Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - This feud isn't pretty!

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

This feud isn't pretty!

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

jcrowder(at)lpbroadband.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:43 pm Post subject: This feud isn't pretty!

What is it about email lists and the "road rage" that sometimes develops.

Mean and cruel things are said by people who face to face are very likely

decent people.  Like "rolled up in a ball."  Why not just let the issue drop

and do your own things. Don't keep arguing an issue that we as a list will

never seem to agree on--Steve.



On the other side having two nearly identical, or identical airplanes and

saying one can, and one cannot, be flown as LSA compliant is stupid, unfair,

and if one had enough money to fight, probably not enforceable.  I also

suspect that if the paperwork in the plane, (and only the weight and balance

papers show it), show the 1320 lbs., and the plane is otherwise compliant,

it will never be questioned.



While it is big to some in our group, it's not a big issue in the general

flying community and probably not with the FAA--unless we push their nose

into it.  But here is the point, why are some so uptight about Steve and

those who choose to see it differently, or as a grey area.  Are we afraid

someone else is going to have some fun flying?  Do we think it is somehow

immoral and that they are doing something that endangers the public?

Baloney.  I know a lot of people who fly without insurance and not all of

them are flying experimental.  Most states don't require insurance and

aircraft insurance companies write a lot of pretty meager overages and are

very apt to find something to deny coverage over anyway.  If we think they

are taking a risk on there selves with the FAA, what is the concern to us?

As pilots we should be on their side, not defending a silly unfair rule.



It's a new year and lets look at what we agree on.  I for one hate the hard

edge and meanness I read in some of our emails. Like I said in the subject

line I changed--This feud isn't pretty!  I like all of you and hope I

haven't made enemies here.  It is not my intent.



Jim Crowder



[quote] --

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: This feud isn't pretty!

Thank you Jim, 

I agree whole heartedly.  But don't put that to just email.  I find that pilots sit on the ground and WATCH for people to break a rule just to turn them into the FAA.  WHat a crock.  I think we need to adopt a rule here.  NO MORE NARCING.  Come on.  Put the FAA in their place, leave them alone.  The only people that are going to give the FAA strength are those running to them all the time, turning in other pilots.  We should be saying, we are not going to the FAA for anything period, for any reason.  Let them find out about pilots on THEIR OWN.

josandt(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: This feud isn't pretty!

Thanks Mike. You hit it right on the head. It's no surprise that pilots are the most anal retentive people on the face of the planet. That's why they make good pilots - they obsess with everything all the time. On the positive side, it helps keep them safe and improves commercial aviation. On the negative side, they pull their hair out when they imagine anyone not following ALL OF THE RULES (and they tattle)!!!! The FAA (authority)is GOD. As children, they tattled on each other to their teachers. People don't change much, do they? They just get older. But look at our culture! Endless, mindless PC sheep who can't think for themselves! Independent thought is becoming a very rare commodity!!  Break out the Charmin! Kitfox Flyers ought to be a better breed. KICK ME NOW.

John Sandt, Ridgecrest     Kitfox 7 constructor/independent thinker



<<<<<<<<Thank you Jim,  I agree whole heartedly.  But don't put that to just email.  I find that pilots sit on the ground and WATCH for people to break a rule just to turn them into the FAA.  Kitfoxmike>>>>>

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:01 pm Post subject: This feud isn't pretty!

At 03:42 PM 1/4/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  But here is the point, why are some so uptight about Steve and

those who choose to see it differently, or as a grey area.  Are we afraid

someone else is going to have some fun flying?


	


Jim,

         This thread has been repeatedly killed, not because it lacks 

merit but because each time, (after the first,) no additional 

information came to the fore and no volunteers came forward to test 

Steve's theory either way. Michael and I kill any thread that ceases 

to "add value" to the discussion in particular and to the list in 

general. This time Steve has added that he is putting his money 

(license?) where his mouth is and is flying his formerly 1550# gross 

5 with a sport pilot license. That's good additional information, 

however it doesn't open the thread to another destructive opinion 

debate. If and when anybody gets some kind of "hard" confirmation 

from the FAA either way I hope they'll share it with us, until then 

this thread is still officially dead.

Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

m4785(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:39 am Post subject: This feud isn't pretty!

Hi all,I have been off the list for a while due to my forced landing in my Kitfox4,but have tried to keep up with some of the emails.I agrre with Jim on this subject,since I have just been through a FAA and NTSB investigation concerninig my crash.I answered all direct questions and facts from the FAA and did not offer any personal opinions,I made sure my log books and paperwork was in order when they asked for these items and I seemed to fair well through the investigation,even though I was a little nervous The Faa was patient with me and extended me kindness,also helped me get through the tech stuff in the investigation.So with that said I dont feel that The Faa is out delibertly to get us,I think they are a governing agency that covers all concerns of the general public and us Pilots as a whole.I have been a long time member of the EAA and if needed I would have sought out there help in my matters with the Faa as they are like us,the small guy flying who needs a bigger v  oice.. .Anyways all is well now and I have returned to flying my Aventura single place sea plane,However I sure do miss my Kitfox. 

 I only had 2 injuries...my pride and my pocket book.......lol 

  God Bless and happy landings to all.........Mark N61AC

 [quote]-------------- Original message from "Jim Crowder" <jcrowder(at)lpbroadband.net>: -------------- 

[quote] --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jim Crowder" 

 

 What is it about email lists and the "road rage" that sometimes develops. 

 Mean and cruel things are said by people who face to face are very likely 

 decent people. Like "rolled up in a ball." Why not just let the issue drop 

 and do your own things. Don't keep arguing an issue that we as a list will 

 never seem to agree on--Steve. 

 

 On the other side having two nearly identical, or identical airplanes and 

 saying one can, and one cannot, be flown as LSA compliant is stupid, unfair, 

 and if one had enough money to fight, probably not enforceable. I also 

 suspect that if the paperwork in the plane, (and only the   weigh t and balance 

 papers show it), show the 1320 lbs., and the plane is otherwise compliant, 

 it will never be questioned. 

 

 While it is big to some in our group, it's not a big issue in the general 

 flying community and probably not with the FAA--unless we push their nose 

 into it. But here is the point, why are some so uptight about Steve and 

 those who choose to see it differently, or as a grey area. Are we afraid 

 someone else is going to have some fun flying? Do we think it is somehow 

 immoral and that they are doing something that endangers the public? 

 Baloney. I know a lot of people who fly without insurance and not all of 

 them are flying experimental. Most states don't require insurance and 

 aircraft insurance companies write a lot of pretty meager overages and are 

 very apt to find something to deny coverage over anyway. If we think they 

 are taking a risk o  n ther e selves with the FAA, what is the concern to us? 

 As pilots we should be on their side, not defending a silly unfair rule. 

 

 It's a new year and lets look at what we agree on. I for one hate the hard 

 edge and meanness I read in some of our emails. Like I said in the subject 

 line I changed--This feud isn't pretty! I like all of you and hope I 

 haven't made enemies here. It is not my intent. 

 

 Jim Crowder 

 

 > --

Mdkitfox(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:08 pm Post subject: This feud isn't pretty!

Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. 

  [quote][b]

Mdkitfox(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:06 pm Post subject: This feud isn't pretty!

Guys/Gals,

  

 Excuse the previous blank email, somehow my computer decided it was time to  send it out.  I'm innocent.  I didn't even touch a key, go  figure.

  

 I did want to mention something that might be helpful to all of us.  I  retired from the FAA in 1997 and I held a number of relatively high positions on  the engineering side of the Agency.  I did work a lot with flight standards  folks, the regulators of aviation.  I can say this about them, they all  (with very few exceptions) got into the FAA because they loved aviation.   Some were always GA and some a combination of military and GA, but all like  their jobs, be they pilots or mechanics.

  

 The inspectors get very regimented training on the rules before they  interface with the public.  They all are serious about safety and their  main mission is to protect the ' innocent public' and then the  aviators.  Many of them would do anything to avoid citing a pilot or a  technicality because it means a lot of paperwork.  Yes, there are some that  look forward to the opportunity to 'get someone', but the management in HQ tries  to not let that happen.  For instance, at AirVenture there can be 20 or 30  inspectors walking around and they are trained to not hassle the pilots,  but to work with the person if they see a problem.  You probably have never  even noticed many of them when they are working on the ramp, unless they're  wearing an FAA name tag or shirt.

