Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - new member to the list

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

new member to the list

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

av8r2488(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:07 am Post subject: new member to the list

Reading all of the history on avid vs kitfox...I am with those who think its a good thing these guys got together...especially now that sport light had truly come to be......which brings me to my little story. I recently finished building a Glasair ITD and flew it for the first time this year...wonderful plane. 190mph in level cruise and a hotrod! Now I have come to realize that I will need to move to sport light and bought a Kitfox5 speedster (firewall back) and will build that.....need some suggestions and advice from fellow builders as to engine prop combinations and building hints....I am leaning towards the 7 cowling over the bump cowl and a 4 stroke engine (I have a jabiru2200).....any help this way would be great. The kit has all the factory upgrades, adjustable rudder pedals , electric trim, speedster tail, extra wing ribs..ect... never built a tube and fabric plane but I believe with a little help I will do just fine. Feel free to contact me

 direct  av8r2488(at)yahoo.com  GARY

Be a better friend, newshound, and 

know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:47 pm Post subject: new member to the list

I am not sure if the 5 is good for sport pilot.  I was thinking it was to

heavy.  I have a classic 4 so I am not that familiar with the 5.  I am

however sure that someone with a 5 can correct me if I am wrong. As for the

jabiru 2200 I have heard a lot of good reports.



--

jcrowder(at)lpbroadband.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:45 pm Post subject: new member to the list

The 5 is approximately the same as the 7 which is Kitfox's Light Sport

Offering.



Jim Crowder



Currently Installing a Jabiru 3300

On a Kitfox Series 5



[quote] --

tstaley(at)centurytel.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:57 pm Post subject: new member to the list

The original Kitfox 5 came out as 1400#, then went to the 1550#. The builder

recertified mine for 1500. Some say that as the builder you can list your

own weight. But the 5 and later are a little heavier than the 4's.

LeRoy

Sbennett3(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:13 pm Post subject: new member to the list

I was told that any 5,6,or7 was heavy for light sport.   Rules are simple, 1320 lb. or less gross.  I believe up to model 4 1200 is  good for light sport. Steve Bennett  Light sport cert. going for private  pilot. 



See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.

  [quote][b]

RRTRACK(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:18 pm Post subject: new member to the list

Steve

   If you are building a Kitfox you can just certify it as 1320# gross  airplane and if it meets all the other areas of the LSA it can be used as an  LSA. Even if it is certified as an Experimental Home Built. 

   If a Kitfox 5, 6, or 7 was already certified above 1320# gross then  it can never be used as an LSA. There is no going back.   

 Mark

Kitfox 5 Vixen

912UL IVO

Hartford,  Wisconsin





See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.

  [quote][b]

Jimz

Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Posts: 31

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject: new member to the list

As the builder you are allowed to set the gross weight. If you  increase the weight over the factory, you may have to document your tests.  

 Jim Z Series 5 1320 gross weight. 

 [quote]   ---

kmamjones(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject: new member to the list

I'm in the process of building a Series 7 and I  plan to have it specified at a gross weight of 1320 lbs. to qualify as light  sport.  It is my understanding that the empty weight of a 7 will be roughly  870 to 920 lbs. depending on engine, accessories and how good I am at keeping it  light. Lets say I achieve an empty weight of 900 lbs.  This will give  me 420 lbs. for people, fuel, oil and baggage.  The empty weight of a  Series IV 1200 is somewhat less.  I don't know the numbers for it.   It's gross weight I think is 1200 lbs.  Does this suggest that either one  would be OK for light sport?  I'm planning on using the 100 hp Rotax on my  Series 7.  Am I correct in assuming the same engine on the lighter Series  IV would provide better performance than the heavier 7 with the same engine, but  with perhaps a little less than 430 lbs. payload with that  engine?

  

 The Series 7 was designed (prior to the light sport  rules) as a bush type plane with a 1550 gross weight using at that time  relatively heavy Lycoming and Continental engines. Skystar advertised 150 lbs.  allowable in the baggage area. After the new light sport rules they introduced a  slightly forward sweep of the wings allowing for use of lighter Rotax engines  making them more acceptable for light sport use. So, if you want a light sport,  you simply specify your homebuilt Series 7 with a gross of 1320 lbs and its a  light sport - but with a lower permissible payload.  Your choice of engines  and other items that add weight determines the amount of payload permissible in  your new light sport airplane.

