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jb92563

Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 314
Location: Southern California

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:38 pm Post subject: How do you like your FireFly?

I have been wondering how people have been liking their FireFly Kolbs.



I am particularly interested in the Part 103 ones that are really legal.



I understand that if you have the Rotax 447 equiped version you should be able to keep under the required weight, but how does it perform with that engine?

_________________
Ray

Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)
Moni MotorGlider
Schreder HP-11 Glider
Grob 109 Motorglider

Do Not Archive

Ralph B

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Mound Minnesota

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: How do you like your FireFly?

 	  jb92563 wrote: 	
		  I have been wondering how people have been liking their FireFly Kolbs.



I am particularly interested in the Part 103 ones that are really legal.



I understand that if you have the Rotax 447 equiped version you should be able to keep under the required weight, but how does it perform with that engine? 	




My Original Firestar is very much like a Firefly except for the weight (319 lbs.) It came with a Rotax 377 engine and performed well. The 447 engine that I have now gives it a little more punch and I can cruise at a lower RPM to make it last longer.

_________________
Ralph B

Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours

jb92563

Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 314
Location: Southern California

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: How do you like your FireFly?

A FireFly driver (UL's are not aircraft so we drive them not fly....)  

said that with the 447 engine it seemed overpowered and he installed a Victor 1+ instead and its much better behaved.



I guess 40HP accounts for the 1,000 fpm climb rate and is more than most people need.



I figure it comes in handy on short fields with tree lines or other obstacles, making it a nice UL-STOL.



I have flown the Lazair(See my ID pic) and with a 400 fpm climb in a High Desert environment (Higher density altitude)  the greater power available would be nice....not that you have to use it all.  



I will find out with My UltraStar soon enough as I am nearly ready to go flying it. 



Still need to engineer the brake solution. I have some 4.5" drum brakes to install somehow.



Also need to install the fuel sender in the fiberglass tank and hook it up to the E1 engine monitor.



Can you believe it, I have an all digital "Glass"  panel in my UltraStar ....no analog instruments here...times have changed.

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Ray

Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)
Moni MotorGlider
Schreder HP-11 Glider
Grob 109 Motorglider

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bransom(at)ucdavis.edu
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:37 pm Post subject: How do you like your FireFly?

Interesting ...I just reweighed my Firestar KXP last wknd and it is 

320lbs empty.  That is with 447, warp prop, 8" tires, Azusa drum brakes, 

no streamline struts,  (and 7 rib wings).

-Ben

Ralph B wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 jb92563 wrote:

> I have been wondering how people have been liking their FireFly Kolbs.

>

> I am particularly interested in the Part 103 ones that are really legal.

>

> I understand that if you have the Rotax 447 equiped version you should be able to keep under the required weight, but how does it perform with that engine?

>     

 My Original Firestar is very much like a Firefly except for the weight (319 lbs.) It came with a Rotax 377 engine and performed well. The 447 engine that I have now gives it a little more punch and I can cruise at a lower RPM to make it last longer.

 --------

 Ralph B

 Original Firestar

 N91493 E-AB

 21 years flying it

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153357#153357

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:20 pm Post subject: How do you like your FireFly?

> A FireFly driver said that with the 447 engine it seemed overpowered and 

he installed a Victor 1+ instead and its much better behaved.

 > Ray

Ray:



Based on that statement, a rubber band might be too much for him.



Much better behaved with a Victor???  Horse manure!



john h - Who finds the 447 powered FF a delight to fly, a scaled down Sling 

Shot, a perfect combination of aircraft and engine.

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject: How do you like your FireFly?

I'm a MkIII owner/driver, but I have flown a Firefly with 447... it's performance is terrific, short takeoffs, fast cruise (which, by itself, will break the 103 rule), and a whole lot of fun to fly.  Highly recommended! 



  -- Robert



On Dec 20, 2007 2:38 PM, jb92563 <jb92563(at)yahoo.com (jb92563(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "jb92563" <jb92563(at)yahoo.com (jb92563(at)yahoo.com)>



I have been wondering how people have been liking their FireFly Kolbs.



I am particularly interested in the Part 103 ones that are really legal. 



I understand that if you have the Rotax 447 equiped version you should be able to keep under the required weight, but how does it perform with that engine?



--------

Ray

Riverside County, CA



Do Not Archive 





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153350#153350





 



[b]

_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:22 am Post subject: How do you like your FireFly?

At 07:18 PM 12/20/07 -0600, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 > A FireFly driver said that with the 447 engine it seemed overpowered and 

he installed a Victor 1+ instead and its much better behaved.

 > Ray

Ray:

Based on that statement, a rubber band might be too much for him.

Much better behaved with a Victor???  Horse manure!

john h - Who finds the 447 powered FF a delight to fly, a scaled down Sling 

Shot, a perfect combination of aircraft and engine.

mkIII 

FireFlyers,

The orginal request was made about performance of a Part 103-7 FireFly.  And 

my answer was given in that context.  I don't know how many on the List have 

flown a legal ultra light vehicle FireFly or currently own one, but I have 

noticed quite a few currently sport N numbers.

Anyone can take an experimental and boost the empty weigh by adding more 

engine or whatever, but it takes some effort to stay within the Part 103-7 

bounds.  If you have or have built a FireFly with less than 15 inch chord 

ailerons and it is close to 254 pounds empty with a Rotax 447 mounted, it is 

overpowered.  All the comparisons you want to make to Kolbras and other 

forms of Kolb heavy metal will not alter that fact.  Check out AC 103-7 

Appendix 1, 2, 3 & 4.

It is good that by the end of the year there will be no fat ultra light 

vehicles as they will change into undocumented experimentals and illegals.  

It was good to hear from Pat that they are offering the FireFly in UK with a 

27 hp engine. It seems to fly very well.

The List seems to be dominated by the thought that more power is better.  

But with the addition of power comes increased weight, wing loading and 

stall speeds, increased dynamic loading of the air frame, which means things 

start cracking.  These must be bulked up and so more weight is added.  If 

you want to do this, it is your right, but cut us guys who want to remain 

Part 103-7 legal a little slack.

Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

ulflyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:35 am Post subject: How do you like your FireFly?

Used to have a FireFly for a number of years.  I assure you it is not under powered with a 447.  It's like a little sports car version of the Kolbs, small and quick.  It flies very well, gets off great.  My partner and I were not exactly light weights, both in the 250# plus area.  It is not for a real tall person, my partner was 5-10".  If your much over that you head can start hitting the wing root cover.  Fun little airplane that doesn't take up a lot of hangar space.  Were were fat and built it knowing we would be.  We had the larger dia, wheel barrow wheels, (didn't like the 5", worked the gear pretty hard on rough turf).  Also had brakes and a very well equipped instrument panel plus the full enclosure, VLS chute.  We had the expansion go-kart type brakes, if doing over I would adapt it over to band brakes, they work better and weigh a lot less.  Had flown it with the short wind screen and the full enclosure, much nicer flying with that.  The wind flying it seems to be much worst than I remember a motor cycle being.  I do feel it is a little more challenging airplane to fly, liked that but probably not the best plane for a person just learning to flying or those with minimal flight time.  Heard that the new owner changed to different tires/wheels and it improved its ground handling.  (It had the thin Chinns tires on it as came on the wheels from Kolb.)  Since both of us were old tail wheel pilots, we didn't have any problems with it.  Do a search on guy morgan on the list regarding his changing the tires/wheels.  It was fun to fly, but could only carry 5 gallons of fuel as configured.  We found we could stuff a couple 2-1/2 gal. jerry cans in around the existing tank.  Before we sold it we were looking into ways of increasing fuel capacity to give range to make it to and from other area airports especially with any major head wind.  We flew it in fairly windy conditions but again we were experienced pilots and had hundreds of hours of tail wheel time under our belt.

 jerb



 

 At 12:10 AM 12/21/2007, you wrote:

 [quote]I'm a MkIII owner/driver, but I have flown a Firefly with 447... it's performance is terrific, short takeoffs, fast cruise (which, by itself, will break the 103 rule), and a whole lot of fun to fly.  Highly recommended! 



   -- Robert



 On Dec 20, 2007 2:38 PM, jb92563 <jb92563(at)yahoo.com (jb92563(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

   --> Kolb-List message posted by: "jb92563" <jb92563(at)yahoo.com (jb92563(at)yahoo.com)>



  I have been wondering how people have been liking their FireFly Kolbs.



  I am particularly interested in the Part 103 ones that are really legal. 



  I understand that if you have the Rotax 447 equiped version you should be able to keep under the required weight, but how does it perform with that engine?



  --------

  Ray

  Riverside County, CA



  Do Not Archive 



 



 

  Read this topic online here:



   http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153350#153350



 



 



 



 

  



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MKIIIX040

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 123
Location: Millinocket, Maine

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:42 am Post subject: How do you like your FireFly?

I think your right Jack but don't be too hard on John.

I think he probably went out west to meet up with Mat.

They blew all the contribution money in Vegas and are now little burnt out 

On cocaine and hookers.



Vic

Having fun in Maine

_________________
MKIIIX040
912UL

Steve Boetto

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 365

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:44 am Post subject: How do you like your FireFly?

I can only speak in regard to a Firefly on floats with a 447.

  

 Take Off on Glassy water------- 150 ft

 Climb at Sea Level -----  At least 900 fpm

 Handling ----- quick and nimble   

                                                                          



  





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Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:01 am Post subject: How do you like your FireFly?

It is good that by the end of the year there will be no fat ultra light

vehicles as they will change into undocumented experimentals and illegals.

The legal status of a "fat ultralight" does not change at all.  They are no more illegal on Feb 1st than they are now.   People that are making money on the SP transitions like to imply otherwise.  I guess we will see. 



Bryan Dever

   [quote][b]

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:02 am Post subject: How do you like your FireFly?

Jack and guys and girls,



  Very well stated, Jack.  I think you deserve quite a bit of credit for trying to maintain a legal Part 103 ultralight.  It is no easy task, I'm sure, balancing necessary performance and safety requirements within such stringent perameters.



  Although this isn't the direction I'm headed with my current Kolb, as I stated a few days back, there may be a Firefly in my future...someday.  It is comforting to know that a particular aircraft is available, with excellent performance and handling, and still remain inside the guidelines of the regulations.



 It doesn't take years and years to build a Firefly, does it?  Just curious............



Mike Welch in SW Chilly Utah, w/ no snow, working on tailfeather fabric today, in my heated shop, listening to Rush.



  



 	  Quote: 	
		   FireFlyers,



 The orginal request was made about performance of a Part 103-7 FireFly. And

 my answer was given in that context. I don't know how many on the List have

 flown a legal ultra light vehicle FireFly or currently own one, but I have

 noticed quite a few currently sport N numbers.



 Anyone can take an experimental and boost the empty weigh by adding more

 engine or whatever, but it takes some effort to stay within the Part 103-7

 bounds. If you have or have built a FireFly with less than 15 inch chord

 ailerons and it is close to 254 pounds empty with a Rotax 447 mounted, it is

 overpowered. All the comparisons you want to make to Kolbras and other

 forms of Kolb heavy metal will not alter that fact. Check out AC 103-7

 Appendix 1, 2, 3 & 4.



 It is good that by the end of the year there will be no fat ultra light

 vehicles as they will change into undocumented experimentals and illegals.

 It was good to hear from Pat that they are offering the FireFly in UK with a

 27 hp engine. It seems to fly very well.



 The List seems to be dominated by the thought that more power is better.

 But with the addition of power comes increased weight, wing loading and

 stall speeds, increased dynamic loading of the air frame, which means things

 start cracking. These must be bulked up and so more weight is added. If

 you want to do this, it is your right, but cut us guys who want to remain

 Part 103-7 legal a little slack.



 Jack B. Hart FF004

 Winchester, IN




	


_________________________________________________________________

The best games are on Xbox 360.  Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console.

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/

dhkey(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:46 pm Post subject: How do you like your FireFly?

good choice of music, you'll probably be done before they tour again.

[quote] From: mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Re: How do you like your FireFly?

