Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - 601 and wing failiers

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

601 and wing failiers
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

John75142

Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 56
Location: Kaufman, TX

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:34 pm Post subject: 601 and wing failiers

Just a thought and it probably ain't a good one but what about filling 

certain cavities with a low expansion foam.

---

_________________
John Short

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:01 pm Post subject: 601 and wing failiers

It had better be an open cell foam or it will expand with altitude and  

bulge the skin outward. In any case it will add some weight. It will  

add even more weight and will promote corrosion if it absorbs water.



On Dec 20, 2007, at 5:32 PM, John Short wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 >



 Just a thought and it probably ain't a good one but what about  

 filling certain cavities with a low expansion foam.


	




-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

ronlee

Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 141

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: 601 and wing failiers

The Titan has a foam filled D-Cell.

_________________
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona

ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:32 pm Post subject: 601 and wing failiers

You guys have it all wrong you need to fill the wings with helium...



Art

do not archive

--- John Short <creativesigns(at)embarqmail.com> wrote:



[quote] 

 

 Just a thought and it probably ain't a good one but what about filling 

 certain cavities with a low expansion foam.

 

 

 ---

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: 601 and wing failiers

Anyone ever wish that they had never asked a question?

_________________
“Always do what you are afraid to do.”
R.W. Emerson (1803-1882)

"Real freedom is the sustained act of being an individual." WW - 2009

"Life is a good deal...it's worth it" Feb 1969
Dorothy McCune

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:18 am Post subject: Re: 601 and wing failiers

Probably a bad idea. Other than the obvious weight penalty you would have to do a complete engineering test to see how the weight out in the wings would effect g-loading.

 	  John75142 wrote: 	
		  Just a thought and it probably ain't a good one but what about filling 

certain cavities with a low expansion foam.

---

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

shilcom

Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 63

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:44 am Post subject: 601 and wing failiers

>>I'd  have to guess 

 	  Quote: 	
		  > the wing is considerable stronger without the wing  locker>>

  
	


 I wouldn't worry about the wing locker area, as I'm  sure heinz has put adequate doublers in the wing locker area.  Highest  stress in positive G mode for the top area should be nearer the   fuselage.  Bob U. 

 [quote]   ---

Iberplanes

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 174
Location: Igualada - Barcelona - Spain

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:54 am Post subject: 601 and wing failiers

Hi list,



That is a BAD idea. Today a friend of mime just told me a about a well known 

Zephyr pilot that crash and was dead for that reason. His hangar was next to 

ours.. It would change the way the wing is supposed to act and move "between 

limits".



Take care,



---

_________________
Alberto Martin
601 XL - Jabiru 3300
http://www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain

John75142

Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 56
Location: Kaufman, TX

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:20 am Post subject: 601 and wing failiers

Sounds reasonable it would probably stiffen the structure to much.



Well I said it is was just a thought and probably a bad one but for a second 

it kind of made sense.

Merry Christmas to all.



---

_________________
John Short

PatrickW

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:40 am Post subject: Re: 601 and wing failiers

 	  daveaustin2(at)primus.ca wrote: 	
		  Can I suggest changing all 6061T6 to 2024T3 for greater strength and making everything twice as thick? 	




Could call it a "601 RV".  



Patrick

XL/Corvair

rsteele(at)rjsit.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:11 pm Post subject: 601 and wing failiers

I'm no aeronautical engineer and I've certainly never analyzed this

wing, but I do have an engineering degree and you sort of get a feel for

these things.  In a positive G load, the upper skin probably carries no

(structural - like the spar) load at all - it would be in compression

and I'm pretty certain it's compressive strength is going to be

considered zero for this purpose.  It should actually have some amount

of tension in from the lift generating forces.



In negative G loads which are smaller than the positive, the upper skin

would certainly be in tension, and carrying a small part of the load,

but at the point where the lockers are located, the load won't be close

to the maximum, which is at the wing root.  



Really, the issue is stiffness, which can be affected also.  The big

question is, do the added bits that make up the locker, along with the

hole in the skin, increase or decrease the stiffness of that area of the

wing.  Ideally neither, and I'm betting, because I'm getting wing

lockers, that this is the very close to the case.  Don't forget that

there are fasteners all the way around the cover which should make the

cover act as a shear plate, so there likely very little lose of strength

from the hole at all.



Ron



PS when I went on the demo ride, the plane was probably close to max

gross due to my size, there was a gusty 25 knot wind blowing and we were

doing max cruise.  It was rough as all get-out.  The plane was just as

solid as you could possible want, and very stable.  It just plain felt

solid and in control. Much better an any Cessna I've been in in rough

air.  I don't have much experience in light planes and I was frankly

surprised.



------

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:57 pm Post subject: 601 and wing failiers

If you dont mind a 601  able only to cary one pasenger and 20 gallons of fuel.



--

Dave Nixon

Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 25

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:56 am Post subject: Re: 601 and wing failiers

Personally, I think all this talk about wing lockers causing or will cause a failure is a lot of garbage.  As stated previously, when the wing locker is cut in, it is truly beefed up with a very rigid rear locker panel (6-WLO-1(2). That coupled with good construction practices (which should be employed during the whole process) will insure that every reasonable doubt should be erased. 

I, also, would like to see some empirical data that shows that the wing locker has caused a structural failure.  From what I have been able to determine on the NTSB reports, other than Stupid Pilot Tricks, the CH601XL is very reliable aircraft.  Unfortunately Paralysis By Analysis is a trait that we all endure at one time or another. It is builder thing.  

But don't let your imaginations find things that aren't there. Should you be concerned? Absolutely! So overcome it with good construction practices and some good old Common Sense.  There is long way to go and many more decisions are going to be made before your beauty flies. And some of these seem pretty extreme at the time but for the life of me, without looking at my notes, I can't even remember them anymore. That's how insignificant they are now in the total build scheme of things.  

Let's enjoy the process and be safe out there.  Common Sense should prevail. 

Dave Nixon 

CH601XL Jabiru 3300 

93% Done 75% To Go

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum