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V-Man(at)v-man.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:19 pm Post subject: electric car

If you are really interested in a decent electric  this will thrill your pants off...  And I drive an frame off resto '81Vette  with a 3/4 race cam for fun.  ( I like Vettes that look like Vettes )   

  

 http://www.teslamotors.com/

  

 Check it out,

  

 Victor

 ---

John Vormbaum

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 273
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:47 pm Post subject: electric car

Tesla is right up the road from me, and let me tell you, those cars RIP. 

Torque curve is constant, so the 0-60 in 4 sec. also translates to 

70-130 in 4 sec. Pretty scary, eh? If they are actually good for 250 

miles between charges, they'll probably sell quite a few.



/J



Victor C. Rupert wrote:

[quote] If you are really interested in a decent electric this will thrill 

 your pants off...  And I drive an frame off resto '81Vette with a 3/4 

 race cam for fun.  ( I like Vettes that look like Vettes ) 

  

 http://www.teslamotors.com/

  

 Check it out,

  

 Victor

 ---

wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:43 pm Post subject: electric car

Folks,

 Interestingly, the Toyota Prius has about the same fuel consumption as the small Audi and VW 1.5lt TDI diesels, both city, country and combined cycle fuel consumption tests.

 For any vehicle, the on road costs are only part of the story, the power source for the recharging, and the battery material/cost/life/disposal is seldom included in the assessment of electric vehicles. What will make a difference is if natural gas powered power cells to produce the charge mature as a technology. Rechargeable (with methanol, I think) power cells are already available in small sized for things like laptop computers. Natural gas powered power cells are available here (in non-commercial quantity and quality) to recharge electric powered car batteries.

 An interesting substitute for petroleum based fuels is hydrogen, BMW is already selling H powered cars in Germany, the exhaust is water. If the H comes from solar powered electrolysis, the cycle pollution load is effectively nil, from nuclear almost nil, and no CO/CO2/Methane at all.

 It won't be in my time, but expect aircraft to be one of the last forms of transport to use liquid petroleum fuels, however the liquid fuel is produced.

 Cheers,

 Bill Hamilton

 ZK-DCF 



  



 

 At 15:48 9/12/2007, you wrote:

 [quote]--> Commander-List message posted by: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>



 Tesla is right up the road from me, and let me tell you, those cars RIP. Torque curve is constant, so the 0-60 in 4 sec. also translates to 70-130 in 4 sec. Pretty scary, eh? If they are actually good for 250 miles between charges, they'll probably sell quite a few.



 /J



 Victor C. Rupert wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  If you are really interested in a decent electric this will thrill your pants off...  And I drive an frame off resto '81Vette with a 3/4 race cam for fun.  ( I like Vettes that look like Vettes )   http://www.teslamotors.com/

  

 Check it out, 	
[b]

yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject: electric car

Cool!!!  I have a 1979, 4sp survivor, it is Corvette #13 for me, and the newest one I have owned.  jb

   	  Quote: 	
		  And I drive an frame off resto '81Vette with a 3/4 race cam for fun 	


 

 

 --

John Vormbaum

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 273
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:03 pm Post subject: electric car

Bill, I agree with you that MPG is only part of the story. The carbon 

footprint of manufacturing Priuses is far larger, I think, than you 

would expect. Especially considering that as you mentioned, you can get 

far better performance while sacrificing none of the efficiency by 

buying the little Audi or VW.



Hydrogen in my mind will be a long time coming as a mass-consumed fuel, 

simply due to the difficulty of creating the new infrastructure. That 

and the fact that in the short run at least, solar-powered electrolysis 

and dedicated nuke-powered electrolysis is a long time away; which means 

that hydrogen will be produced using electricity produced from 

petroleum-burning powerplants.....so you end up with the same 

environmental problems, although at a higher efficiency.



Methanol fuel cells sound better; methanol by itself as a fuel is a 

stopgap measure at best, as CO2 is still a byproduct (or is it CO) of 

its combustion, and you have all the power/range problems that oil cured.



Just my $0.02, and worth every bit of what you all paid for it .