 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:00:36 -0800

 --> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>

 Jack and guys and girls,

 Very well stated, Jack. I think you deserve quite a bit of credit for trying to maintain a legal Part 103 ultralight. It is no easy task, I'm sure, balancing necessary performance and safety requirements within such stringent perameters.

 Although this isn't the direction I'm headed with my current Kolb, as I stated a few days back, there may be a Firefly in my future...someday. It is comforting to know that a particular aircraft is available, with excellent performance and handling, and still remain inside the guidelines of the regulations.

 It doesn't take years and years to build a Firefly, does it? Just curious............

 Mike Welch in SW Chilly Utah, w/ no snow, working on tailfeather fabric today, in my heated shop, listening to Rush.

 > FireFlyers,

 >

 > The orginal request was made about performance of a Part 103-7 FireFly. And

 > my answer was given in that context. I don't know how many on the List have

 > flown a legal ultra light vehicle FireFly or currently own one, but I have

 > noticed quite a few currently sport N numbers.

 >

 > Anyone can take an experimental and boost the empty weigh by adding more

 > engine or whatever, but it takes some effort to stay within the Part 103-7

 > bounds. If you have or have built a FireFly with less than 15 inch chord

 > ailerons and it is close to 254 pounds empty with a Rotax 447 mounted, it is

 > overpowered. All the comparisons you want to make to Kolbras and other

 > forms of Kolb heavy metal will not alter that fact. Check out AC 103-7

 > Appendix 1, 2, 3 & 4.

 >

 > It is good that by the end of the year there will be no fat ultra light

 > vehicles as they will change into undocumented experimentals and illegals.

 > It was good to hear from Pat that they are offering the FireFly in UK with a

 > 27 hp engine. It seems to fly very well.

 >

 > The List seems to be dominated by the thought that more power is better.

 > But with the addition of power comes increased weight, wing loading and

 > stall speeds, increased dynamic loading of the air frame, which means things

 > start cracking. These must be bulked up and so more weight is added. If

 > you want to do this, it is your right, but cut us guys who want to remain

 > Part 103-7 legal a little slack.

 >

 > Jack B. Hart FF004

 > Winchester, IN

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 _________________________________________________________________

 The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console.

 http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/

 ===================

   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject: How do you like your FireFly?

Thanks Dave, but I was referring to Limbaugh.     8>)



  I finished the Poly Fiber fabric on the MkIII fuselage and got one coat of Poly Spray.  Essentially today all I had to do is all the "touch up" work, like edges, and misc. reinforcements.  I did a fantastic job on the Poly Fiber, if I do say so myself.  That, or it's just easy, whichever.  Anyway, the fuselage looks just plain awesome....

 

  I heard once I ain't braggin' if it's true.



Mike Welch....headed to Missouri on Monday to sight-see/vacation.  



Do Not Archive



________________________________



From: dhkey(at)msn.com

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: How do you like your FireFly?

Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:46:03 -0600





good choice of music, you'll probably be done before they tour again.



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Re: How do you like your FireFly?

 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:00:36 -0800



 

 Jack and guys and girls,



 Very well stated, Jack. I think you deserve quite a bit of credit for trying to maintain a legal Part 103 ultralight. It is no easy task, I'm sure, balancing necessary performance and safety requirements within such stringent perameters.



 Although this isn't the direction I'm headed with my current Kolb, as I stated a few days back, there may be a Firefly in my future...someday. It is comforting to know that a particular aircraft is available, with excellent performance and handling, and still remain inside the guidelines of the regulations.



 It doesn't take years and years to build a Firefly, does it? Just curious............



 Mike Welch in SW Chilly Utah, w/ no snow, working on tailfeather fabric today, in my heated shop, listening to Rush.



> FireFlyers,

>

> The orginal request was made about performance of a Part 103-7 FireFly. And

> my answer was given in that context. I don't know how many on the List have

> flown a legal ultra light vehicle FireFly or currently own one, but I have

> noticed quite a few currently sport N numbers.

>

> Anyone can take an experimental and boost the empty weigh by adding more

> engine or whatever, but it takes some effort to stay within the Part 103-7

> bounds. If you have or have built a FireFly with less than 15 inch chord

> ailerons and it is close to 254 pounds empty with a Rotax 447 mounted, it is

> overpowered. All the comparisons you want to make to Kolbras and other

> forms of Kolb heavy metal will not alter that fact. Check out AC 103-7

> Appendix 1, 2, 3 & 4.