  

 If you want a bush plane to carry a heavier load  you use the Continental IO-240 without the forward wing sweep and have it  certified with a 1550 lb. gross weight.  With the Series 7 you can have it  either way, but you must make your decision before certification.  As  someone said in an earlier notice, if you have it certified initially as 1550  gross, you cannot later change your mind.

  

 I assume the folks in this group will let me know  if I'm incorrect in any way.

  

 Ken Jones

 [quote]   ---

MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:36 pm Post subject: new member to the list

Ken sez:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I assume the folks in this group will let me know if I'm incorrect in any way.


	


Good assumption, Ken.  



 	  Quote: 	
		  The empty weight of a Series IV 1200 is somewhat less.  I don't know 

the numbers for it.  It's gross weight I think is 1200 lbs.


	


My tricycle-gear Model IV-1200 Speedster with Rotax 912S came in at 

660 pounds empty.  I told the FAA that its maximum weight would be 

1230 and they didn't give me a hard time about it.  That left a 

useful load of 570 pounds.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Does this suggest that either one would be OK for light sport?


	


Yes, if the finished airplane meets the requirements for light sport aircraft.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Am I correct in assuming the same engine on the lighter Series IV 

would provide better performance than the heavier 7 with the same 

engine...?


	


Less weight + same power = better performance.



 	  Quote: 	
		  After the new light sport rules they introduced a slightly forward 

sweep of the wings allowing for use of lighter Rotax engines making 

them more acceptable for light sport use.


	


You'd want to sweep the wings forward with a heavier engine, not a 

lighter one.  A heavier engine would shift the center of gravity 

forward, requiring a corresponding forward shift of the center of 

lift, which can be accomplished with the forward sweep.



The aircraft I've seen with forward swept wings are usually earlier 

models with heavy engines.



 	  Quote: 	
		  If you want a bush plane to carry a heavier load you use the 

Continental IO-240 without the forward wing sweep and have it 

certified with a 1550 lb. gross weight.


	


You'd have an even greater payload if you used a lighter engine (such 

as the 912) at a max weight of 1550 due to the lower empty weight.



Mike G.

N728KF

Phoenix, AZ

dwparker

Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 6
Location: Westport, IN

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:14 am Post subject: Re: new member to the list

I just received the Airworthiness Certificate for my Series 7 last Wednesday. I certified it at the 1320# with no problem.



Ken, for your information my S7 weighed in at 796# empty weight. That weight is with most options, cabin heater, adjustable rudders, one piece turtle deck, and custom upholstery. I am running a 912S with a GSC 3 bladed prop. I also did not skimp on the finish - because I painted it yellow I needed to put down a cross coat of white Poly-Tone over the Poly-Spray before putting two cross coats of yellow finish on it. I would think you should be able to finish yours well under the 900# you targeted.



Dana Parker

N474DP Series 7 w/912S

Westport, IN

rdmac(at)swbell.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:23 pm Post subject: new member to the list

Ken,  

            My Series 7 came in at 800 lbs. empty with the Rotax 100 horse engine. After adding wheel pants and a few accessories it may have gone up to 825 but still with the Rotax you should to able to come in under 850 lbs even with a full panel. Be careful on registering in the Light Sport category. You can do that but then you will have to take the 8 hour repairman’s course to qualify for the repairman’s certificate so you can do your own condition inspections. This is what the FAA guys told me when I was getting ready to register my plane.    

     

Roger McConnell, Duncan, OK  

Model 7 Trigear, Rotax 912uls   

Flying sense Jan. 06  

  

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth and Alice Jones

 Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:59 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: new member to the list  

  

     

I'm in the process of building a Series 7 and I plan to have it specified at a gross weight of 1320 lbs. to qualify as light sport.  It is my understanding that the empty weight of a 7 will be roughly 870 to 920 lbs. depending on engine, accessories and how good I am at keeping it light. Lets say I achieve an empty weight of 900 lbs.  This will give me 420 lbs. for people, fuel, oil and baggage.  The empty weight of a Series IV 1200 is somewhat less.  I don't know the numbers for it.  It's gross weight I think is 1200 lbs.  Does this suggest that either one would be OK for light sport?  I'm planning on using the 100 hp Rotax on my Series 7.  Am I correct in assuming the same engine on the lighter Series IV would provide better performance than the heavier 7 with the same engine, but with perhaps a little less than 430 lbs. payload with that engine?  