  

 Given all this, when someone brings a problem to their attention, they  cannot ignore it.  They are obligated to follow through and research the  complaint.  Actually, that's what we, as taxpayers, expect from our  government employees.  That being said, when we want something from the FAA  don't we expect them to work hard and get an answer in a reasonable  time?

  

 The real problem we face is how to interact with the inspector.  If we  show a compliant attitude (do not read this as confessing to breaking a rule -  get an attorney before you even consider doing that) and strive for a safety  related outcome, it is possible to get off with just a warning, either  verbally or written.  Once you do something that causes the inspector to be  concerned and he forwards his findings to the attorneys at FAA, all bets are  off.  Attorneys work in a world of rules and sanctions.  Once they get  the case they will do their attorney thing.  It then becomes difficult to  get a compromise without professional (your attorney) help.

  

 If you have a problem with a fellow aviator, confront him or her directly  and try to work it out.  If you are doing something 'unexpected' or just  plain wrong and someone confronts you, explain it, accept the responsibility, or  if you choose to deny it, or do whatever you think is appropriate, expect the  FAA to come ask when the person you blew off decides to call the feds. When  you do that, at least you now know the process you are about to  enter.  Remember, the rules will be enforced, right or wrong (I  mean whether the rule is right or wrong).  if you don't like the  rules, petition the Agency to change it.  The FAA is obligated to  address that request to.  However,as we always say, the rules have  been written, for the most part, in the blood of the aviators who have gone west  before us.  They aren't that onerous, they are our government's best  attempt to draw the limits on what is safe.  Just don't place yourself  in a position that will allow the FAA inspector to interpret the rules.   English is a tough language and different words can be interpreted in  different ways.  Enter the lawyers.  This is where they make their  careers.  Don't give these folks the opportunity to get awards, for getting  you.   

  

 I apologize for going on, but as a fellow aviator, I don't want to see  our privileges (not rights) jeopardized by some of us operating as 'cowboys' and  stirring up the public (or other aviators) who then think they have to save  the world and go to the FAA. 

  

 Fly safe!

  

 Rick Weiss

 Kitfox Series V Speedster (soon to fly - I hope)

 Daytona Beach



Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. 

  [quote][b]

MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:05 am Post subject: This feud isn't pretty!

Rick sez:



 	  Quote: 	
		  ...as a fellow aviator, I don't want to see our privileges (not 

rights) jeopardized...


	


Only government bureaucrats (and former bureaucrats) think they are 

empowered to issue "privileges".  



Minor quibbles aside, there's a lot of wisdom in your post, Rick, 

particularly with respect to the attitude an aviator should maintain 

while interacting with FAA officials.  I am continually amazed at the 

number of pilots that are happy to participate in arguments with 

controllers on the radio.  The best that could possibly be achieved 

is a stalemate and the worst would be some type of enforcement 

action.  Swallowing your pride might be all it takes to put an end to 

the problem and yet many just can't seem to do it.



Maybe pilot training should include a short session on diplomacy.  



Mike G.

N728KF

Phoenix, AZ

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:57 am Post subject: This feud isn't pretty!

Excellent post Rick.  It's good to hear from someone who speaks with  experience from being close to the action.  

 My purpose in writing this is to give a short blurb on my own thoughts and  experiences regarding the FAA, mostly from the air traffic control side.   

 I first earned my private license in early 1970, then commercial  sometime in 1971, while holding down an air traffic control (ATC) job that  I retired from in 1988.  I had plenty of interaction with FAA in  various assignments, including Seattle ARTCC.  As a pilot or ATC at no time  was I ever unnecessarily hassled about anything.  Every fed that I came  into contact with was courteous, knowledgeable, and helpful.  I, like a lot  of others on this list, have spent my fair share of time hanging around  airports, whether it was flying,  working on my airplane, attending  get-togethers, or just sitting around in the terminal having coffee  listening to and participating in the conversations.  Lots of  camaraderie.  However, one thing that always bothered me was the occasional  person who would take every opportunity to hammer the FAA about something.   Usually it was things like "I never talk to air traffic control", then go on  about some anecdotal story picked up about somebody being vectored out of their  way near a busy airport, or something along that level.  There are also  those who vehemently make it known how they refuse to use their radios or  transponders around congested areas, preferring to fly right through without  talking to ATC.  Their reasons are usually something like "I don't need the  hassle of the feds", or something along that line.  This always makes me  cringe.  I could post a lot of the usual stories, but they never seem to  change much, and always come from the same types of people.  It was  difficult for me to keep quiet while hearing this sort of talk (still is)  because I knew most of it was embellished BS (hangar talk).    Unfortunately, there are often very naive and inexperienced pilots  around who are listening and, like sponges, they soak it right up and it later  becomes very difficult to change their minds about it.  "First learned is  best learned".   Sure, like anything else, the FAA is not  perfect.  Unfortunately, there are the occasional problems within the FAA  like the Bob Hoover debacle, but they are rare.   

 Everyone of us pays the taxes that puts ATC in place and pays the wages of  those guys and gals who are trying to do their job which is providing a safe and  orderly flow of traffic.  They are highly trained and with few exceptions,  are very capable and willing to help.  Personally, I use ATC at every  opportunity for flight following.  I don't fly IMC and I don't file IFR,  but I definitely like to know that I am being seen on radar by someone who has  the ability to keep me safe from other pilots out there who may not be able to  see me.  One big plus for flight following that is very important to me is  that if I have a problem that may threaten continued flight, I already  have instant contact with ATC who knows exactly where I am and should I have to  make an emergency landing, rescue would be quick.

 I'm sure there will be some "yeah, but..." replies and that is OK, but if  this helps to change the mindset of at least one person, I'm satisfied.

 Now, on a Kitfox note, I'll be bringing my airplane down to the shop today  to start the annual.

 Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 355+ TT

"Nothing will  ever be attempted, if all possible objections must first be overcome".- Samuel  Johnson

  

 [quote]   Guys/Gals,

    

   Excuse the previous blank email, somehow my computer decided it was time    to send it out.  I'm innocent.  I didn't even touch a key, go    figure.

    

   I did want to mention something that might be helpful to all of us.     I retired from the FAA in 1997 and I held a number of relatively high    positions on the engineering side of the Agency.  I did work a lot with    flight standards folks, the regulators of aviation.  I can say this about    them, they all (with very few exceptions) got into the FAA because they loved    aviation.  Some were always GA and some a combination of military and GA,    but all like their jobs, be they pilots or mechanics.

    

   The inspectors get very regimented training on the rules before they    interface with the public.  They all are serious about safety and their    main mission is to protect the ' innocent public' and then the    aviators.  Many of them would do anything to avoid citing a pilot or a    technicality because it means a lot of paperwork.  Yes, there are some    that look forward to the opportunity to 'get someone', but the management in    HQ tries to not let that happen.  For instance, at AirVenture there can    be 20 or 30 inspectors walking around and they are trained to not hassle    the pilots, but to work with the person if they see a problem.  You    probably have never even noticed many of them when they are working on the    ramp, unless they're wearing an FAA name tag or shirt.

    

   Given all this, when someone brings a problem to their attention, they    cannot ignore it.  They are obligated to follow through and research the    complaint.  Actually, that's what we, as taxpayers, expect from our    government employees.  That being said, when we want something from the    FAA don't we expect them to work hard and get an answer in a reasonable    time?

    

   The real problem we face is how to interact with the inspector.  If    we show a compliant attitude (do not read this as confessing to breaking a    rule - get an attorney before you even consider doing that) and strive for a    safety related outcome, it is possible to get off with just a warning,    either verbally or written.  Once you do something that causes the    inspector to be concerned and he forwards his findings to the attorneys at    FAA, all bets are off.  Attorneys work in a world of rules and    sanctions.  Once they get the case they will do their attorney    thing.  It then becomes difficult to get a compromise without    professional (your attorney) help.