/J



W J R HAMILTON wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Folks,

 Interestingly, the Toyota Prius has about the same fuel consumption as 

 the small Audi and VW 1.5lt TDI diesels, both city, country and 

 combined cycle fuel consumption tests.

 For any vehicle, the on road costs are only part of the story, the 

 power source for the recharging, and the battery 

 material/cost/life/disposal is seldom included in the assessment of 

 electric vehicles. What will make a difference is if natural gas 

 powered power cells to produce the charge mature as a technology. 

 Rechargeable (with methanol, I think) power cells are already 

 available in small sized for things like laptop computers. Natural gas 

 powered power cells are available here (in non-commercial quantity and 

 quality) to recharge electric powered car batteries.

 An interesting substitute for petroleum based fuels is hydrogen, BMW 

 is already selling H powered cars in Germany, the exhaust is water. If 

 the H comes from solar powered electrolysis, the cycle pollution load 

 is effectively nil, from nuclear almost nil, and no CO/CO2/Methane at all.

 It won't be in my time, but expect aircraft to be one of the last 

 forms of transport to use liquid petroleum fuels, however the liquid 

 fuel is produced.

 Cheers,

 Bill Hamilton

 ZK-DCF



 ------------------------------------------------------------------------



 At 15:48 9/12/2007, you wrote:

> 

>

> Tesla is right up the road from me, and let me tell you, those cars 

> RIP. Torque curve is constant, so the 0-60 in 4 sec. also translates 

> to 70-130 in 4 sec. Pretty scary, eh? If they are actually good for 

> 250 miles between charges, they'll probably sell quite a few.

>

> /J

>

> Victor C. Rupert wrote:

>> If you are really interested in a decent electric this will thrill 

>> your pants off...  And I drive an frame off resto '81Vette with a 

>> 3/4 race cam for fun.  ( I like Vettes that look like Vettes )  

>> http://www.teslamotors.com/

>>  

>> Check it out,

 *

 *

Cate Chagnot

Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 36
Location: Ohio

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: electric car

Hi Guys,



I made a presentation last Thursday in Cheonju, South Korea at a renewable energy conference. One of the presenters was from a lab in Germany that has really advanced development of direct methane fuel cells.

From what I can remember about the presentation the cost is running around $8000/kilowatt for 1 to 2 kilowatt models and they're still having problems with life of the fuel cell with recent versions running around 2000 hours before the cell has to be replaced. Advancements are bound to come but they weren't addressing the cost of fuel production, nor it's distribution. I can't remember exactly what the efficiencies were but I think they're in the low 20% range if that. I think it'll be awhile before we see practical fuel cells powering vehicles. Solar cells have bottomed out around $3 /watt and once you add the installation and electronics cost it's around $6/watt. 

The argument for electric cars has to take in to account how the electricity is produced and at what cost. The cars themselves are non polluting but if you're using a coal fired plant to produce the electricity then you're just shifting the pollution elsewhere (out of sight, out of mind?). If you use smaller, localized biomass burning power plants to produce the electricity then not only do you have  'net-zero' CO2 production (what you put into the atmosphere comes out to grow the plant material) but you can take advantage of the reject heat of power production in a CHP cycle to increase your overall efficiency of energy usage.

_________________
Cate

N4278S 680E
Skywagon N180PK

yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:38 pm Post subject: electric car

That is exactly what I was eluding to in my post.  I don't think you ca gain any real round unless you produce the electricity from a non polluting nuke plant.  jb

   	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		  The argument for electric cars has to take in to account how the electricity is 

produced and at what cost. The cars themselves are non polluting but if you're 

using a coal fired plant to produce the electricity then you're just shifting 

the pollution elsewhere (out of sight, out of mind?). 	
	


 

 

 --

dowens(at)aerialviewpoint
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:56 am Post subject: electric car

I bet if you put about 2000 onions in the trunk, it  could give a semi-charge in case of emergency...  ... Of course then if  you had a need you would just haft to add some gatorade . If everyone drove golf  carts, it would cut down on the global warming fallacy...

