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cookwithgas

Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 159

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:49 am Post subject: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight!

Hi guys:



As promised, click the link below to view a video from the 601XL Rudder Cam of N5SL filmed Sunday, January 13th.  



http://www.cooknwithgas.com/Videos/Second_Flight_Jan_13_2008.mpg



Scott Laughlin

601XL / Corvair #17

Omaha, Nebraska

www.cooknwithgas.com



Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. Get it now!  [quote][b]

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:37 am Post subject: Re: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight!

Scott,



When are you going to fly?

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

cookwithgas

Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 159

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:21 am Post subject: Re: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight!

 	  Gig Giacona wrote: 	
		  Scott,



When are you going to fly? 	




Patience Young Grasshopper.   Soon.

Terry Phillips

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:24 am Post subject: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight!

Scott



 Nice photos--you've got a pretty stable platform up there. What sort of setup do you have to record your video signals? 



 My flight instructor, Mark, has been using a 12 VDC VCR to record flights for his students, but his recorder has died. He would be interested in upgrading to some sort of PC based system. I have a USB video adapter that can take coax or S-video input and convert that to a MPG-? signal that can be played on a PC. Mark would like something that could be recorded to a flash drive and then could be burned to a dvd by his students after the lesson. I guess a 12 V DVD-R would also work, but that doesn't sound very rrobust.



 I'm wondering what's available out there now? Thanks for any insight you can give me.



 Terry



 

 At 07:45 AM 1/15/2008 -0600, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Hi guys:



 As promised, click the link below to view a video from the 601XL Rudder Cam of N5SL filmed Sunday, January 13th.  



 http://www.cooknwithgas.com/Videos/Second_Flight_Jan_13_2008.mpg



 Scott Laughlin

 601XL / Corvair #17

 Omaha, Nebraska

 www.cooknwithgas.com



  Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. [url=\'http://www.windowslive.com?ocid]Get it now![/url]  	
 

 

 Terry Phillips

 ttp44~at~rkymtn.net

 Corvallis MT

 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail is finished; working on the wings

 http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/    [quote][b]

_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings.

BobTezyk

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 38
Location: Midlothian, TX

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:36 am Post subject: Re: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight!

Good job Scott. The rudder-cam is a great addition.

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:49 am Post subject: Re: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight!

Not all video is created equal.  Generally digital will be higher quality than analog and less susceptible to interference. High quality requires a lot of memory and the ability to transfer and store a lot of data quickly.  I suspect that the quality and quantity of video that could be downloaded to a flash drive would be unsatisfactory for most purposes.  There are some cameras out their that burn directly to a mini-DVD or hard drive that might work in this situation.



I shoot and edit video professionally (documentary films.)  Everything I do is in high def, recorded to tape and then downloaded to a computer for editing.  One thing you learn very quickly is that you'll never have higher quality than the original source so you need to determine just what that quality needs to be.



Tim

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:51 am Post subject: Re: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight!

Whoops!  My comments were directed to Terry.  Enjoyed the rudder cam video scott.  How about a pix of the installation?



Tim

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:13 am Post subject: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight!

 	  Quote: 	
		   How about a pix of the installation?


	


Look at the top of the page here:



http://www.cooknwithgas.com/Tail.html



-- Craig

Terry Phillips

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:18 am Post subject: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight!

Thanks for the thoughts, Tim.



Probably anything Mark does will be better than what he has been doing. I'm 

attaching a screen image from playing a digitized lesson segment with 

Windows Media Player on my PC. The video file was made by sending the image 

from a VHS tape to my Win TV box, and saving the digitized file on my PC. 

As you can see, it's none too sharp. None-the-less, I can see out the 

windscreen well enough to know where I am. And, since I know the panel very 

well, and, since I can see the indicators on the altimeter, ASI, and tach, 

I know what those readings are, even though I cannot read the numbers. I 

can also interpret the AI images. The interesting thing is that Mark told 

me that the images on my PC were the best he had seen from his setup.