    

   If you have a problem with a fellow aviator, confront him or her directly    and try to work it out.  If you are doing something 'unexpected' or just    plain wrong and someone confronts you, explain it, accept the responsibility,    or if you choose to deny it, or do whatever you think is appropriate, expect    the FAA to come ask when the person you blew off decides to call the    feds. When you do that, at least you now know the process you are    about to enter.  Remember, the rules will be enforced, right or wrong (I    mean whether the rule is right or wrong).  if you don't like    the rules, petition the Agency to change it.  The FAA is obligated    to address that request to.  However,as we always say, the rules    have been written, for the most part, in the blood of the aviators who have    gone west before us.  They aren't that onerous, they are our government's    best attempt to draw the limits on what is safe.  Just don't place    yourself in a position that will allow the FAA inspector to interpret the    rules.  English is a tough language and different words can be    interpreted in different ways.  Enter the lawyers.  This is where    they make their careers.  Don't give these folks the opportunity to get    awards, for getting you.   

    

   I apologize for going on, but as a fellow aviator, I don't want to    see our privileges (not rights) jeopardized by some of us operating as    'cowboys' and stirring up the public (or other aviators) who then think    they have to save the world and go to the FAA. 

    

   Fly safe!

    

   Rick Weiss

   Kitfox Series V Speedster (soon to fly - I hope)

   Daytona Beach



         Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. 

 	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

	
[b]

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: This feud isn't pretty!

It’s a dirty job (sometimes) but one that has to be done.  Thank God or to whom it may concern there are people there to do it!  

   

My 2 cents CDN (at close to parity)  

   

Noel Loveys   

Mod III-A getting a 912  

       

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of fox5flyer

 Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 10:22 AM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: This feud isn't pretty!  

  

  

     

Excellent post Rick.  It's good to hear from someone who speaks with experience from being close to the action.    

    

My purpose in writing this is to give a short blurb on my own thoughts and experiences regarding the FAA, mostly from the air traffic control side.    

    

I first earned my private license in early 1970, then commercial sometime in 1971, while holding down an air traffic control (ATC) job that I retired from in 1988.  I had plenty of interaction with FAA in various assignments, including Seattle ARTCC.  As a pilot or ATC at no time was I ever unnecessarily hassled about anything.  Every fed that I came into contact with was courteous, knowledgeable, and helpful.  I, like a lot of others on this list, have spent my fair share of time hanging around airports, whether it was flying,  working on my airplane, attending get-togethers, or just sitting around in the terminal having coffee listening to and participating in the conversations.  Lots of camaraderie.  However, one thing that always bothered me was the occasional person who would take every opportunity to hammer the FAA about something.  Usually it was things like "I never talk to air traffic control", then go on about some anecdotal story picked up about somebody being vectored out of their way near a busy airport, or something along that level.  There are also those who vehemently make it known how they refuse to use their radios or transponders around congested areas, preferring to fly right through without talking to ATC.  Their reasons are usually something like "I don't need the hassle of the feds", or something along that line.  This always makes me cringe.  I could post a lot of the usual stories, but they never seem to change much, and always come from the same types of people.  It was difficult for me to keep quiet while hearing this sort of talk (still is) because I knew most of it was embellished BS (hangar talk).   Unfortunately, there are often very naive and inexperienced pilots around who are listening and, like sponges, they soak it right up and it later becomes very difficult to change their minds about it.  "First learned is best learned".   Sure, like anything else, the FAA is not perfect.  Unfortunately, there are the occasional problems within the FAA like the Bob Hoover debacle, but they are rare.     

    

Everyone of us pays the taxes that puts ATC in place and pays the wages of those guys and gals who are trying to do their job which is providing a safe and orderly flow of traffic.  They are highly trained and with few exceptions, are very capable and willing to help.  Personally, I use ATC at every opportunity for flight following.  I don't fly IMC and I don't file IFR, but I definitely like to know that I am being seen on radar by someone who has the ability to keep me safe from other pilots out there who may not be able to see me.  One big plus for flight following that is very important to me is that if I have a problem that may threaten continued flight, I already have instant contact with ATC who knows exactly where I am and should I have to make an emergency landing, rescue would be quick.  

    

I'm sure there will be some "yeah, but..." replies and that is OK, but if this helps to change the mindset of at least one person, I'm satisfied.  

