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hart701(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:43 am Post subject: China products

Ron,

Are you saying that the North American Companies specified lead paint??.....c'mon!

Rich H



"it had been discovered that many of the products (especially the le 

ad paint on toys) were produced by specifications and engineering requested 

 by North American companies!!"

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:34 am Post subject: China products

My father works in the Lab at General Electric and a lot of the water  coolers are made in China to the American specs but about every 6 months they  have to find out why the water cooler has a bad odor or bad tasting water. And  it is always that China has changed a part or gasket or o-ring that no one asked  them to Now we see the paint issue. I think most of the China made things in my  house won't kill me but I wouldn't want to trust China to use the proper  materials in building my airplane because they have proven they just do what  they want with our things. So go ahead and order your nice new airplanes  from China but don't whine when you find out that the parts that were supposed  to go in them weren't used, and then I guess Cessna will apologize to China  just like Mattel did. 

  

 Jeff

  

  In a message dated 12/7/2007 6:44:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  hart701(at)charter.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Zenith-List message posted by: <hart701(at)charter.net>



Ron,

Are    you saying that the North American Companies specified lead    paint??.....c'mon!

Rich H



"it had been discovered that many of the    products (especially the le 

ad paint on toys) were produced by    specifications and engineering requested 

by North American  p;  sp;             (And Get Some AWESOME FREE   find  you for                          -Matt Dralle,    List  he  es  y       -->                 - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS  ======================



	




hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.

  [quote][b]

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:22 am Post subject: China products

Good LSA aircraft and components are built in other countries and I have 

no problem

with that.  I watched the machine tool industry and the materials base 

go overseas years ago

but the aggressive position that China's leaders are taking puts this 

country in jeopardy.

I'd predict this will bottom out in less than 5 years when the dollar is 

busted and

China decides to take over all large business assets in this country.  

Our special interest

leaderships, like Cessna, Chrysler etc, seem to be preparing for this as 

an inevitability

and it's happening much faster than anyone seems aware.



Larry

do not archive



Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   My father works in the Lab at General Electric and a lot of the water 

 coolers are made in China to the American specs but about every 6 

 months they have to find out why the water cooler has a bad odor or 

 bad tasting water. And it is always that China has changed a part or 

 gasket or o-ring that no one asked them to Now we see the paint issue. 

 I think most of the China made things in my house won't kill me but I 

 wouldn't want to trust China to use the proper materials in building 

 my airplane because they have proven they just do what they want 

 with our things. So go ahead and order your nice new airplanes from 

 China but don't whine when you find out that the parts that were 

 supposed to go in them weren't used, and then I guess Cessna will 

 apologize to China just like Mattel did. 

  

 Jeff

  

 In a message dated 12/7/2007 6:44:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, 

 hart701(at)charter.net writes:



     



     Ron,

     Are you saying that the North American Companies specified lead

     paint??.....c'mon!

     Rich H



     "it had been discovered that many of the products (especially the le

     ad paint on toys) were produced by specifications and engineering

     requested

     by North American p; sp;          (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find

     you for                     -Matt Dralle, List he es y   -->      

            - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ======================

nyterminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:16 am Post subject: China products

A friend of mine works for a testing lab much like UL, he has gone to China to investigate why products failed after getting their testing approval. Well it turns out that things that were made in China for the US were being copied by the Chinese and sold as the tested product with forged labels. When they tried to locate the factory that was making the knock off items they were either closed or making some other product. They use factories like a shell game where they will move a whole assembly line to another factory location just to avoid detection. This seems to be a standard game to them and their government is so corrupt that they will not enforce anything because a lot of them are being paid off. I know an acquaintance in China who is a US citizen that constantly gets frustrated by their lying just to save face mentality. It is part of the culture and I  doubt that it will change because they are building an airplane.

 

 Bob

 

 

 

 

   	  Quote: 	
		      My father works in the Lab at General Electric and a lot of the water coolers are made in China to the American specs but about every 6 months they have to find out why the water cooler has a bad odor or bad tasting water. And it is always that China has changed a part or gasket or o-ring that no one asked them to Now we see the paint issue. I think most of the China made things in my house won't kill me but I wouldn't want to trust China to use the proper materials in building my airplane because they have proven they just do what they want with our things. So go ahead and order your nice new airplanes from China but don't whine when you find out that the parts that were supposed to go in them weren't used, and then I guess Cessna will apologize to China just like Mattel did. 

    

   Jeff

    

     In a message dated 12/7/2007 6:44:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, hart701(at)charter.net (hart701(at)charter.net) writes:

   	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith-List message posted by: <hart701(at)charter.net (hart701(at)charter.net)>

 

 Ron,

 Are you saying that the North American Companies specified lead paint??.....c'mon!

 Rich H

 

 "it had been discovered that many of the products (especially the le 

 ad paint on toys) were produced by specifications and engineering requested 

 by North American p; sp;          (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for                     -Matt Dralle, List he es y   -->              - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ======================

 

 

 

 	


 

 

 

     hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.

 	


 

 

 --

n4546v(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:17 am Post subject: China products

Do not archive



I wish that everyone who is concerned with China was as concerned about OUR

Governments (Fed, State, Local) regulation and tax systems driving business

away.  With nearly 50% of our population employed by a Government of some

sort, China or not, we're heading for trouble.



Request for clarification.



If China owns everything and busts the dollar, who will they sell to?  Who

will be able to buy anything?



And, does anyone on this list list own a tool from Harbor Freight?  Rivet

guns come to mind?



Best Regards,



Randy, Las Vegas





 	  Quote: 	
		   less than 5 years when the dollar is

 busted

rlalonde

Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 43

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:18 am Post subject: China products

I dont wanna get into a big argument...this is the Zenith list.

 Dont forget boys...if someone from North America ordered "Zenith aircraft parts" from China (for a cheapo price) what would the quality be like?? You get what you pay for.  Copycat producers of Zenith aircraft are doing the same thing as China....and they have a market....but quality metal/material....I doubt it.

  

 No one complains of cheaply made products when they are paying for them...just when they fail to live up to the expectaions of comparitive quality products they were designed after. Buy from Zenith if you want to be sure of the quaility. OR test the material you purchase using empirical standards with cost not being a consideration..

  

 Lets get real!!T he toys that had lead paint and were exported to the States were designed and purchased by a North American market. No...they didnt say "make sure to paint with toxic lead paint" but they (designers etc)stipulated that they wanted the toys inexpensively (Cheap junk in other words) so they were made with the cheapest material available., and overstocked and inexpensive lead paint was used.

  Thus, this is the reason these toys made it over here....lead paint and all. 

 Obviously they are not going to make inferior products with superior material. You get what you pay for.

 This is NOT new, it has been happening for years.

 Chinese products will always be around, as long as the North American market supports it.

  

 So come on.....we cant blame China, when it is US/Canada that in a large part drives and supports the market!!! Go into any store and you will easily see the light.

 Avex rivets..........think about it and make sure to test them...Just like ZAC advises.

 Ron.

 



 

   

 > Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 03:37:09 -0800

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: hart701(at)charter.net

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: China products

 

 --> Zenith-List message posted by: <hart701(at)charter.net>

 

 Ron,

 Are you saying that the North American Companies specified lead paint??.....c'mon!

 Rich H

 

 "it had been discovered that many of the products (especially the le 

 ad paint on toys) were produced by specifications and engine===================

 

 

 


	


HO HO HO, if you've been nice this year, email Santa! Visit asksanta.ca to learn more!  [quote][b]

baileys(at)ktis.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:57 am Post subject: China products

Good point, not to mention the overzealous  inspectors from EEOC, OSHA, Natural Resources, labor relations board,  etc.etc.  I spent most of my adult life in Mfg. and you do not want to  offend any of these guys.  The are litigious, hostile, nit pickers who  think you are the lowest form of life.  Of course both management and the  labor unions share the blame too.

  

 BTW I have several HF tools and I would much prefer  American Made, but it is almost non-exsistent.

 Even American name brands come from  China.

  

 Bob B.

 [quote]Do    not archive



I wish that everyone who is concerned with China was as    concerned about OUR

Governments (Fed, State, Local) regulation and tax    systems driving business

away.  With nearly 50% of our population    employed by a Government of some

sort, China or not, we're heading for    trouble.



Request for clarification.



If China owns everything and    busts the dollar, who will they sell to?  Who

will be able to buy    anything?



And, does anyone on this list list own a tool from Harbor    Freight?  Rivet

guns come to mind?



[b]

bill_dom(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:21 am Post subject: China products

I think this is the REAL reason why business are outsourcing to China:



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/2139401.stm



It would be really tough for American workers to compete with people working under such conditions, no matter how much you deregulate labor in this country.



I don't know you guys but I would never want to see any American employee working under such conditions.



William Dominguez

Obviously do not archive



baileys <baileys(at)ktis.net> wrote:[quote]       Good point, not to mention the overzealous  inspectors from EEOC, OSHA, Natural Resources, labor relations board,  etc.etc.  I spent most of my  adult life in Mfg. and you do not want to  offend any of these guys.  The are litigious, hostile, nit pickers who  think you are the lowest form of life.  Of course both management and the  labor unions share the blame too.

  

 BTW I have several HF tools and I would much prefer  American Made, but it is almost non-exsistent.

 Even American name brands come from  China.

  

 Bob B.

 [quote]Do    not archive



I wish that everyone who is concerned with China was as    concerned about OUR

Governments (Fed, State, Local) regulation and tax    systems driving business

away.  With nearly [quote][b]

nyterminat(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:34 am Post subject: China products

Randy, You are right, I believe all the Craftsman tools are now made in China too.