    

   

    

The Series 7 was designed (prior to the light sport rules) as a bush type plane with a 1550 gross weight using at that time relatively heavy Lycoming and Continental engines. Skystar advertised 150 lbs. allowable in the baggage area. After the new light sport rules they introduced a slightly forward sweep of the wings allowing for use of lighter Rotax engines making them more acceptable for light sport use. So, if you want a light sport, you simply specify your homebuilt Series 7 with a gross of 1320 lbs and its a light sport - but with a lower permissible payload.  Your choice of engines and other items that add weight determines the amount of payload permissible in your new light sport airplane.  

    

   

    

If you want a bush plane to carry a heavier load you use the Continental IO-240 without the forward wing sweep and have it certified with a 1550 lb. gross weight.  With the Series 7 you can have it either way, but you must make your decision before certification.  As someone said in an earlier notice, if you have it certified initially as 1550 gross, you cannot later change your mind.  

    

   

    

I assume the folks in this group will let me know if I'm incorrect in any way.  

    

   

    

Ken Jones  

  [quote]    

---

kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:41 pm Post subject: new member to the list

You can certify as experimental and still fly it as a sport as long as it fits the deff  

   

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger McConnell

 Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 5:23 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: new member to the list  

  

   

Ken,  

            My Series 7 came in at 800 lbs. empty with the Rotax 100 horse engine. After adding wheel pants and a few accessories it may have gone up to 825 but still with the Rotax you should to able to come in under 850 lbs even with a full panel. Be careful on registering in the Light Sport category. You can do that but then you will have to take the 8 hour repairman’s course to qualify for the repairman’s certificate so you can do your own condition inspections. This is what the FAA guys told me when I was getting ready to register my plane.    

     

Roger McConnell, Duncan, OK  

Model 7 Trigear, Rotax 912uls   

Flying sense Jan. 06  

  

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth and Alice Jones

 Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:59 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: new member to the list  

  

     

I'm in the process of building a Series 7 and I plan to have it specified at a gross weight of 1320 lbs. to qualify as light sport.  It is my understanding that the empty weight of a 7 will be roughly 870 to 920 lbs. depending on engine, accessories and how good I am at keeping it light. Lets say I achieve an empty weight of 900 lbs.  This will give me 420 lbs. for people, fuel, oil and baggage.  The empty weight of a Series IV 1200 is somewhat less.  I don't know the numbers for it.  It's gross weight I think is 1200 lbs.  Does this suggest that either one would be OK for light sport?  I'm planning on using the 100 hp Rotax on my Series 7.  Am I correct in assuming the same engine on the lighter Series IV would provide better performance than the heavier 7 with the same engine, but with perhaps a little less than 430 lbs. payload with that engine?  

    

   

    

The Series 7 was designed (prior to the light sport rules) as a bush type plane with a 1550 gross weight using at that time relatively heavy Lycoming and Continental engines. Skystar advertised 150 lbs. allowable in the baggage area. After the new light sport rules they introduced a slightly forward sweep of the wings allowing for use of lighter Rotax engines making them more acceptable for light sport use. So, if you want a light sport, you simply specify your homebuilt Series 7 with a gross of 1320 lbs and its a light sport - but with a lower permissible payload.  Your choice of engines and other items that add weight determines the amount of payload permissible in your new light sport airplane.  

    

   

    

If you want a bush plane to carry a heavier load you use the Continental IO-240 without the forward wing sweep and have it certified with a 1550 lb. gross weight.  With the Series 7 you can have it either way, but you must make your decision before certification.  As someone said in an earlier notice, if you have it certified initially as 1550 gross, you cannot later change your mind.  

    

   

    

I assume the folks in this group will let me know if I'm incorrect in any way.  

    

   

    

Ken Jones  

  [quote]    

---

kmamjones(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:33 pm Post subject: new member to the list

Thanks Michael:  You are right. The forward sweep was for the heavier 

engine.  I guess I was tired when I wrote that. I think Skystar introduced 

the rearward sweep to accommodate the Rotax engines.