    

Now, on a Kitfox note, I'll be bringing my airplane down to the shop today to start the annual.  

    

Deke Morisse

 Mikado Michigan

 S5/Subaru/CAP 355+ TT

 "Nothing will ever be attempted, if all possible objections must first be overcome".- Samuel Johnson  

    

   

   	  Quote: 	
		      

Guys/Gals,  

    

   

    

Excuse the previous blank email, somehow my computer decided it was time to send it out.  I'm innocent.  I didn't even touch a key, go figure.  

    

   

    

I did want to mention something that might be helpful to all of us.  I retired from the FAA in 1997 and I held a number of relatively high positions on the engineering side of the Agency.  I did work a lot with flight standards folks, the regulators of aviation.  I can say this about them, they all (with very few exceptions) got into the FAA because they loved aviation.  Some were always GA and some a combination of military and GA, but all like their jobs, be they pilots or mechanics.  

    

   

    

The inspectors get very regimented training on the rules before they interface with the public.  They all are serious about safety and their main mission is to protect the ' innocent public' and then the aviators.  Many of them would do anything to avoid citing a pilot or a technicality because it means a lot of paperwork.  Yes, there are some that look forward to the opportunity to 'get someone', but the management in HQ tries to not let that happen.  For instance, at AirVenture there can be 20 or 30 inspectors walking around and they are trained to not hassle the pilots, but to work with the person if they see a problem.  You probably have never even noticed many of them when they are working on the ramp, unless they're wearing an FAA name tag or shirt.  

    

   

    

Given all this, when someone brings a problem to their attention, they cannot ignore it.  They are obligated to follow through and research the complaint.  Actually, that's what we, as taxpayers, expect from our government employees.  That being said, when we want something from the FAA don't we expect them to work hard and get an answer in a reasonable time?  

    

   

    

The real problem we face is how to interact with the inspector.  If we show a compliant attitude (do not read this as confessing to breaking a rule - get an attorney before you even consider doing that) and strive for a safety related outcome, it is possible to get off with just a warning, either verbally or written.  Once you do something that causes the inspector to be concerned and he forwards his findings to the attorneys at FAA, all bets are off.  Attorneys work in a world of rules and sanctions.  Once they get the case they will do their attorney thing.  It then becomes difficult to get a compromise without professional (your attorney) help.  

    

   

    

If you have a problem with a fellow aviator, confront him or her directly and try to work it out.  If you are doing something 'unexpected' or just plain wrong and someone confronts you, explain it, accept the responsibility, or if you choose to deny it, or do whatever you think is appropriate, expect the FAA to come ask when the person you blew off decides to call the feds. When you do that, at least you now know the process you are about to enter.  Remember, the rules will be enforced, right or wrong (I mean whether the rule is right or wrong).  if you don't like the rules, petition the Agency to change it.  The FAA is obligated to address that request to.  However,as we always say, the rules have been written, for the most part, in the blood of the aviators who have gone west before us.  They aren't that onerous, they are our government's best attempt to draw the limits on what is safe.  Just don't place yourself in a position that will allow the FAA inspector to interpret the rules.  English is a tough language and different words can be interpreted in different ways.  Enter the lawyers.  This is where they make their careers.  Don't give these folks the opportunity to get awards, for getting you.     

    

   

    

I apologize for going on, but as a fellow aviator, I don't want to see our privileges (not rights) jeopardized by some of us operating as 'cowboys' and stirring up the public (or other aviators) who then think they have to save the world and go to the FAA.   

    

   

    

Fly safe!  

    

   

    

Rick Weiss  

    

Kitfox Series V Speedster (soon to fly - I hope)  

    

Daytona Beach  

  



 

         

  

Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.   

   	  Quote: 	
		    href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c 	
   	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4 	  Quote: 	
		   	
5 	  Quote: 	
		   	
6 	  Quote: 	
		   	
7 	  Quote: 	
		   	
8 	  Quote: 	
		   	
9 	  Quote: 	
		  href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		  href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com 	
1 	  Quote: 	
		  href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com 	
2 	  Quote: 	
		  href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com 	
3

       [quote][b]

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum