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Single or Dual Controls?

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Rick Lewis

Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 122
Location: Kingston, Tn.

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:55 pm Post subject: Single or Dual Controls?

I am wondering if you guys can give me the pro's and con's on dual controls verses single.  As you know, the MKIII comes with the single stick which I think I would like to use as it seems that it would be easier to get into the plane. No stick in the way.  In looking at other MKIII's, though, I can see that the single stick in the center console takes up precious space. 



     Is the center stick comfortable to use or awkward?



                     Rick Lewis 

 (water cooled VW engine)

Last edited by Rick Lewis on Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:05 pm Post subject: Single or Dual Controls?

I like it, not at all awkward, and I like not having to get my leg over it.



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)



Rick Lewis wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I am wondering if you guys can give me the pro's and con's on dual controls verses single.  As you know, the MKIII comes with the single stick which I think I would like to use as it seems that it would be easier to get into the plane. No stick in the way.  In looking at other MKIII's, though, I can see that the single stick in the center console takes up precious space. 



      Is the center stick comfortable to use or awkward to use?



                      Rick Lewis 

  (water cooled VW engine)





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155065#155065

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:19 pm Post subject: Single or Dual Controls?

>     Is the center stick comfortable to use or awkward to use?

 	  Quote: 	
		  

                     Rick Lewis


	




Rick L:



Works great.  Is a lot less complicated than the dual sticks.



I think the biggest complaint was the throttle was also in the center on the 

old MKIII's.  I noticed it was on both sides when I was up at the Factory 

for the Homecoming.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

rowedenny(at)windstream.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:03 pm Post subject: Single or Dual Controls?

 	  Quote: 	
		   Rick L:



 Works great.  Is a lot less complicated than the dual sticks.



 I think the biggest complaint was the throttle was also in the center on 

 the old MKIII's.  I noticed it was on both sides when I was up at the 

 Factory for the Homecoming.



 john h

 mkIII



 Rick,

I have the old center stick and throttle set up in my Mk-3 and had no 
	


difficulty adjusting to it, looks kind of funny in pics, but is as simple as 

can be.



Denny Rowe, Mk-3

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:24 pm Post subject: Single or Dual Controls?

At 09:02 PM 12/30/2007, Denny Rowe wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I have the old center stick and throttle set up in my Mk-3 and had no 

difficulty adjusting to it, looks kind of funny in pics, but is as simple 

as can be.


	


The stick and throttle are _both_ in the center?  Which hand do you use on 

which?



-Dana



do not archive

--

  Sex in a Volkswagen = Farfergnookie.

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:35 pm Post subject: Single or Dual Controls?

> The stick and throttle are _both_ in the center?  Which hand do you use 

on

 	  Quote: 	
		   which?



 -Dana


	




Dana:



Flying from the left seat, right hand on the stick and left on the throttle.



Flying from the right seat, left hand on the stick and right hand on the 

throttle.



Seems awkward, but only takes a few minutes to get accustomed to flying that 

way.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:52 am Post subject: Single or Dual Controls?

For what it's worth, the dual sticks are not that hard to get around, even for an old fart like me. After the Challenger II, getting in and out of the Mk III is like falling into a recliner. I fly from the right seat and it's very comfy. 



Rick



On Dec 30, 2007 8:34 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>

 > The stick and throttle are _both_ in the center?  Which hand do you use 

on

 	  Quote: 	
		   which?



 -Dana


	


Dana:



Flying from the left seat, right hand on the stick and left on the throttle.



Flying from the right seat, left hand on the stick and right hand on the 



[b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:03 am Post subject: Single or Dual Controls?

Rick:

  

 Dual sticks can get pretty complicated for flying  passengers that are not familiar with entering and exiting the  mkIII.

  

 I removed the left stick for that purpose.   Another reason for removing the left stick is to allow larger passengers to  fly.  With two sticks, size of the thighs may restrict lateral stick  movement.

  

 john h

 mkIII

 [quote]    

   For what it's worth, the dual sticks are not that hard to get around,    even for an old fart like me.  

   

Rick

 

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

rowedenny(at)windstream.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:08 am Post subject: Single or Dual Controls?

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 The stick and throttle are _both_ in the center?  Which hand do you use on 

 which?



 -Dana



 do not archive


	




Pilot in left seat, right hand on stick, left hand across body for throttle, 

not as hardas it seems.



Denny

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:39 am Post subject: Re: Single or Dual Controls?

I have dual controls in my MK-III Xtra, and they are great.   I have flown a lot of people, different sizes, and getting in and out of the plane is not an issue.   If a person is not capable of lifting thier knee high enough to get over the stick, they probably would not be capable of getting into any plane except an airliner.  We to take passengers that have to be lifted into their seats in airliners, but thats where I draw the line in my Kolb.



