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601XL-TD Question

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bradfnp(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:47 pm Post subject: 601XL-TD Question

OK,

this is for those of you with TD's out there;



I am seriously considering replacing all A4's with A5's in the rear 

fuselage.



My assumption is the following; Yes. using all A5's will increase the 

weight. Nominally (5#, maybe 10, but I doubt this much) Maybe not the entire 

tail, I guess the turtledeck could be A4's but I am looking at taking this 

trade-off for the increased strength. I am thinking about all the abuse the 

tailfeathers will take once I start three-point landings.



Any thoughts?



Brad Cohen

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larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:30 pm Post subject: 601XL-TD Question

Brad,

Rivet size is determined by the material and loads that are being 

supported.  To arbitrarily put in A5s you place excessive loading on the 

thin materials,

you limit your options when you miss the size and have to go to the next 

larger to compensate and you gain none of the material strength by using

A5s where A4s are specified.  Stay with plan "a" would be my recommendation.



Larry McFarland  601HDS at www.macsmachine.com



Brad Cohen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 OK,

 this is for those of you with TD's out there;



 I am seriously considering replacing all A4's with A5's in the rear 

 fuselage.



 My assumption is the following; Yes. using all A5's will increase the 

 weight. Nominally (5#, maybe 10, but I doubt this much) Maybe not the 

 entire tail, I guess the turtledeck could be A4's but I am looking at 

 taking this trade-off for the increased strength. I am thinking about 

 all the abuse the tailfeathers will take once I start three-point 

 landings.



 Any thoughts?



 Brad Cohen

- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:14 pm Post subject: 601XL-TD Question

I often find myself agreeing with Larry, he is a very smart man. Other

then the reason Larry outlined take into consideration that the 601

series is 27 years old now and the Tail Dragger version was far more

popular in the early models. These used A4 rivets and are still using

them today with many hundreds of trouble free hours. Don't bother

changing something that has proven not to need changing. Adding strength

when not required is of no value. However, if you really want a stronger

Fuselage then flush rivet it. It doesn't need it one bit but It makes

for a flat surface for painting and esthetics on the paint job is a

better reason then using A5's which add little or no benefit. 



Mark Townsend

Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.

president(at)can-zacaviation.com

www.can-zacaviation.com 



--

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planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:16 pm Post subject: 601XL-TD Question

or, if you are determined to improve the toughness of the tailcone structure, space the rivet line slightly closer together and add a few percent more rivets into the build. Most of the joints look like they will be head pops or shear rather than bearing failure in the thin sheet. Pay very anal attention to the quality of the hole sizes, citcularity, deburring, and proper setting of those rivets and the basic design is probably OK for a lifetime of minor "learning cycles".



LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com> wrote:[quote] --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland 



Brad,

Rivet size is determined by the material and loads that are being 

supported.  To arbitrarily put in A5s you place excessive loading on the 

thin materials,

you limit your options when you miss the size and have to go to  the next 

larger to compensate and you gain none of the material strength by using

A5s where A4s are specified.  Stay with plan "a" would be my recommendation.



Larry McFarland  601HDS at www.macsmachine.com



Brad Cohen wrote:

[quote] --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Cohen" 



 OK,

 this is for those of you with TD's out there;



 I am seriously considering replacing all A4's with A5's in the rear 

 fuselage.



 My assumption is the following; Yes. using all A5's will increase the 

 weight. Nominally (5#, maybe 10, but I doubt this much) Maybe not the 

 entire tail, I guess the turtledeck could be A4's but I am looking at 

 taking this trade-off for the increased strength. I am thinking about 

 all the abuse the tailfeathers will take once I start three-point 

 landings.



 Any thoughts?



 Brad       Be a better friend, newshound, and  [quote][b]

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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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