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bowing74(at)earthlink.net
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 Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:06 pm Post subject: discrimination |
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President Bush has signed H.R. 4343 raising the mandatory pilot retirement age from 60 to 65. Thursday, December 13.
Now some of us won’t be fired until we are 65.
It’s about damn time.
bilbo [quote][b]
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fritsabbing(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:52 pm Post subject: discrimination |
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Bill,
When you must/have to fly untill 65 there is not much room left for retirement.
Especially flying long haul.
I talk out of experience and here in the netherlands its still 56.
After that age and later your recovery is longer and its bad for your body.
If the whole flying is healthy anyway.
But I am glad I had and having that career.
How many years to go?
regards
Frits Abbing N812SC
---
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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:18 pm Post subject: discrimination |
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Good Afternoon Frits,
Please excuse my butting in.
I have been retired for over eighteen years.
I think forcing retirement at age sixty was the stupidest thing our industry ever did.
There are a few that should have retired at fifty! However most of us could have safely flown much longer.
Personally, I think I could easily have flown commercially to seventy and still been doing an excellent job.
I fly my Bonanza a couple of hundred hours a year.
IFR if, when, and as required.
I have no hesitation to fly to the published minima any time that is needed. I have many friends who have taken jobs as corporate pilots just to keep in the cockpit a few years longer. Most of them have been forced by insurance companies to retire at age seventy, but none have ever experienced any problems passing whatever annual check ride requirements were applied to their job.
The age sixty requirement was a political move made by a stupid retired Air Force general who hated airline pilots. He was a friend of the then president of American Airlines and when that president wanted to institute an age requirement on his airline, he got the general (FAA head at the time) to make it a rule. There was absolutely NO history that showed a need for early retirement at that time and there has never been an evaluation of pilot competency beyond age sixty that has ever noted the need for early retirement as a general rule. Some of the pilots in their late forties and early fifties have shown cognitive loss and those pilots have been medically retired. That is just as it should be.
Considering the regulatory monitoring that we all must endure and the careful evaluation that our copilots make of our competency, I do not believe there should be any forced retirement age, but sixty-five is a LOT more practical than was age sixty.
Give me a week or two to get back up to speed and I would happily take a flight check in any of the nineteen aircraft for which I am rated!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 12/16/2007 2:53:33 P.M. Central Standard Time, fritsabbing(at)yahoo.com writes:
| Quote: | Bill,
When you must/have to fly untill 65 there is not much room left for retirement.
Especially flying long haul.
I talk out of experience and here in the netherlands its still 56.
After that age and later your recovery is longer and its bad for your body.
If the whole flying is healthy anyway.
But I am glad I had and having that career.
How many years to go?
|
See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.
[quote][b]
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nico(at)cybersuperstore.c
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:37 pm Post subject: discrimination |
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And one cannot even pee on the general's grave - the line would be too long.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 1:17 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: discrimination
Good Afternoon Frits,
Please excuse my butting in.
I have been retired for over eighteen years.
I think forcing retirement at age sixty was the stupidest thing our industry ever did.
There are a few that should have retired at fifty! However most of us could have safely flown much longer.
Personally, I think I could easily have flown commercially to seventy and still been doing an excellent job.
I fly my Bonanza a couple of hundred hours a year.
IFR if, when, and as required.
I have no hesitation to fly to the published minima any time that is needed. I have many friends who have taken jobs as corporate pilots just to keep in the cockpit a few years longer. Most of them have been forced by insurance companies to retire at age seventy, but none have ever experienced any problems passing whatever annual check ride requirements were applied to their job.
The age sixty requirement was a political move made by a stupid retired Air Force general who hated airline pilots. He was a friend of the then president of American Airlines and when that president wanted to institute an age requirement on his airline, he got the general (FAA head at the time) to make it a rule. There was absolutely NO history that showed a need for early retirement at that time and there has never been an evaluation of pilot competency beyond age sixty that has ever noted the need for early retirement as a general rule. Some of the pilots in their late forties and early fifties have shown cognitive loss and those pilots have been medically retired. That is just as it should be.