For passengers, dual sticks are great.  Its rare that I get a passenger that does not want to fly the plane.  With dual sticks I can let them do a lot more, and have my hand on my stick ready to correct if needed.  I do let my wife and friends try takeoffs and landings, having two sticks makes it easy and much safer.   Overall, its makes for a much better experience for the passenger to have his own stick, and makes me feel good also.  So the issue of having to lift my knee 10 inches or so when getting in and out is really a non-issue, its well worth it many times over.



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:51 am Post subject: Single or Dual Controls?

> I have dual controls in my MK-III Xtra, and they are great.   I have 

flown a lot of people, different sizes, and getting in and out of the plane 

is not an issue.   If a person is not capable of lifting thier knee high 

enough to get over the stick, they probably would not be capable of getting 

into any plane except an airliner.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Mike


	




Mike:



I don't recall saying anything about the passenger being able to lift their 

leg to clear the stick.  Hell, I'm 68 and have a hard time bending my own 

knee and getting my leg over or around the stick.



Big problem with flying passengers is getting them and out of the aircraft 

without destroying it.  Wait until some club foot kicks the inside of the 

windshield, scratching it when they sling their size 14 over the stick, or 

kick the instrument panel.  Then again, there is the limit on just how large 

a passengers thighs can be, or their belly, before they interfere with stick 

throw and safe flight.



Glad yours works perfect with small, skinny passengers.



Old pilot that flew many passengers in Fat Albert for the Kolb Factory over 

the years,



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:23 am Post subject: Single or Dual Controls?

At 11:08 AM 12/31/2007, Denny Rowe wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Pilot in left seat, right hand on stick, left hand across body for 

throttle, not as hardas it seems.


	


It DOES sound awkward!



I can appreciate the complexity of dual sticks, but a center stick and dual 

outboard throttles (a torque tube under the seats like the 2-place 

Quicksilvers; very easy to implement) would seem to make more sense.



-Dana

--

  HAL 9000: Dave. Put down those Windows disks, Dave. DAVE!

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:43 am Post subject: Single or Dual Controls?

The last time I flew Fat Albert you could move the stick almost three inches 

in all directions without any control movement. I didn't notice the slop in 

flight but... That really turned me off on dual sticks. Are all dual stick 

Kolbs so sloppy?



The bigger concern is having a passenger grab the stick at the wrong time 

and mess up your day. With the single stick at least you would know what 

they are doing.



Do not archive



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW powered MKIIIC



---

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:26 pm Post subject: Single or Dual Controls?

That really turned me off on dual sticks. Are all dual stick

 	  Quote: 	
		   Kolbs so sloppy?

 >
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   Rick Neilsen


	




Rick:



Only the dual sticks old Kolb designed and sold.



Jim Hauck and Seth Mathews (RIP) designed my dual controls in 1991.  Old 

Kolb was not interested in them and designed their own.  I was lucky.  By 

the time they designed and installed dual controls in Fat Albert, Dan had 

taken over as the company MKIII pilot.  I made a couple flights with 

passengers in Fat Albert with the dual controls and was not comfortable.  In 

1998 or 99 TNK started producing dual controls like the ones in my mkIII. 

There is no slop in our dual controls.



john h

mkIII - Heading out the door to meet James Trip and do my last flight for 

2007.  Beautiful day at hauck's holler and Gantt International Airport.

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Possums

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:31 pm Post subject: Single or Dual Controls?

At 01:42 PM 12/31/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net>

The bigger concern is having a passenger grab the stick at the wrong 

time and mess up your day. With the single stick at least you would 

know what they are doing.



Do not archive



Rick Neilsen


	


Stuff like that has happened. For instance: engine out and passenger 

braces against the rudder pedals for

what he thinks is the impending crash - and creates one. Hate to have 

a passenger (all full of adrenaline)

grab the stick at the wrong time. You would have to break his arm to 

get him to let go.

_________________
Possum

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject: Single or Dual Controls?

> Stuff like that has happened. For instance: engine out and passenger

 	  Quote: 	
		   braces against the rudder pedals for

 what he thinks is the impending crash - and creates one. Hate to have a 

 passenger (all full of adrenaline)

 grab the stick at the wrong time. You would have to break his arm to get 

 him to let go.


	


Hey Possum:



Happy New Year!



That is why I prefer to fly solo.  Always have.  Don't have to worry about a 

passenger pulling a more stupid stunt than me.  Airplane flies a lot better 

too.



You don't have to worry about it in the Possum Special.  It's single place.



Take care,



john h

mkIII

912ULS - 160.5 hours

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Rick Lewis

Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 122
Location: Kingston, Tn.

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:34 am Post subject: Re: Single or Dual Controls?

Thanks to everyone for the information.  I think I will go ahead and try the single stick as my thoughts on the matter were mostly confirmed.  I remember many years ago flying a cub and having my passenger try to reposition himself in the seat.  Doing so he pulled on the stick and before things were under control we had completed a barrel roll.  I think both of us messed in our pants, at least I know one of us did.     



                                          Rick

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