  

  

  

  

 David Owens

Aerial  Viewpoint

N14AV

AC-500A-Colemill

   [quote][b]

dowens(at)aerialviewpoint
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:39 am Post subject: electric car

Also...    Joe Horn For  President.

  

  

  

  

 David Owens

Aerial  Viewpoint

N14AV

AC-500A-Colemill

   [quote][b]

dowens(at)aerialviewpoint
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:47 am Post subject: electric car

Also... Remember

  

  

Dr. John Christy, professor of Atmospheric Science at the University of  Alabama at Huntsville said: "I remember as a college student at the first Earth  Day being told it was a certainty that by the year 2000, the world would be  starving and out of energy. Such doomsday prophecies grabbed headlines, but have  proven to be completely false." "Similar pronouncements today about catastrophes  due to human-induced climate change," he continued, "sound all too familiar and  all too exaggerated to me as someone who actually produces and analyzes climate  information."  

The media, of course, like the exaggerated claims. Most are based on computer  models that purport to predict future climates. But computer models are lousy at  predicting climate because water vapor and cloud effects cause changes that  computers fail to predict. In the mid-1970s, computer models told us we should  prepare for global cooling.  

Scientists tell reporters that computer models should "be viewed with great  skepticism." Well, why aren't they?  

The fundamentalist doom mongers also ignore scientists who say the effects of  global warming may be benign. Harvard astrophysicist Sallie Baliunas said added  CO2 in the atmosphere may actually benefit the world because more CO2 helps  plants grow. Warmer winters would give farmers a longer harvest season, and  might end the droughts in the Sahara Desert.  

Why don't we hear about this part of the global warming argument? "It's the  money!" said Dr. Baliunas. "Twenty-five billion dollars in government funding  has been spent since 1990 to research global warming. If scientists and  researchers were coming out releasing reports that global warming has little to  do with man, and most to do with just how the planet works, there wouldn't be as  much money to study it." 

 By JOHN STOSSEL

April 20, 2007 

  

  

   [quote][b]

moe(at)rosspistons.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject: electric car

Gents,



Since the start of the motor car slightly over 3,000 companies have been

established in the United States to manufacture automobiles.  The three that

remain (Ford, GM, and Chrysler) are all a little shakey now.  Telsa doesn't

have a very good chance.



Regards,



Moe



--

John Vormbaum

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 273
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:48 pm Post subject: electric car

At $98k/each, they'll sell about 100 of them to local venture 

capitalists and wealthy tree-huggers, and that'll probably be it. If it 

starts looking good for them, the big 3 & the oil companies will 

probably find a way to put them out of business.



Moe - Ross Racing Pistons wrote:

[quote] 



 Gents,



 Since the start of the motor car slightly over 3,000 companies have been

 established in the United States to manufacture automobiles.  The three that

 remain (Ford, GM, and Chrysler) are all a little shakey now.  Telsa doesn't

 have a very good chance.



 Regards,



 Moe



 --

DavidFitzgerald(at)bigpon
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:55 pm Post subject: electric car

Hi List



Having the left engine changed in my 500s and found the engine mounts were

corroded and need replacing.

Only set that I've sourced in Australia is quite expensive and am looking at

other possibilities i.e. importing a set.

If anyone has a set they are keen to sell, or has any other suggestions

please send me an email!



Dave



Dr David Fitzgerald

BMedSci(Hons) MBBS(Hons) ACCAM DipAvMed(Otago)

CASA Medical Officer

Designated Aviation Medical Examiner and Commercial Pilot, Tasair

Zinifex Hobart Smelter and Rosebery Mine Medical Officer

Registrar in Occupational Medicine

DavidFitzgerald(at)bigpond.com

mob 0438 312973

dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:33 pm Post subject: electric car

Everything is bloody expensive as far as replacement parts for the 500S.