Considering the regulatory monitoring that we all must endure and the careful evaluation that our copilots make of our competency, I do not believe there should be any forced retirement age, but sixty-five is a LOT more practical than was age sixty.
Give me a week or two to get back up to speed and I would happily take a flight check in any of the nineteen aircraft for which I am rated!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 12/16/2007 2:53:33 P.M. Central Standard Time, fritsabbing(at)yahoo.com writes:
| Quote: | Bill,
When you must/have to fly untill 65 there is not much room left for retirement.
Especially flying long haul.
I talk out of experience and here in the netherlands its still 56.
After that age and later your recovery is longer and its bad for your body.
If the whole flying is healthy anyway.
But I am glad I had and having that career.
How many years to go?
|
See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
[b]
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bowing74(at)earthlink.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:38 pm Post subject: discrimination |
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Fritz,
With the seniority I have, I can only say I don’t work very hard. I think I could keep this pace up for a long time.
Old Bob is exactly right. There is no data to support retirement at age 60.
Bilbo
Age- 54 (years young)
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frits Abbing
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 3:51 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: discrimination
Bill,
When you must/have to fly untill 65 there is not much room left for retirement.
Especially flying long haul.
I talk out of experience and here in the netherlands its still 56.
After that age and later your recovery is longer and its bad for your body.
If the whole flying is healthy anyway.
But I am glad I had and having that career.
How many years to go?
regards
Frits Abbing N812SC
----- Original Message ----
From: Bill Bow <bowing74(at)earthlink.net>
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 4:06:27 AM
Subject: discrimination
President Bush has signed H.R. 4343 raising the mandatory pilot retirement age from 60 to 65. Thursday, December 13.
Now some of us won¢t be fired until we are 65.
It¢s about damn time.
bilbo | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.ccs.com/" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com |
Be a better friend, newshound, an=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ "> Try it now. 012345678901234567
[quote][b]
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wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.c
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:35 am Post subject: discrimination |
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Folks,
Bob is spot on about the history, the then President of American Airlines lost a court battle with his pilots, so turned to his old buddy, (General) "Pete" Quesada,
first FAA Administrator. And the "age 60" rule was born!! Surprise, Surprise, on retirement from the FAA, Pete wound up on the AA Board.
We have never had a hard retiring age for any category of license down here in Australia, although until recently, over 60 was pretty much limited to Australian national airspace.
A dear friend of mine, now 76, is still flying as a Check Airman on C-47/DC-3, one aircraft he is currently flying, he first flew in Papua Nui Guinea in 1945, in his first civil job after de-mob from the RAAF. He was a top notch "stick and rudder" man when I first made his acquaintance about 40 years ago, and he still is!!
He can still make a T-6 stand up and whistle Dixie.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
At 08:17 17/12/2007, you wrote:
[quote] Good Afternoon Frits,
Please excuse my butting in.
I have been retired for over eighteen years.
I think forcing retirement at age sixty was the stupidest thing our industry ever did.
There are a few that should have retired at fifty! However most of us could have safely flown much longer.
Personally, I think I could easily have flown commercially to seventy and still been doing an excellent job.
I fly my Bonanza a couple of hundred hours a year.
IFR if, when, and as required.
I have no hesitation to fly to the published minima any time that is needed. I have many friends who have taken jobs as corporate pilots just to keep in the cockpit a few years longer. Most of them have been forced by insurance companies to retire at age seventy, but none have ever experienced any problems passing whatever annual check ride requirements were applied to their job.
The age sixty requirement was a political move made by a stupid retired Air Force general who hated airline pilots. He was a friend of the then president of American Airlines and when that president wanted to institute an age requirement on his airline, he got the general (FAA head at the time) to make it a rule. There was absolutely NO history that showed a need for early retirement at that time and there has never been an evaluation of pilot competency beyond age sixty that has ever noted the need for early retirement as a general rule. Some of the pilots in their late forties and early fifties have shown cognitive loss and those pilots have been medically retired. That is just as it should be.
