shank not having cleanly torn away and have been trying to figure out what to do about them.

Is it safe to leave them, is it OK to "clean them up" with a file, or would it be best to drill them out and re-rivet those holes?

Thanks,

On Dec 4, 2007 1:11 PM, n801bh(at)netzero.com (n801bh(at)netzero.com) <n801bh(at)netzero.com (n801bh(at)netzero.com)> wrote:
[quote] I am going to chime in here. On my 801 I built in 2001 every one of the ZAC supplied Rivets always pulled correctly and out of 14,000+, none ended up with a shank sticking out. The only difficult ones were the Stainless ones used on the firewall. They just broke the air riveter. :<(.
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com

-- "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com (pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com (pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com)>
dougsnash(at)yahoo.com wrote:
Quote:
Personally, I'm using the Aircraft Spruce rivets.

I belive the rivets that Zenith sells are from a certain Avex plant and have amore consistant breakaway of the stem when pulled.

Occasionally, the Spruce rivets do have a slight protrusion of the broken stem. It happens but not very often.



I also used ACS rivets. I'd also purchased some A6's from ACS and from one other vendor (at Oshkosh) - the ones from ACS had a more consistent appearance and appeared to be of better quality which compares well with the ones supplied from Zenith. I've only used rivets from Zenith and from ACS. I threw away the ones I got from the other vendor.

As far as the stems pulling off cleanly, I think that's more "luck of the draw". About 1 out of 4 of my Zenith supplied A5's have a sharp tip sticking up.

Run your hand along your wing rivet lines and you'll see what I mean. I'm not too worried about it, but if I were polishing my wings I would be [quote][b]


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:33 am    Post subject: Re: Avex Rivets Reply with quote

ashontz wrote:
Could just be the rivet puller too.

I'm now using a better rivet puller, but still get some A5's that leave a sharp tip poking up. I also have another box of fresh A5's from Zenith that I'll be using next, so it'll be interesting to see how those are.

Not a big problem - I'll just dremel down the sharp tips of the worse ones and move on.

Patrick
XL/Corvair


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