Can he do better? Ya, lots. But he is not likely to pay much, so even this 

quality, in a completely digital setup, would probably make him happy. And, 

since he only charges $50/hr wet for his 150 and $30/hr for lessons, I 

won't complain.



I would add that the videos were very valuable to me. More than once, I saw 

my hands move the yoke on the video in ways that I would have sworn did not 

happen. But, it's hard to deny the video evidence. And, on my 

fly-monthly-to-keep-up-the-skills-while-building program, I always review 

my "How to land this airplane" video before I go. Plus, I'm planning to 

implement something similar when I get to my Phase I testing. I think that 

the automatic recording of the panel and the audio will prove to be a 

valuable, low effort, record keeping technique while testing.



So, the question is, what is a cost effective way to save low-to-medium 

quality video for student's use?



Terry

At 09:49 AM 1/15/2008 -0800, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Not all video is created equal.  Generally digital will be higher quality 

than analog and less susceptible to interference. High quality requires a 

lot of memory and the ability to transfer and store a lot of data 

quickly.  I suspect that the quality and quantity of video that could be 

downloaded to a flash drive would be unsatisfactory for most 

purposes.  There are some cameras out their that burn directly to a 

mini-DVD or hard drive that might work in this situation.



I shoot and edit video professionally (documentary films.)  Everything I 

do is in high def, recorded to tape and then downloaded to a computer for 

editing.  One thing you learn very quickly is that you'll never have 

higher quality than the original source so you need to determine just what 

that quality needs to be.



Tim


	




Terry Phillips

ttp44~at~rkymtn.net

Corvallis MT

601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail is finished; working on the wings

http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/

Flght_Video_Scrn_shot.png

Description:

Filesize:

555 Bytes

Viewed:

16645 Time(s)

_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings.

cookwithgas

Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 159

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight!

Terry:



Craig had the pictures right.  I just mounted a cheep "bullet" camera on the rudder ($79 from Ebay).  It has sound but I didn't run a line for sound!  



Recording was more of a challenge and what I ended up with is a cheap DVD recorder (under $50) from Wal-Mart and a small inverter that I plug into the power adapter I installed on  my panel.  The last thing I need is some sort of small TV so I can see what is recording from the cockpit.  Right now I have to set everything up with a large TV in the hangar and start recording and leave the power on or I'll lose the setup.  



The next challenge is getting the video from DVD to MPG or AVI.  I'm using a Demo version of NERO right now to see if I like it.  I hope to have lots more videos to post as flying continues.  



I hope you are enjoying the videos and keep building - it's a great feeling to see it fly.  



Scott Laughlin

Omaha, Nebraska

www.cooknwithgas.com

601XL/Corvair #17

vgstol(at)bigpond.net.au
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight!

I've been using a bullet cam on the rudder  to record tuft testing, so similar needs to Scott's.

  

 I've been using a video camera with aux  input, and the results are good.  The results load into the computer, and  'Movie Maker' (part of XP) is easy for editing and uploading to YouTube.   The procedure for starting the camera to record from aux  input requires several steps of manipulating little buttons and following  propts on the little screen - not easy while flying.....  And the little  screen is too small for good live viewing in the cockpit.   

  

 I considered trying to multiple to one  of those screens used for viewing in-car DVDs, and maybe record onto a DVD-R as  Scott has done.  But is there a better way, to record directly  onto a lap top??  Don't need broadcast TV quality, just  reasonable....

  

 Anyone out there know how to  best do this??

  

 JG

 [quote]   ---

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:47 pm Post subject: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight!

If you buy a “webcam” it will have a USB interface instead of “composite video” (an RCA connector). Then you can connect the camera directly to a laptop and capture with software either bundled with the camera of provided with your computer. Windows XP includes a program called “Windows Movie Maker”. Resolution will be as good or better than a conventional TV.  

   

But the laptop may produce interference on your radio.  