>

> It is good that by the end of the year there will be no fat ultra light

> vehicles as they will change into undocumented experimentals and illegals.

> It was good to hear from Pat that they are offering the FireFly in UK with a

> 27 hp engine. It seems to fly very well.

>

> The List seems to be dominated by the thought that more power is better.

> But with the addition of power comes increased weight, wing loading and

> stall speeds, increased dynamic loading of the air frame, which means things

> start cracking. These must be bulked up and so more weight is added. If

> you want to do this, it is your right, but cut us guys who want to remain

> Part 103-7 legal a little slack.

>

> Jack B. Hart FF004

> Winchester, IN

>



 _________________________________________________________________

 The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console.

 http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/



 ===================




	




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JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: How do you like your FireFly?

I think the Firefly would be a really fun plane to own, although I would not even consider making it 103 legal.   Building it as an experimental and putting an N number on it is not hard at all.  One could end up with a much better and durable plane by adding a couple more pounds.



As far as engine, I would put a 503 on it, much more reliable an better than the 447.  As far as some that say its overpowered, those are guys that have small engines and try to convince themselves that they made the correct choice by having a small, sub standard engine...   Nothing says you need to fly around at high power all the time, but lots of power is a really great thing to have when you need it.  More power is also safer, will get you out of trouble when you need it, you will get off the ground quicker, and on takeoff you will also be a lot higher at the end of runway..  If the engine quits on takeoff, you will have several hundred feet more altitude then they poor guy with the small, very light engine.



I have flown with a lot of Learjet pilots over the years, and every one of them loved the 45 degree climb-outs, and quick takeoffs.   I have NEVER heard anyone say that any plane they actually flew had to much power.  The only people I ever hear talk about some planes "having to much power" are pilots of doggy, sluggish airplanes that are trying to convince themselves that a lack of power is a good thing.



Mike



MK-III Xtra  912-S And loving the steep climbs

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

ulflyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:57 pm Post subject: How do you like your FireFly?

Mike,

Do you have any stick time in a FireFly, I have and there is plenty 

of power there with a 447.



Our 447 worked fine and mine on my Hawk so far has performed 

well.  While I will agree the 503 is a good engine, (especially like 

oil injection no premix - less stale fuel to deal with) it would just 

add more weight to the airframe.  Got to remember the FireFly is a 

light airplane compared to a FireStar and you need to consider the 

specified gross weight limit of the airframe.



As for building it to meet the 254# limit, I'm confident it can be 

done - no extras.  I know what ours weighed and what contributed to 

the weight.  Go with 5" inch wheels, band brakes if any, wood prop, 

bare bone instruments (non-sensitive altimeter) - air speed, and toss 

up between analog EGT/CHT gauges or Grand Rapids Technologies EIS, 

and if you must, the open wind screen rather than the full 

enclosure.  (I would still take the EIS, it's a wonderful piece of 

equipment.)  As for climb out at our weight (both plane and our full 

figures) we still normally pushed in excess of 1000 F/S on climb 

out.  We had an electric Variometer like used in gliders - was very 

sensitive and accurate.

jerb



At 08:11 PM 12/21/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



I think the Firefly would be a really fun plane to own, although I 

would not even consider making it 103 legal.   Building it as an 

experimental and putting an N number on it is not hard at all.  One 

could end up with a much better and durable plane by adding a couple 

more pounds.



As far as engine, I would put a 503 on it, much more reliable an 

better than the 447.  As far as some that say its overpowered, those 

are guys that have small engines and try to convince themselves that 

they made the correct choice by having a small, sub standard 

engine...   Nothing says you need to fly around at high power all 

the time, but lots of power is a really great thing to have when you 

need it.  More power is also safer, will get you out of trouble when 

you need it, you will get off the ground quicker, and on takeoff you 

will also be a lot higher at the end of runway..  If the engine 

quits on takeoff, you will have several hundred feet more altitude 

then they poor guy with the small, very light engine.