I have 1/2 of a door hinge that cost $900+ that I didn't use and the

supplier wouldn't take it back.  We ended up welding the broken hinge

part as it would have required taking the door apart to replace the

hinge part that was broken.  We have recently had to replace the

accumulator/regulator at a cost of $5000 plus $4000 core charge that I

am still waiting for after 2 months. That was just for parts not

including installation.  Then a small fitting broke where it enters the

hydraulic pump and it was $1800 plus install.  I thought about selling

the plane but just couldn't part with it.  I guess it is a "love/hate"

relationship as others have expressed before.



Don



--

John Vormbaum

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 273
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:47 pm Post subject: electric car

Don,



Those sound like several unreasonably priced items. Where are you 

geographically? Who works on your airplane, if you don't mind me asking? 

Knock on wood, but my 1962 500B hasn't had anything like that. I paid 

$18k for a new set of compact props back in '99 when Hartzell had the 

special deal, but when I think "expensive" on my airplane, a cylinder at 

$1,200 is what comes to mind.



/John



dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net wrote:

[quote] 



 Everything is bloody expensive as far as replacement parts for the 500S.

 I have 1/2 of a door hinge that cost $900+ that I didn't use and the

 supplier wouldn't take it back.  We ended up welding the broken hinge

 part as it would have required taking the door apart to replace the

 hinge part that was broken.  We have recently had to replace the

 accumulator/regulator at a cost of $5000 plus $4000 core charge that I

 am still waiting for after 2 months. That was just for parts not

 including installation.  Then a small fitting broke where it enters the

 hydraulic pump and it was $1800 plus install.  I thought about selling

 the plane but just couldn't part with it.  I guess it is a "love/hate"

 relationship as others have expressed before.



 Don



 --

dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:34 pm Post subject: electric car

John



I am located in Lower Michigan and the plane is serviced by a facility

that I was comfortable with servicing my single commander but they are

not knowledgeable about the twin commander.  They have been very

accommodating to me over the years.  They are a family outfit named

Kalamazoo Aircraft and it is a decent facility.  I know that Rapid Air

based in Grand Rapids maintains 5-6 of the 500S's for a freight hauling

outfit out of Kansas (the outfit that has the TKS STC) but I am always

reluctant to start with another facility.  $1200 for a cylinder is

standard as I have replaced a few on my 500S.  In fact I have one

sitting on my shelf that we ended up not having to install.  I am sure I

will need it in the future.  The accumulator/regulator is no longer

manufactured and only one company in the country overhauls/rebuilds them

and they can name their price.  If you have any recommendations I am all

ears.  Up until 3 months ago my local mechanic/IA/friend maintained the

a/c as a learning experience and was quite reasonable as far as charges

but he is no longer around and I am at the mercy of others.



Don



--

yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:15 pm Post subject: electric car

AMEN!  jb

 

 

 --

dowens(at)aerialviewpoint
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:21 am Post subject: electric car

Christmas  Party Planning (Breakdown) 



FROM:  Pauline Lewis, Human Resources Director



TO: All Employees



DATE: 4th November



RE: Christmas Party



I'm happy to inform you that the company Christmas  Party will take

place on December  23rd, starting at noon in the private function room at the

Grill House. There will be a cash bar and plenty of  drinks!

We'll have a small band  playing traditional carols...please feel free

to sing along.



And don't be surprised if the Managing Director shows  up dressed as

Santa Claus!  A  Christmas tree will be lit at 1.00p.m.



Exchange of gifts among employees can be done at that  time; however,

no gift should be over  $10.00 to make the giving of gifts easy for

everyone's pockets.



This gathering is only for  employees! 

The  Managing Director will make

a  special announcement at the Party.

Merry Christmas to you and your  Family.



Pauline

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

FROM: Pauline Lewis, Human Resources  Director



TO: All  Employees



DATE: 5th  November



RE: Holiday  Party



In no way was yesterday's  memo intended to exclude our Jewish

employees.

We recognize that Chanukah is an important holiday, which  often

coincides with Christmas, though  unfortunately not this year. However, from now

on we're calling it our 'Holiday Party.' The same  policy applies to any

other employees  who are not Christians. There will be no Christmas

tree or Christmas carols sung. We will have other  types of music for your

enjoyment.



Happy now?