   

-- Craig  

       

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JG

 Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:43 PM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight!  

  

  

     

I've been using a bullet cam on the rudder to record tuft testing, so similar needs to Scott's.  

    

   

    

I've been using a video camera with aux input, and the results are good.  The results load into the computer, and 'Movie Maker' (part of XP) is easy for editing and uploading to YouTube.  The procedure for starting the camera to record from aux input requires several steps of manipulating little buttons and following propts on the little screen - not easy while flying.....  And the little screen is too small for good live viewing in the cockpit.    

    

   

    

I considered trying to multiple to one of those screens used for viewing in-car DVDs, and maybe record onto a DVD-R as Scott has done.  But is there a better way, to record directly onto a lap top??  Don't need broadcast TV quality, just reasonable....  

    

   

    

Anyone out there know how to best do this??  

    

   

    

JG  

   	  Quote: 	
		      

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: cookwithgas (cookwithgas(at)HOTMAIL.COM)   

    

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 7:01 AM  

    

Subject: Re: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight!  

    

   

  

--> Zenith-List message posted by: "cookwithgas" <cookwithgas(at)hotmail.com (cookwithgas(at)hotmail.com)>

 

 Terry:

 

 Craig had the pictures right.  I just mounted a cheep "bullet" camera on the rudder ($79 from Ebay).  It has sound but I didn't run a line for sound!  

 

 Recording was more of a challenge and what I ended up with is a cheap DVD recorder (under $50) from Wal-Mart and a small inverter that I plug into the power adapter I installed on  my panel.  The last thing I need is some sort of small TV so I can see what is recording from the cockpit.  Right now I have to set everything up with a large TV in the hangar and start recording and leave the power on or I'll lose the setup.  

 

 The next challenge is getting the video from DVD to MPG or AVI.  I'm using a Demo version of NERO right now to see if I like it.  I hope to have lots more videos to post as flying continues.  

 

 I hope you are enjoying the videos and keep building - it's a great feeling to see it fly.  

 

 Scott Laughlin

 Omaha, Nebraska

 www.cooknwithgas.com

 601XL/Corvair #17

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158360#158360

 

 

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vgstol(at)bigpond.net.au
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight!

Thank you for that  Craig.  That sounds like a really easy way to go, I'll try it.   

 Yes, Windows Movie Maker is  really good, with excellent support on outside forums, and exactly the right  price...

  

 Do not  archive

  

 JG

 [quote]   ---

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight!

Scott,

Viewing your video from the rudder cam I've noticed some interference.  Some looks like a poor cable connection while some appears to come from another source.  I wonder if radio transmissions from the plane are somehow interfering with the video signal.



Regarding a webcam - with a long enough cable you could connect directly to a laptop, however - a full resolution video signal burns up about a gig of video every 5 minutes so you'd need to make sure you had the hard drive space.



Tim

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

cookwithgas

Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 159

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight!

Tim:



The interference was the radio. Next time we are going to talk less.  The good news is that my radio is working perfectly picking up transmissions from  miles away.  One less thing to worry about.  



More to come,



Scott Laughlin

john.marzulli(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight!

I saw in another post you mentioned that you do professional videography...



Recently I bought a Canon HV20 and Final Cut Express. So far the results are very good, but stabilizing the image, especially if I'm flying is a problem. 



Do you have any advice ( besides trying not to shoot through the window )?



Thanks,

-John



On Jan 15, 2008 5:06 PM, Tim Juhl <juhl(at)avci.net  (juhl(at)avci.net)> wrote:

[quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" < juhl(at)avci.net (juhl(at)avci.net)>



Scott,

Viewing your video from the rudder cam I've noticed some interference.  Some looks like a poor cable connection while some appears to come from another source.  I wonder if radio transmissions from the plane are somehow interfering with the video signal. 