I have flown with a lot of Learjet pilots over the years, and every 

one of them loved the 45 degree climb-outs, and quick takeoffs.   I 

have NEVER heard anyone say that any plane they actually flew had to 

much power.  The only people I ever hear talk about some planes 

"having to much power" are pilots of doggy, sluggish airplanes that 

are trying to convince themselves that a lack of power is a good thing.



Mike



MK-III Xtra  912-S And loving the steep climbs 



--------

&quot;NO FEAR&quot; -  If you have no fear you did not go as fast as 

you could have !!!



Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S





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Steve Boetto

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 365

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:03 am Post subject: How do you like your FireFly?

In a message dated 12/21/2007 11:58:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  ulflyer(at)verizon.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  The only    people I ever hear talk about some planes 

 	  Quote: 	
		  "having to much power" are    pilots of doggy, sluggish airplanes that 

are trying to convince    themselves that a lack of power is a good  thing.



Mike

	

	


 

 Mike, the Firefly is a VERY Mission Specific aircraft,  It was  designed from the tires up to :

  

 Be Part 103

 Use a 447

 Be exciting to fly

  

 It is one of the few aircraft that meet that goal. (probably the only  one)

  

 The Part 103 allowance

 Aircraft   254

 Floats      60

 BRS        24

 ____________

 Total      338

   

 Mine weighs 337

  



 A 447 vs a 503 is not an issue of too much power, it is one of too  much vibrating mass.

 There is "Firefly" designed to use a 503 and be registered EAB. It is  called a Firestar II.

  

 If you get a chance one day fly up to Bartow Airport and I will pick you  up, It's about 3 miles. I can strap you into a Firefly with a 447 and a 60#  handicap of floats.

  

 "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, It's the size of the fight in  the dog."  Mark Twain

  

 (My apologies to Bob N. if I got that wrong)

  

   

              

  



 Steve  B

Firefly 007/Floats

do not archive



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JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: How do you like your FireFly?

Unfortunately, I can only have one Kolb...  Being that my wife likes to fly, the MK-III Xtra was the logical choice for me, although I would like to try them all  



I also fly a 103 trike with a 447, its a nice setup, but some guys put 503's on them and say its a great upgrade !  As far as I am concerned, for flying around the local area, the smaller the plane, the more fun it is 



Mike

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"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

jim

Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 107
Location: N. Idaho

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: How do you like your FireFly?

I have a Firefly with a 503.  I haven't flown one with a 447, but my airplane always wants to pitch up and fly left (left wing very heavy).  This is because of the extra weight and torque of the 503.  The trim tab on the left aileron is already full up.



I expected the 503 to climb out at 1500 fpm but it's more like 1000 fpm from my home field (2500 msl).  



If I were to buy or build another Firefly, I would definitely use the 447.  I think the only thing I would miss on the 503 is the oil injection.



To be 103 legal in the Firefly, you are limited to 2-bladed wood prop,small wheels,  no brakes, no or limited gages, 1 coat of paint, short windscreen.



I have the short windscreen.  It is very wind.  I actually think it would be better to take it off completely.  The short windshield seems to put all the turbulent air right at head.



Mine has the gap seal removed (between wings).  I am 6-01 and if it were there, I think my head wouldn't fit in the airplane.



Mine performs very well in turbulence and handles winds well.  Ailerons are heavy in cruise, but fine during approach.



Jim

N. Idaho

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Jim
N. Idaho

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:19 am Post subject: How do you like your FireFly?

> I have a Firefly with a 503.  I haven't flown one with a 447, but my 

airplane always wants to pitch up and fly left (left wing very heavy).  This 

is because of the extra weight and torque of the 503.  The trim tab on the 

left aileron is already full up.

 > Jim

Jim:



Don't think the 503 is causing your out of trim problem.  If anything, the 

increased thrust of the 503 would cause a nose down pitch.



Probably have too much incidence right wing, or not enough in the left wing.



Ailerons can be dropped a tad to correct the nose up pitch trim.



Call Kolb and get a new adjustable universal for the drag strut attachment. 

Then you can adjust incidence to correct your roll problem.



john h

mkIII

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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

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