Happy Holidays to you and your  family,



Pauline.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

FROM; Pauline Lewis, Human Resources  Director



TO: All  Employees



DATE: 6th  November



RE: Holiday  Party



Regarding the note I  received from a member of Alcoholics Anonymous

requesting a non-drinking table...you didn't sign  your name. I'm happy

to accommodate  this request, but if I put a sign on a table that reads,

'AA Only,' you wouldn't be anonymous anymore!!!! How  am I supposed to

handle this?  Somebody?



Forget about the gift  exchange, no gift exchange allowed now since the

Union Officials feel that $10.00 is too much money  and Management

believe $10.00 is a  little cheap.



NO GIFT EXCHANGE  WILL BE ALLOWED.



Pauline.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

FROM: Pauline Lewis, Human Resources  Director



TO: All  Employees



DATE: 7th  November



RE: Holiday  Party



What a diverse group we  are! I had no idea that December 20th begins

the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, which forbids  eating and drinking during

daylight  hours. There goes the party! Seriously, we can ! appreciate

how a luncheon at this time of year does not  accommodate our Muslim

employees'  beliefs, perhaps the Grill House can hold off on serving your  meal

until the end of the party - or  else package everything up for you to take

home in a little foil doggy bag. Will that  work?



Meanwhile, I've arranged  for members of Weight Watchers to sit

farthest from the dessert buffet and pregnant women  will get the table closest

to the  toilets, Gays are allowed to sit with each other, Lesbians do  not

have to sit with gay men, each  will have their own table.



Yes,  there will be flower arrangements for the gay men's table,  too.



To the person asking  permission to cross dress - no cross dressing

allowed. And No, no blow-up  sheep.



We will have booster seats for short  people. Low fat food will be

available for those on a diet. We cannot control the  salt used in the

food. We suggest  those people with high blood pressure taste the food

first. There will be fresh fruits as dessert for  Diabetics, the

restaurant cannot  supply 'No Sugar' desserts. Sorry!



Did I miss anything?!?!?!?!?!

Pauline.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

FROM: Pauline Lewis, Human Resources  Director

TO: All F****** Employees



DATE: 8 November



RE: The ********  Holiday Party.



Vegetarian  pricks I've had it with you people!!! We're going to keep

this party at the Grill House whether you like it or  not, so you can sit

quietly at the  table furthest from the 'grill of death', as you so

quaintly put it. You'll get your f****** salad bar,  including organic

tomatoes, but you  know tomatoes have feeling, too. They scream when

you slice them. I've heard them scream. I'm hearing  them scream right

NOW!!



Hope you all have a rotten holiday * drink, drive,  and die!



The Bitch from  HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



FROM: John Bishop - Acting Human Resources  Director

DATE: 9th  November



RE: 

Pauline Lewis and Holiday Party



I'm sure I speak for all of us in wishing Pauline  Lewis a speedy

recovery, and I'll  continue to forward your cards to her.



In the meantime, Management has decided to cancel our  Holiday Party

and instead, give  everyone the afternoon of the 23rd December off with

full pay.   



  

  

  

  

 David Owens

Aerial  Viewpoint

N14AV

AC-500A-Colemill

   [quote][b]

steve2(at)sover.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:44 pm Post subject: electric car

It's good to see the right quoting scientists to make a point.



Of course John Stossell neglected to mention that Sallie Baliunas

works for Exxon Mobil (I do like their oil and filters), the American 

Petroleum Institute, and nine or ten other inbred 'think tanks'.



But good for her. Everyone needs to make a living.



Steve





Subject:    Re: Re: electric car

From:    yourtcfg(at)aol.com

Date:    Tue Dec 11 - 9:15 PM

AMEN!? jb

--

dowens(at)aerialviewpoint
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:33 am Post subject: electric car

Hehehehe... Hopefully to the other side we will not be bothered too soon

with an "e-test" of our Commanders, BUT I must admit that 500-A's would look

pretty sexxy with that cat bolted onto the exhaust stacks... Might get rid

of that pesky cowl flap setting...





David Owens

Aerial Viewpoint

N14AV

AC-500A-Colemill

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