Considering the regulatory monitoring that we all must endure and the careful evaluation that our copilots make of our competency, I do not believe there should be any forced retirement age, but sixty-five is a LOT more practical than was age sixty.
Give me a week or two to get back up to speed and I would happily take a flight check in any of the nineteen aircraft for which I am rated!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 12/16/2007 2:53:33 P.M. Central Standard Time, fritsabbing(at)yahoo.com writes:
Bill,
When you must/have to fly untill 65 there is not much room left for retirement.
Especially flying long haul.
I talk out of experience and here in the netherlands its still 56.
After that age and later your recovery is longer and its bad for your body.
If the whole flying is healthy anyway.
But I am glad I had and having that career.
How many years to go?
See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.
[b]
| | - The Matronics Commander-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List |
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bowing74(at)earthlink.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:56 am Post subject: discrimination |
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I didn’t know you knew Dixie down under.
Outstanding!
Sorry non Commander.
Bilbo
“down south in the land of cotton”
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of W J R HAMILTON
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 5:37 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: discrimination
Folks,
Bob is spot on about the history, the then President of American Airlines lost a court battle with his pilots, so turned to his old buddy, (General) "Pete" Quesada,
first FAA Administrator. And the "age 60" rule was born!! Surprise, Surprise, on retirement from the FAA, Pete wound up on the AA Board.
We have never had a hard retiring age for any category of license down here in Australia, although until recently, over 60 was pretty much limited to Australian national airspace.
A dear friend of mine, now 76, is still flying as a Check Airman on C-47/DC-3, one aircraft he is currently flying, he first flew in Papua Nui Guinea in 1945, in his first civil job after de-mob from the RAAF. He was a top notch "stick and rudder" man when I first made his acquaintance about 40 years ago, and he still is!!
He can still make a T-6 stand up and whistle Dixie.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
At 08:17 17/12/2007, you wrote:
Good Afternoon Frits,
Please excuse my butting in.
I have been retired for over eighteen years.
I think forcing retirement at age sixty was the stupidest thing our industry ever did.
There are a few that should have retired at fifty! However most of us could have safely flown much longer.
Personally, I think I could easily have flown commercially to seventy and still been doing an excellent job.
I fly my Bonanza a couple of hundred hours a year.
IFR if, when, and as required.
I have no hesitation to fly to the published minima any time that is needed. I have many friends who have taken jobs as corporate pilots just to keep in the cockpit a few years longer. Most of them have been forced by insurance companies to retire at age seventy, but none have ever experienced any problems passing whatever annual check ride requirements were applied to their job.
The age sixty requirement was a political move made by a stupid retired Air Force general who hated airline pilots. He was a friend of the then president of American Airlines and when that president wanted to institute an age requirement on his airline, he got the general (FAA head at the time) to make it a rule. There was absolutely NO history that showed a need for early retirement at that time and there has never been an evaluation of pilot competency beyond age sixty that has ever noted the need for early retirement as a general rule. Some of the pilots in their late forties and early fifties have shown cognitive loss and those pilots have been medically retired. That is just as it should be.
Considering the regulatory monitoring that we all must endure and the careful evaluation that our copilots make of our competency, I do not believe there should be any forced retirement age, but sixty-five is a LOT more practical than was age sixty.
Give me a week or two to get back up to speed and I would happily take a flight check in any of the nineteen aircraft for which I am rated!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 12/16/2007 2:53:33 P.M. Central Standard Time, fritsabbing(at)yahoo.com writes:
Bill,
When you must/have to fly untill 65 there is not much room left for retirement.
Especially flying long haul.
I talk out of experience and here in the netherlands its still 56.
After that age and later your recovery is longer and its bad for your body.
If the whole flying is healthy anyway.
But I am glad I had and having that career.
How many years to go?
See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
012345678901234
[quote][b]
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n395v
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: discrimination |
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This entire thread is starting to resemble another Bow Job.
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