 

 do not archive

   	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		  If China owns everything and busts the dollar, who will they sell to?  Who

will be able to buy anything?



And, does anyone on this list list own a tool from Harbor Freight?  Rivet

guns come to mind?



Best Regards,



Randy, Las Vegas 	
	


 

 

 --

n4546v(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:52 pm Post subject: China products

Do not archive

  

 Craftsman tools WERE made by the  conglomerate; Danaher Corp which still owns/makes the following  brands:

  

 Allen



Armstrong Tools



GearWrench



Holo-Krome



Iseli



K-D  Tools



Matco  Tools



Sata



Spline  Gauges

  

 They also own Jacobs Chucks.

  

 Craftsman is now missing from their list, I'm sure you are right  about where they are now made.

  

 http://www.danaher.com/business/strategic_detail.asp?key=12

  

 Regards,

  

 Randy, Las Vegas

 



  	  Quote: 	
		      

   Subject: Re: China    products

   



Randy, You are right, I believe all the    Craftsman tools are now made in China too.



do not    archive

    	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		  If China owns everything and busts the dollar, who will they sell to?  Who

will be able to buy anything?



And, does anyone on this list list own a tool from Harbor Freight?  Rivet

guns come to mind?



Best Regards,



Randy, Las Vegas

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purplemoon99(at)bellsouth
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:37 pm Post subject: China products

Larry, you are 100% correct....Joe N101HD

---

purplemoon99(at)bellsouth
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:47 pm Post subject: China products

[quote]   How about the phoney drug there flooding the    market with,they look just  like the one's made in this country,    except they's been killing people. The bad part of the story is they were    bought by american drug sales men and sliped in to the supply with the real    ones....Joe N101HD

   ---

purplemoon99(at)bellsouth
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:48 pm Post subject: China products

I say BUY AMERICAN or BY  AMERICA>>>>> Joe N101HD

 [quote]   ---

purplemoon99(at)bellsouth
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject: China products

Randy,I am as guilty as every one when it comes to  Harbor Freight ,I  going to clean all that crap out of my tool box  tomorrow.....Joe N101HD

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n4546v(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:27 pm Post subject: China products

Do not archive

  

 You're not guilty of anything Joe and keep your HF  tools.  The point is that you can't make a big point of swearing off  Chinese tools and A/C parts while all the shoes your family wears, half your car  parts, the Christmas lights decorating your home & tree, and a lot (not all)  of the stuff sold at Wal-Mart and Kmart also comes from China.

  

 We all need to brush up on economics.  Go to  economist www.walterewilliams.com  and read everything on his site.  If Harbor Freight's China foundry wants  to cast a 55 lb. anvil out of mined cast iron, take a machining cut across the  top, package it and ship it halfway around the world to sell to us for $24.95 on  sale, it allows all of us to have a anvil in our shop.  

  

 The pendulum is actually swinging back our  way.  Price pressure is starting to affect Chinese products.  For  example; the Chinese produced a drill bit for one dollar three years ago when  their workers made 33 cents a hour.  Now high speed steel has doubled in  price and although still cheap, their labor now costs 66 cents per hour.   Yet they have trained the world to pay only one dollar for this drill bit.   The price pressure causes them to try to hold that price so they try to cut  everywhere else from materials to process with the result being quality  suffers.  Now the product that was of marginal quality is now unusable so  if they fail every time you quit buying.

  

 I have noticed this on industrial products.   So for many items, I have quite buying imports and have started buying "made in  USA" again.

  

 Importing from China only pays if you are making a  commodity type item in huge quantities, month after month, shipment after  shipment.  If you need a small variation from the norm, they aren't  interested.

  

 Have the Chinese jumped in and started making  Jabiru engines?

  

 I buy from HF all the time, but am very selective  as to what I buy.  Some items are pure junk, some are usable for very light  duty, some actually work very well.  A lot of their tools are good for very  infrequent use.  In the long run, they don't hold up.

  

 HF sockets have worked well for me.  Their  wrenches are clumsy clubs.  Their electric tools usually don't hold up and  aren't that much cheaper than the major brands at Home Depot.  Buy a set of  their tru-arc ring pliers and the points may snap off with their first  use.  I bought a gear puller set and with the first use, I pulled the  threads out of the center, no heat treatment I guess?  I bought a  auto-darkening welding helmet from them that works fine.  Their air tools  are competitive with other imports.

  

 The whole picture is very complex and the above is  a very quick overview of just a few aspects of the subject.

  

 Regards and Apologies,

  

 Randy, Las Vegas

  

 P.S.:  Wal-Mart sells a line of spray paint  for $ .99 each.  Made in USA!  It includes: A metal can, a  lithographed label, a plastic nozzle, a plastic cap, the paint, the propellant  and a rattle ball along with American effort to put it all together.  How  can this be?

  

  

 ---

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