Regarding a webcam - with a long enough cable you could connect directly to a laptop, however - a full resolution video signal burns up about a gig of video every 5 minutes so you'd need to make sure you had the hard drive space. 



Tim



--------

______________

CFII

Champ L16A flying

Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A

Working on fuselage





Read this topic online here:



 



"Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.

-Airplane The Movie  [quote][b]

Terry Phillips

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight!

Tim



1-sided DVD's have about 4.3 gig of storage, IIRC, and will record ~2 hrs 

of video at pretty good quality, which is about 28-minutes/gig. Is there 

some way to convert the "full resolution video" to DVD quality w/o too much 

hassle? If so, that would be more than adequate for my flight instructor's 

needs.



As far as flying with a laptop, I definitely plan to use a laptop with 

Waiters data acquisition program, (see)



http://www.iflyez.com/EFISRecorder.shtml



to record the EFIS, EIS, and GPS data while in flight testing, so adding 

the webcam to the mix would not be much additional effort, assuming the 

laptop could handle the workload. Waiter's program could also be very 

useful for JG in his tuft testing if he has an EFIS. He would just need a 

sync at some point between his data log and his video to have complete 

correlation between the video and the flight data.



Terry

At 05:06 PM 1/15/2008 -0800, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Scott,

Viewing your video from the rudder cam I've noticed some 

interference.  Some looks like a poor cable connection while some appears 

to come from another source.  I wonder if radio transmissions from the 

plane are somehow interfering with the video signal.



Regarding a webcam - with a long enough cable you could connect directly 

to a laptop, however - a full resolution video signal burns up about a gig 

of video every 5 minutes so you'd need to make sure you had the hard drive 

space.



Tim


	




Terry Phillips

ttp44~at~rkymtn.net

Corvallis MT

601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail is finished; working on the wings

http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/

_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings.

Martin Pohl

Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 118
Location: CH-8645 Jona SG, Switzerland

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:45 am Post subject: Re: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight!

Scott, first of all congratulations to the first flights of your wonderful machine!!!



I saw on the movie that right after liftoff for about 5 seconds, there is quite some amount of pitch changing. Is that camera related or some sort of slight PIO? Good to know perhaps for the ones that will go for their first flights on their own.



Cheers Martin

CH601XL "HB-YNA"

_________________
Martin Pohl
Zodiac XL QBK
8645 Jona, Switzerland
http://www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL/Main.html

cookwithgas

Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 159

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:38 am Post subject: Re: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight!

Martin:



Nope, that was real.  It was the first time the guy had flown a 601XL and although I warned him about the sensitive pitch he didn't realize how sensitive it was.  I wish I would have had a video camera in hand because I was standing by the runway, but it scared me so bad I probably would have dropped the camera.  He managed to get up with out scraping a wing but it was close!  



I put that takeoff in the video on purpose so Ron (the pilot) could see it.  We got a good laugh afterwards but it was pretty scary at the time.  His second takeoff was perfect as well as both landings.  



Thanks for the email. 



Scott Laughlin

Omaha, Nebraska

www.cooknwithgas.com

601XL/Corvair #17

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:32 am Post subject: Re: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight!

Cool, I like it.



One thing, it appears as though on landing the nose comes down pretty quick. I think other people have noted this one their XLs as well. Is it fairly difficult to hold the nose up once the mains hit?



 	  cookwithgas wrote: 	
		  Martin:



Nope, that was real.  It was the first time the guy had flown a 601XL and although I warned him about the sensitive pitch he didn't realize how sensitive it was.  I wish I would have had a video camera in hand because I was standing by the runway, but it scared me so bad I probably would have dropped the camera.  He managed to get up with out scraping a wing but it was close!  



I put that takeoff in the video on purpose so Ron (the pilot) could see it.  We got a good laugh afterwards but it was pretty scary at the time.  His second takeoff was perfect as well as both landings.  



Thanks for the email. 



Scott Laughlin

Omaha, Nebraska

www.cooknwithgas.com

601XL/Corvair #17

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