Ken Jones

---

kmamjones(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:41 pm Post subject: new member to the list

Thanks Dana, your empty weight of 796 lbs. is really good news.  I had been 

led to believe an S7 would be much heavier.  I don't recall were I got that 

information, but I'm glad I was wrong.  Another example of good data I 

receive from this list.



Ken Jones

---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:16 am Post subject: new member to the list

From what I’ve been reading here.  FARs are not my strong point, being in another country, this is true as long as the plane has never been registered outside the definition of an LSA.  E.g. if the plane has ever had an Ivo IFA prop installed it is not eligible to be registered LSA.  Same thing if it has been registered at say 1500 lb.  

   

   

Noel Loveys  

Campbellton, N.D.B., Newfoundland, Canada  

E-Mail: noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca)  

Kitfox III-A, 582, B-Box, Ivo IFA  

Aerocet 1100 floats.  

CDN Rec-PP, AME intern.  

       

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kirk hull

 Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 8:11 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: new member to the list  

  

  

   

You can certify as experimental and still fly it as a sport as long as it fits the deff  

   

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger McConnell

 Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 5:23 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: new member to the list  

  

   

Ken,  

            My Series 7 came in at 800 lbs. empty with the Rotax 100 horse engine. After adding wheel pants and a few accessories it may have gone up to 825 but still with the Rotax you should to able to come in under 850 lbs even with a full panel. Be careful on registering in the Light Sport category. You can do that but then you will have to take the 8 hour repairman’s course to qualify for the repairman’s certificate so you can do your own condition inspections. This is what the FAA guys told me when I was getting ready to register my plane.    

     

Roger McConnell, Duncan, OK  

Model 7 Trigear, Rotax 912uls   

Flying sense Jan. 06  

  

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth and Alice Jones

 Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:59 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: new member to the list  

  

     

I'm in the process of building a Series 7 and I plan to have it specified at a gross weight of 1320 lbs. to qualify as light sport.  It is my understanding that the empty weight of a 7 will be roughly 870 to 920 lbs. depending on engine, accessories and how good I am at keeping it light. Lets say I achieve an empty weight of 900 lbs.  This will give me 420 lbs. for people, fuel, oil and baggage.  The empty weight of a Series IV 1200 is somewhat less.  I don't know the numbers for it.  It's gross weight I think is 1200 lbs.  Does this suggest that either one would be OK for light sport?  I'm planning on using the 100 hp Rotax on my Series 7.  Am I correct in assuming the same engine on the lighter Series IV would provide better performance than the heavier 7 with the same engine, but with perhaps a little less than 430 lbs. payload with that engine?  

    

   

    

The Series 7 was designed (prior to the light sport rules) as a bush type plane with a 1550 gross weight using at that time relatively heavy Lycoming and Continental engines. Skystar advertised 150 lbs. allowable in the baggage area. After the new light sport rules they introduced a slightly forward sweep of the wings allowing for use of lighter Rotax engines making them more acceptable for light sport use. So, if you want a light sport, you simply specify your homebuilt Series 7 with a gross of 1320 lbs and its a light sport - but with a lower permissible payload.  Your choice of engines and other items that add weight determines the amount of payload permissible in your new light sport airplane.  

    

   

    

If you want a bush plane to carry a heavier load you use the Continental IO-240 without the forward wing sweep and have it certified with a 1550 lb. gross weight.  With the Series 7 you can have it either way, but you must make your decision before certification.  As someone said in an earlier notice, if you have it certified initially as 1550 gross, you cannot later change your mind.  

    

   

    

I assume the folks in this group will let me know if I'm incorrect in any way.  

    

   

    

Ken Jones  

  [quote]    

---

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

RRTRACK(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:39 am Post subject: new member to the list

Yes, register as an Experimental Home Built with 1320# gross or less and  without the IFA prop or anything else that would disqualify your plane from the  LSA category. Registering the plane as an E-LSA is no longer an option as the  deadline soon arrives. (unless they change the deadline of Jan 31, 2008)   

 Mark

Kitfox 5 Vixen

912UL IVO

Hartford,  Wisconsin





See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.

  [quote][b]

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum